need your input

Ok, here is the story.
I had a client messaging me 4 months ago concerning a design... as his was particuliar, he asked me if i would refund him if he didn't like it... i don't know why but i said yes. Anyway, i made the first page... and showed him and he's like "Awesome, great, looks very nice... go on with the tours..."... so then i take it that the reimbursement is out of question for the moment he asked me to go on... ok so i make the 2 tours, join page, and banners... suddenly after everything is done... i get an email saying that his partners doesn't like it so they want their money back! WHAT THE FUCK? that's making me mad.. i haven't paid him back yet. I don't want to have bad publicity from this guy but i don't think i should reimburse him... if he had told me "ok the first page is not good, please give me the money back", i would have understood but not after letting me do the whole thing. What do you think i should do? Just wanted your advices :)
Thanks

I think you need to ask yourself what is easier.

If you tell him you're not giving his money back (and you'd be justified in saying so) then you're going to go back and forth in e-mail and on phone with him, his partners, lawyers (maybe) and it'll drag on forever, which will affect your ability to create new designs for new clients.

If you just give him his money back (even though he's wrong to ask for it) he'll disappear and so will this problem.

You've already lost the design time, do you really want to lose another few hours writing e-mails and taking phone calls?

Take this situation as a learning experience. You've already admitted it was a mistake to agree to his terms, so next time someone says that, give them different terms.

Dzinerbear

Hi Scorpio, i had more or less the same problem once... it's a very delicate situation. I would suggest you to give him the money back and not to make deals with him or his company anymore unless you specify your conditions very clear prior to start working with him or anybody else. Forget about that untrustworthy person :) if you fight for your rights it will only cause you trouble.
regards,
Lunae

I hate to admit it, but your only mistake was saying that you'd do it on speck. I've made that mistake more than once, and I always regret it.

It seems that there's always somebody out there to scam you out of your time and money. Often what they want is free work, or extra work for free or something.

It's usually big companies that do it (I've had huge problems with Universal, EMI and Sony), but I've had a few small guys try to get more for free.

In our business, where our reputation is everything, we've gotta do whatever we can to protect that, and these guys know it.

Pay the guy back, fair or not, and take the lesson that undeer no circumstances will you do work on spec again.

Sorry.

I'm not going to write a lot here.

Everyone here has basically said same thing I would have, Scorpio.

It really sucks that this client did this, but you're better served to just refund him and move on. Chalk this one up to experience.

If you hadn't agreed to the refund, then I would be taking a different tone. Just be sure he doesn't have any psd files. If he does, then before you send a refund get a signed statement that he will not use any aspects of the design you submitted.

Gary-Alan

Hi everybody.. thanks for your inputs.
What i can't understand is the fact that i agreed to a refund only if he didn't like the first page... i mean it's common sense! You don't expect a refund after you said "Great design, on on with tours...".. and then once the WHOLE site is done, you change your mind. A refund would have been ok if he had told me NO i don't like it right after the first page... oh well.
Anyway, thanks guys for your inputs... i just sent him his money back. It's not worth my time. :)
From now on.... NO FUCKING REFUNDS!! nah i said it :)

Steve,


Shoot me an ICQ babe ;)

Regards,

Lee

That's why I'd suggest you get everything in writing.
If you agree to the money back exchange or that provision is stipulated in the contract (blech!), then you'd be better served getting written approval at varying intervals to proceed.
You finish up the tour and send it to him. He agrees and likes it. So you get something in writing from him saying that he's given the go-ahead to proceed with the design.
Finish the first tour page? Send it off to him and get approval to proceed. Next page? Again. Join page? Again.
It may seem a bit tedious but it best serves both you and the client in that it removes a great deal of misunderstanding and confusion, CYOA, and ensures they're cool with what's going on at every step.

But with regards to your current client with whom your having problems? Might be best to just do whatever it is you have to do so as to ensure your not having to deal with em anymore.

Sorry you got jerked around Scorpio. I agree with others here though about a refund and let it go. My guess is they wanted to see what you'd do and probably have someone in house copying the concept. Probably even gave you a fake url for title so you couldn't track down that possibility later. ... a right hand pat on back that they like your work, while the left hand is stealing you blind.

I don't know what you're using for contracts ... if you aren't using one, I'd get one drafted. That way you have some legal recourse. Make them return a signed copy either by snail mail or fax before putting one pixel of color to a design.

Hugs
Bec

Thanks LdyLnWolf1 and BDBionic.
In my terms, it is stipulated that there are NO REFUNDS so if i wanted to be a ass, i could have said that i never agreed to a refund in anyway but oh well... money is sent and i don't have to deal with it anymore. That'll teach me to be nice :)

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That'll teach me to be nice :)

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Awww hon ... don't go there!

I know that being nice often looks like an open invitation to nail us to a cross ... but you also need to believe that what goes around comes around ... and usually tenfold.

Big Hug

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Originally posted by LdyLnWolf1
but you also need to believe that what goes around comes around ... and usually tenfold.

Big Hug

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Words to live by, Bec!

Hugs,
GA

Yeah it's true... in this case, ya'll wouldn't believe what i'm wishing for him :) hehehe

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Originally posted by Scorpio
Yeah it's true... in this case, ya'll wouldn't believe what i'm wishing for him :) hehehe

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Oh, I dunno -- I have a pretty good imagination! LOL

Just glad I ain't him!!

well it includes: HIM, the santa claus from the other thread, toilet paper and a knife :) hahaha

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Originally posted by Scorpio
well it includes: HIM, the santa claus from the other thread, toilet paper and a knife :) hahaha

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Yikes! Now I'm REALLY glad I ain't him!!!

;) Glad we got you to chuckle abit over this though! Now go design something awesome!

hahaha :) thanks
Yes should be interesting... a website for celphones :) Never heard of that one before but hey there is a first time for anything :)

Sounds like the tgp sites that are catering to the palm pilot users ... hit me up on ICQ 324131348 if you'd like me to toss over some links to get a better idea of what's going on out there with it.

Scorpio, Here's a little something for that shit-head - Meka, meka-hi,meka-hiney-ho! There that should fix 'em!

hahaha thanks dallahb1ll :) So what's gonna happen to him?

Hi Scorpio. Well, here's my two sense worth and it might not be popular, but I'm known for telling it like I see it.

I would NOT refund his money IF it was, as you say, expressly understood that the refund was only good on the first page and after he approved that page your standard no refund policy would be in place. Since there is nothing in writing he wouldn't have a case against you anyway because of the fact that you have a no refund policy. Kind of hard for him to convince a judge that you agreed to a refund if he doesn't have it in writing and you can prove that you have a no refund policy in your contract.

We have been debating a similar situation on another board, but in that case the company has a full money back gurantee posted on their site but has refused in three cases that I know of to refund the client's money after they asked for it. That is a clear cut case of fraud.

I say, stand your ground and keep your money. Put all the work you've done on CD and ship it to him registered mail so you have proof that you mailed it. I seriously doubt that he will take you to court and if he tries to make trouble for you online or with the BBB he won't get any support.

The fact that I think others who have replied in this thread are not considering is that when someone hires a designer they should be doing so based on a referral or the fact that they like what they saw in our porfolio. If a client is unhappy with the initial designs then we rework them until they are happy. It doesn't sound to me like this client told you that his partners didn't like the design and asked you to make some modifications. He simply said, they don't like it, give us our money back. Here's what I have to say about that... BULLSHIT!

See, i'm with you on that one. This was totally bullshit... From the moment he said "ok go with the tours" i take it as "We take the site, no refund". But oh well, the others are right about wasting my time though... and i don't want something like this to go to the boards because even if i am right, you know there are some assholes that will still badmouth me for that and i don't need that :)
So i refund the guy to get over it... I'll jsut be more careful from now on with ABSOLUTELY NO REFUND so take your business elsewhere... simple as that :) But thanks everybody for your inputs...

Heya:

I wouldn't refund his money at all! As you know, webmasters keep getting #$$&^$& around! He's obviously a player. I know from experience as I owned eburin.com.

my 2 cents

Hi Leolion and thanks for your opinions ;)

no problem scorpio! don't mean to sound bitter but been in this business for about 6 years:) great meeting you

hugs

Rob

oh don't worry :) i've been around for quite a while now :) just never dealt with people like these before.
;) Nice to meet you also :)

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Originally posted by leolion80
no problem scorpio! don't mean to sound bitter but been in this business for about 6 years:)

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Bitter... you? I'm not saying a word.

LMAOPIP

Love ya, rob! hehehehehehehe

Hugs,
GA