(potentially?) controversial topic - Sponsors vs Affiliates

[Squirt]

I was shocked when I saw the MAXIMIMUM 8.5% commission that Amazon.com offers it's affiliates. In their affiliates section they boast about having the program active since 1996 and affiliates making Amazon.com what it is today.

I'm stunned when I see other adult sponsor programs that offer $40 or more per sale to affiliates.

This just goes to show that sponsor and affiliate partnerships are dynamic and driven by market demand, amongst other things. All things considered, the adult industry has a flock mentality to the latest and greatest or biggest and best thing.

I don't think an affiliate partner should be indebted to me for working with me, that's rediculous. Big programs can afford to pay 50% to affiliates, smaller programs don't mind paying 50% because they get traffic they most likely wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Affiliates and sponsors are in a partnership. I don't know why you're trying to cause conflict or friction between affiliates and sponsors. If the company you work for, Corbin Fisher, is to cheap to pay affiliates 50% then don't. Wanna be elitist sponsors, and affiliates, are a waste of everyones time. They think their shit don't stink and start putting conditions on everyone, and taking more of everyones time, for less long term return. Every hot site gets old after a while and every good affiliate is constantly fighting to stay in rank. Sponsor and affiliate partnerships are good for all involved and a 50/50 split is fair.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

Affiliates and sponsors are in a partnership. I don't know why you're trying to cause conflict or friction between affiliates and sponsors. If the company you work for, Corbin Fisher, is to cheap to pay affiliates 50% then don't. Wanna be elitist sponsors, and affiliates, are a waste of everyones time. They think their shit don't stink and start putting conditions on everyone, and taking more of everyones time, for less long term return. Every hot site gets old after a while and every good affiliate is constantly fighting to stay in rank. Sponsor and affiliate partnerships are good for all involved and a 50/50 split is fair.

It's not about causing conflict.

It's simply a business decision.

Is an affiliate that sends us 1 sale a month sending us a sale we could not otherwise get ourselves? I don't think so. And so, we close off our affiliate program to the 100 (out of 1400) affiliates that send 95% of all affiliate signups because we feel that distributing that remaining 5% amongst ourselves and our top 100 affiliates is better for us and them.

Some people seem to think higher and higher and higher payout commissions is the only good way to appeal to affiliates.

I decided here that what was best for us and our top-producing affiliates was a more streamlined affiliate program in which those that produce the best get access to the entire pie, so to speak. A top affiliate is now one of the only affiliates, the only places that can promote our site, the only places displaying any free content we provide, the only places sending folk through their referral codes, so on.

It's about investing more in those quality affiliates, rather than distributing evenly through all affiliates, potentially at the expense of those that are doing the most for you.

[Xstr8guy]

Is an affiliate that sends us 1 sale a month sending us a sale we could not otherwise get ourselves? I don't think so. And so, we close off our affiliate program to the 100 (out of 1400) affiliates that send 95% of all affiliate signups because we feel that distributing that remaining 5% amongst ourselves and our top 100 affiliates is better for us and them.

OUCH! Kick out 1300 of your affiliates? The backlash would be enormous! How about just closing the program to new affiliates and just actively recruiting new big-traffic guys instead?

[Lee]

OUCH! Kick out 1300 of your affiliates? The backlash would be enormous! How about just closing the program to new affiliates and just actively recruiting new big-traffic guys instead?

Jim,

Why? Its easier to work with the top performers you already have in a program than to go out and recruit top performers from another program.

After all, if your current top performers are happy making 50% of each sale and rebill, why try getting a top performer from a PPS program thats going to cost you more than what you are currently paying out? It just doesnt make sense from a profit standpoint.

Regards,

Lee

[Xstr8guy]

Jim,

Why? Its easier to work with the top performers you already have in a program than to go out and recruit top performers from another program.

After all, if your current top performers are happy making 50% of each sale and rebill, why try getting a top performer from a PPS program thats going to cost you more than what you are currently paying out? It just doesnt make sense from a profit standpoint.

Regards,

Lee

Geez, I'm not talking about blowing someone just so they'll join your program. Lol. I'm just merely suggesting that you drop someone an email and ask them if they are interested in becoming an affiliate. It worked for us.

If you offer a quality product, people will want a piece of the action AND you won't have to bend over backwards to make them happy

[Lee]

Geez, I'm not talking about blowing someone just so they'll join your program. Lol. I'm just merely suggesting that you drop someone an email and ask them if they are interested in becoming an affiliate. It worked for us.

If you offer a quality product, people will want a piece of the action AND you won't have to bend over backwards to make them happy

Again, we're talking about top producing affiliates here, ones that can send 50-100 sales a week, ones that are already being paid on a PPS business model.

Simply emailing them and saying 'hey we offer 50% of all sales and rebills and all this promo stuff' isnt going to work for them.

Regards,

Lee

[CorbinFisher_BD]

If you offer a quality product, people will want a piece of the action AND you won't have to bend over backwards to make them happy

Ideally, that's definitely how it should be.

Unfortunately I think a lot of affiliates are not like that. Many newer affiliates entering in to an environment in which 50% is the base paradigm end up demanding even more. I actually have a little folder in my email that contains 8 emails from affiliates who I either emailed asking if they'd be interested in promoting us or that emailed me before or after signing up for our program (and before they'd sent a single surfer) saying they'd only promote us if we started them out at 65%.

:eek:

I kept the emails in case I ever wanted to contact them again (but haven't done that).

A lot come around saying "I want more than 50%" because 50% is the starting point, pretty much. It might as well be 0% in the eyes of many. PPS amounts get higher and higher, %'s offered get higher and higher, all because the bar keeps going up and up and up in trying to appeal to webmasters.

At the same time, I think a lot of this actually hurts adult sites' over ability to convert. When the structure and format of a site is manipulated or set up in ways to benefit affiliate webmasters but that burn surfers (the popups, exit consoles, overwhelming upsells and such that might be necessary to justify or enable massive PPS amounts along with raised signup fees to make for higher affiliate commission amounts, pricing structures that may make surfers wary or uncomfortable, so on so on)

[desslock]

Interestingly no one has even really put their finger on the basics of our profession. Why do adult membership sites pay us 50% on sales? Whereas, why does Amazon only pays me a mere 7.5% on sales of the Almanac of American Politics?

Affiliates are compensated for their marketing effort. We are marketers, not franchisees, not tricksters manipulating the web.

Why do adult affiliate programs pay 50%, while mainstream programs pay much less? The reason is because their marketing costs and values are higher. Why is it higher? Because of the rules of supply and demand.

When Stephen King or John Grisham write a new book, they have about 10 million more marketing options than Corbin Fisher, Randy Blue or Falcon Studios.
They can appear on Oprah, Larry King or NPR. Matthew Lesko can sell his crazy books via middle of the night cable TV. Sony can put its products in the new James Bond movie.

Adult companies are far more restricted in their promotion options. Thus, the cost of their marketing is higher. (the rules of supply and demand) This is also why VISA can charge that magic $750 to adult companies.

In the adult world, costs are higher, but so are potential profits.

Keep that in mind when looking at Brian's two initial questions: "Is that really only worth 50% compared to the effort of an affiliate who may or may not have done anything more than just throw up a banner on their site and happened to send a surfer your way? should all be getting 50% or these huge PPS? "

and

"As a sponsor, do you look at every referred sale and think "There was no way I could have gotten that sale myself, and so eagerly pay out that 50% or huge PPS chunk"?"

One additional note: If you are unhappy with affiliates making unworthy money from pop-ups or exit consoles then PROHIBIT THEM. Make use of your terms and conditions. I've mentioned often how practically non-existent terms and conditions are in the adult affiliate world. Wall Street Journal's affiliate terms prohibit me from buying Google Ads in their name, promoting them in emails and in many other areas.

Steve

[CorbinFisher_BD]

OUCH! Kick out 1300 of your affiliates? The backlash would be enormous! How about just closing the program to new affiliates and just actively recruiting new big-traffic guys instead?

I actually think the backlash is acceptable. You'd be amazed how many people have come up to actually express how impressed they were with the decision and how they wish they were in the position to do the same.

You have to understand, of those 1300 that will be leaving probably 800 haven't even sent a sale in a year. The cost of losing the remaining ones that do sent the occasional sale, along with any backlash, is far-outweighed by the benefits of doing it all.

Mind you, I'd not suggest every sponsor program try the same thing. Obviously people should look at their numbers and situation and it's up to them. But I think it will benefit us in the long run - the long run not being too far off in the future, even.

[Lee]

Is an affiliate that sends us 1 sale a month sending us a sale we could not otherwise get ourselves? I don't think so.

Plus, that additional 1 signup is going to cost a program owner a LOT less than 50% of the sale value that the affiliate would have been paid

Regards,

Lee

[Xstr8guy]

I guess UKnakedmen.com is an unique position. Our affiliate program was "invite only" until recently. The original invitees are extremely productive and send high-quality traffic that converts very well. The affiliates that joined after we opened up the affiliate program don't send nearly as much traffic but it converts well.

And opening up the program hasn't added any additional labor or cost on our end. So what's the big deal? No one has demanded anything unreasonable. And if an affiliate did ask for something unreasonable, we just wouldn't comply. Simple.

[Paco]

Oh, here I go, again:
- Many webmasters seem to think sponsors would be lost without their traffic.
- Many seem to think sponsors owe them, and should be extremely grateful for the MUTUAL relationship. (Many seem to treat their sending us, traffic and us paying them for it, as a huge favour from them.)
- All webmasters have a different opinion of what a lot of traffic is.
- Many webmasters do not live-up to the title web master. (how do I build a gallery; how do I resize a thumb; how do I acquire traffic; where do I put banners - and the hits keep rolling on out[slash]et cetera et cetera et cetera). I am not joking about the questions/e-mails I get.

~ Many seem to forget that sponsors also know how to, and do, market their sites.
~ Many do not realize that 1000 RAWs/day is merely the start point for the phrase "a fair amount of traffic" - never mind "a lot" or "a ton"!
~ Many forget we pay them more than we receive. We pay $35-40 on a $29.95 join. Do the fucking math, genius!
~ Many webmasters like pushing their luck because they believe sponsors will always grab their ankles for them.

A webmaster actually had the tubes (balls) to submit her list of demands to me: if you expect me to continue to send you the large amount of traffic that I have been, you MUST...

She was sending 1-2 clicks per day, which were quite often the worse kind of uniques - she was clicking her own links.
I tried to inform her, politely, that she must have confused us with another sponsor whom she's been sending the "large amount" to because we've only seen 1-2/day since day 'x'.

She got extremely mad and threatened to take it to the boards.
I gave her the link to GFY and I closed her account!

The webmasters that send the lower amounts tend to ask for the world, while those delivering by the wheel barrel & dump truck loads (usually sponsors) never ask for a freaking thing!

Last month we sent 100-joins to A site (yah, it a big dicker), and not once did I ask for any of the outrageous things th@ :crazy: web "master" asked for (exclusive to her content which must be watermarked with her ... HER ... flipping site logo, which was larger than ours).

Okay, I lied - I asked for two things: a). please, do NOT give us the higher payout (I do not think that is proper), and b). please, turn off all "specials", "bonus days", "contests" etc (I do not think they are proper).

I wish some of the head-in-the-clouds webmasters would try their hand at marketing mainstream products (nothing @ all to do with the "adult" world) so they can realize just how sweet things are for them.

Oh man, WTF am I going on about! I am merely a :paco: whom works for an affiliate program that steals sales and traffic (or so a lot of ArtBell'ish WM like to think).

Some webmaster like to think there will only be one or two organizations that control/run/sponsor/offer adult sites.

I think it is going to the exact opposite!

[Lee]

The webmasters that send the lower amounts tend to ask for the world, while those delivering by the wheel barrel & dump truck loads (usually sponsors) never ask for a freaking thing!

Just wanted to quote that because despite what some may think, its the truth LOL

Although to be fair, the sponsors that are able to send out lots of traffic are only able to do so primarily because they have pandered their affiliates.

Regards,

Lee

[Paco]

Just wanted to quote that because despite what some may think, its the truth LOL
Although to be fair, the sponsors that are able to send out lots of traffic are only able to do so primarily because they have pandered their affiliates.
Regards,
Lee

before the others correct you: you meant to say pilfered from..., right?

[CorbinFisher_BD]

The webmasters that send the lower amounts tend to ask for the world, while those delivering by the wheel barrel & dump truck loads (usually sponsors) never ask for a freaking thing!

So true.

The webmasters that ask for the least don't need such handholding by the sponsor because they already have a very developed business model, experience, know what they're doing, have been successful at building up their own sites and traffic bases, and are extremely able - on their own - to know what sells for them and how to make money for themselves.

I think a big reason a lot of affiliates that feel most threatened by the prospect of sponsor programs no longer bending over backwards for them are threatened mainly because they realize their gravy train might just stop rolling. Relative to what larger affiliates and sponsors are up to, they're living on easy street.

Many seem to think sponsors owe them, and should be extremely grateful for the MUTUAL relationship. (Many seem to treat their sending us, traffic and us paying them for it, as a huge favour from them.)

That's another thing.

If a sponsor doesn't convert well for an affiliate, that affiliate will drop that sponsor in an instant. Of course they will. They have every right to drop that sponsor like a bad habit.

But when sponsors talk about dropping affiliates, people start screaming bloody murder. For a sponsor to drop an affiliate that doesn't produce for them is heresy!