"Totally Straight Fags"... offensive?

[KarenJ]

Everyone, thanks so much for your thoughts on this. It's pretty much confirmed what I was thinking. I was wondering if "fag" had achieved the same acceptance status as "queer" but obviously not, and I'm kind of glad. It's so often used in a negative way that it's the last thing you'd want to use on a paysite which is there to turn someone on.

I think another reason why this was bugging me is because it is another example of a big company screwing up the niche. I've seen it plenty of times in the 4women niche so it's almost reassuring in a perverse way to know it's not just me who has to roll my eyes.

Despite my mountains of male content I haven't done gay sites in the past because I was always worried that my language wouldn't be right. Being a straight woman trying to do gay sites is a bit of a hurdle, I thought. But I see by this that my "gaydar" is a little bit on track, if nothing else

Oh, one more thing... where does everybody stand on the word "faghag"?

[Jasun]

Oddly enough "Fag Hag" has managed to transcend the word "Fag" and become an "almost" acceptable thing to say.

Again, it's something that I'd never say in public or outside of a joke amongst friends, but it doesn't carry the sting that "fag" does.

[DonMike]

When I first came out, I told a straight guy I was very close to that I was gay. He got all excited and said, "do you know what this means???" Okay, the answer could really have been anything but I was a good boy and simply said "what?". He replied, "You can use the word "fag" and not get in trouble!!!" LOL!

We use the word lightly with each other to disempower it. It has been used against us for so long that by using it with each other, it takes some of the sting out of our memories of it being used against us in the past. It does not, however, make hearing it now any easier. Regardless of the fact that it is just a word, it's usage means that someone hates us so much that they want to say something that will hurt us the most, and without knowing us as people they have to resort to a word that is universally known to be hurtful.

I used to live with a straight couple back in Pittsburgh. I was friends with the girl when I moved in but did not know her boyfriend very well. He was homophobic and I did everything I could to get him to feel comfortable around me. I try not to be thin skinned when it comes to gay jokes and such, hell, I even make them myself, so I often took his ribbing with a grain of salt. When he heard me refer to myself as a "fag" in conversation once, he figured it was okay to use it around me, as if I had given him some sort of permission to use it. The problem was not that he was using this word, the problem was in the way he used it. Words are like money. If I make a dollar bill, it's not worth anything because there is nothing to back it up. But the money that is printed by the US mint has value because of the gold that backs it up. When this guy referred to me as a "fag" or "faggot", he was not using the term with any ironic affection, he took it as an excuse to demean me in a way that he thought he could get away with.

This is why most gay people do not like straight people to use this word. It's not that we don't trust every straight person to use it correctly, but because there will always be people who don't, and those are the ones who ruin it for everyone.

[Marc]

btw if I was one of those models on the site I would demand my pics be taken down or I'd sue.
Id be bullshit if a photographer put my face on the internet with the word Fag next to it.

[Squirt]

Fag is a negative term used by straight people to objectify those in the Gay community.

Fag is rarely used in the Gay community, and when it is, it's used jokingly from one Gay person to another, describing them as doing something very stereotypically Gay.

The term Fag, in relation to this site, isn't in sync with how it's used in the Gay community.

[Squirt]

btw if I was one of those models on the site I would demand my pics be taken down or I'd sue.
Id be bullshit if a photographer put my face on the internet with the word Fag next to it.

That's a good point but it's important to remember that the straight porn community, in general, berates the sexual partner by calling them sluts, whores, bitches, hoes etc. Maybe straight men in the industry, in general, are just used to relating to sexual partners in a demeaning way? This is just an observation and not an insult in any way to our straight partners here. I'm just trying to work out the psychology of why demeaning names seem to keep popping up.

[basschick]

for me, the site title sure came off as

a. offensive and
b. stupid

ars apparently doesn't consider "fag" to be hate speech, as they allowed this byot owner to use it. i wonder if they allow the n word...

ars also allowed a byot called centerfolds, and playboy already won a case against someone for using that term. i'm not sure how much attention they are paying to the new byot titles overall.

[Slade]

Just so there is a balanced "debate" here for BOTH sides of this issue..

First there was the word "GAY" and it went from objectionable to acceptable.

Then came "QUEER" and the same thing happened.

I think the same will happen with "Fag".

I'm not as offended about this word as most of you are.

[Jasun]

That's a good point but it's important to remember that the straight porn community, in general, berates the sexual partner by calling them sluts, whores, bitches, hoes etc. Maybe straight men in the industry, in general, are just used to relating to sexual partners in a demeaning way? This is just an observation and not an insult in any way to our straight partners here. I'm just trying to work out the psychology of why demeaning names seem to keep popping up.

You know, I think you're more right than wrong.. it kinda goes back to what Dzinerbear was saying about how this site was so obviously done by clueless straight company with no gay people working there and no gay consultant.

Who remembers "Guys Who Gag"? The title wasn't that horrible, but the copy text was just over-the-top with it's totally offensive language. They claimed they were making a fortune and converting like crazy, but two months later it was nowhere to be found.

gay guys can smell that coming from 500 miles away.

[KarenJ]

Re: the constant use of demeaning names in porn. It's one of the things that bugs me about a lot of the porn industry. So much adult content is predicated on the idea that sex has to be a power play, and the woman (most often) is the inferior partner. Reality sites take this premise and run with it. I realise I sound a bit Dworkinesque here but too often it's true, and I think it's a shame. As has been mentioned, this "fag" thing may stem from that mindset. Certainly the site in question is following the reality line of conning people into sex, something that I've always thought was distasteful.

I'm quite certain that there are heaps of surfers - gay and straight - out there who are sick of this kind of negativity and looking for something better.

By the way, I've just remembered a 1982 song by Joe Jackson called "Real Men" with a line that says "So don't call me a faggot, not unless you are a friend..." So I guess this isn't a new discussion

[basschick]

when i first ran away to hollywood in 1972, "fag" was already both a pejorative term and something the most effeminate men would scream at passers-by on the way to the gold cup.

[Lee]

Personally, i think using the word gives it somewhat of a status, lets not forget too, that its not just straight companies that use this word, i beleive it was at last years Internext show one of the panels was going to be called 'Fag FAQ' until several of us contacted AVN and aired our disgust that they would use such wording for something that was geared towards the gay market.

Regards,

Lee