The Queen Returns

[Jasun]

I don't know.. I've seen Maiden a few times and they never did anything like that... the most theatrical thing they did was have some flames and a guy in an 8-foot Zombie suit.

Gwar does the stuffr with blood (although it's all really corn syrup and stuff..) and impaling people on spears. To my knowledge, Maiden never did anything like that. Maybe your rock-dweeb boyfriend called them by the wrong name. And yes, GWAR sucks.

Maybe Maiden were different in the late 70s.

anyway, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this, I think.

[XXXWriterDude]

I don't know.. I've seen Maiden a few times and they never did anything like that... the most theatrical thing they did was have some flames and a guy in an 8-foot Zombie suit.

Gwar does the stuffr with blood (although it's all really corn syrup and stuff..) and impaling people on spears. To my knowledge, Maiden never did anything like that. Maybe your rock-dweeb boyfriend called them by the wrong name. And yes, GWAR sucks.

Maybe Maiden were different in the late 70s.

anyway, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this, I think.

I suppose so, but I know my music, and this guy was an Iron Maiden FREAK. That was his band. That's like all he listened to for the most part, so I know I'm not mistaking it with anyone else. I remember watching the video and being horrified. Of course, Brad was smiling the whole time, knowing I was covering my eyes from fright. Haha.

I actually like a bit of metal, depending on the band. But I think the hardest I go is Guns 'N' Roses, back when they were still a GOOD band. But the more loud and insistent the music is, the less and less I like it. I like melody and stuff that you can sing along to, not screaming and macho posturing.

[Jasun]

I actually like a bit of metal, depending on the band. But I think the hardest I go is Guns 'N' Roses, back when they were still a GOOD band. But the more loud and insistent the music is, the less and less I like it. I like melody and stuff that you can sing along to, not screaming and macho posturing.

not too much of a fan of that, either.. although I've never thought of Gunz'r'Roses as a "metal" band. They're in that same category of "Hard Rock" like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Zakk Wylde.

Most of the metal I listen to is quite melodic, actually.

[DonMike]

I'm not down on big Hollywood movies, but at the same time it's a whole different ballgame when you talk about indie movies. At this point in time you would never see a major Hollywood studio do a movie like Edge of 17 or Boy's Don't Cry. Can you imagine a teen film like "She's All That" or "10 Things I Hate About You" with the main character being a gay teen? Hardly.

There's nothing wrong with Hollywood movies, but they have to pander to the largest audience possible. Ever try to cook for 20 people? You might start out with some really exotic dishes, but by the time you take everyone's dietary habits into consideration, you run the risk of making something that not everyone there will enjoy, or doing something a little more standard, and by the book so that everyone can basically have something they can all agree on. I kind of like seeing a movie that might not appeal to everyone from the hipsters in LA to the small town folk of Middle Amercia. But hey, I still like to eat popsicles, like Jasun said, and go and see a Hollywood movie. It's just not something I choose to make my main course.

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, just stating my views.

[XXXWriterDude]

I'm not down on big Hollywood movies, but at the same time it's a whole different ballgame when you talk about indie movies. At this point in time you would never see a major Hollywood studio do a movie like Edge of 17 or Boy's Don't Cry. Can you imagine a teen film like "She's All That" or "10 Things I Hate About You" with the main character being a gay teen? Hardly.

That's true, but of course, this year we have Brokeback Mountain coming out, and, while Focus Features is not what one would call a Hollywood powerhouse, it is certainly shaping up to be one of the biggest indie movie studios in town. Then again, scratch that; it's actually owned by Universal Pictures.

[Jasun]

Maybe we should start a whole other thread about why I'm not going to Brokeback mountain.

[XXXWriterDude]

not too much of a fan of that, either.. although I've never thought of Gunz'r'Roses as a "metal" band. They're in that same category of "Hard Rock" like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Zakk Wylde.

Most of the metal I listen to is quite melodic, actually.

Yeah, I think hard rock is pretty much as far as I can tread on that side of the musical movement. I'm more the Hole/Nirvana/Queens of the Stone Age/Zepplin kinda ilk. The louder it gets, the more I run from it.

See how it feels to have something you hold near and dear to your heart unfairly maligned and misunderstood?

[XXXWriterDude]

Maybe we should start a whole other thread about why I'm not going to Brokeback mountain.

Hmmmm, well, that would be your loss, seeing as how it's one of the most brave, daring and humane movies I've seen in a long time, next to Crash.

[Jasun]

I understand pop music, I just don't really like it much.

[Jasun]

Hmmmm, well, that would be your loss, seeing as how it's one of the most brave, daring and humane movies I've seen in a long time, next to Crash.

I've seen enough gay romantic tragedies, thanks.. I just don't wanna sit there are watch two guys fall in love and then have to wait for the inevibale "I'm going back to girls" and the sad ending that comes with it. And I've only liked one Ang Lee movie, and that was a comedy.

Looking forward to Harry Potter and Narina, though.

[XXXWriterDude]

I understand pop music, I just don't really like it much.

Well, to take it back to the original thread, Madonna may use pop music as her medium, but she is by far much more than just a simple pop musician. She's NOTHING like Britney or Christina; she's had a mission since day one. She doesn't just sing silly, badly written pop songs about love and strut around like some trashy little shameless tart like Britney. I hate it when these little pop tarts say they want to be the next Madonna. It's obvious they never actually paid any attention to what she was doing at all, b/cuz they don't display even an iota of the chutzpah or the social activism Madonna championed.

I really don't think that most people recognize just how incredibly influential and instrumental Madonna has been to not only pop music, but to social change. She got the country talking and debating about issues like promiscuity, homosexuality, lesbianism, feminism and sexual repression. Her career has been instrumental in opening people's minds about these very topics. That's why I say, love her or hate her, there's no denying that she's made huge strides for not only women in rock, pop music and music in general, but for the advancement of freer thinking. That's why I think certain artists--pop or not--really have the power to influence the world through their work. Madonna did that. And regardless of what some may think about some of the work itself, the result is certainly evident. And it's all good.

For me, when I was 14, I was horribly fucked up. I was sexually repressed in an abusive household in which sexuality was never talked about, and Madonna literally swept into my life via the television and gave me a crash-course education in personal liberation and freedom. I connected to her in a way I had never connected to any other artist. Women are traditionally trained not to express sexuality, lest they be labeled as a slut. For Madonna to break such social conventions was revolutionary for many, including me. I still hadn't come out until I was 20, which was when I saw Truth or Dare. And I personally never cared that the dancers in her movie all behaved like catty queens. I knew people who were just like that, and you're not going to find all that many "straight-acting" gay guys in the dancing world.

I mean, you take the video for "Like a Prayer," a bold and daring statement about racism in America and the way that organized religion has sanctioned it, and it's impossible--at least for me--to dismiss her as just a pop artist, or even as someone who only churns out "drek." Madonna has never turned out anything even close to drek. Drek would be Debbie Gibson or Tiffany or New Kids on the Block or Color Me Badd. Certainly Madonna would not fall into that category. I just don't think she gets the credit she deserves. I think most people, for whatever reason, just react to her, and they judge everything she does by their feelings about her rather than on the merits of the work itself. I can list many examples of unfair criticism that people readily heap upon Madonna that they would never say about one of their favorite artists who is guilty of exactly the same transgression.

But people always resent artists who are incredibly succcessful and who aren't afraid to make bold artistic statements. I see it all the time. People HATE Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon now for the same reasons. Won't go see any of their movies because they find them to be "personally annoying." (Like they know them personally.) The same with U2. Once Bono started getting vocal, people started criticizing the music more harshly.

See, "good taste" dictates, to me, that people are discerning with their taste, true, but also it says that people with such taste also acknowledge that, even if a particular artist or genre of music doesn't speak to them personally, one can still recognize the merits of that artist or genre of music. And I honestly think that anyone with truly good taste would recognize the cultural significance of Madonna's career and the value found in her music. Again, even her harshest critics usually concede that she's been incredibly instrumental in pop music. Just one look at me--someone whose world was changed because of Madonna--is proof of this. And I'm not the only one. Which is why you can't argue with a true Madonna fan.

[XXXWriterDude]

I've seen enough gay romantic tragedies, thanks.. I just don't wanna sit there are watch two guys fall in love and then have to wait for the inevibale "I'm going back to girls" and the sad ending that comes with it.

Huh??? Is that what you think the movie is about? Interesting. You know that it set in 1960, when gay people living openly gay lives was unheard of, right? And, while the film is definitely bittersweet and there is no happy ending, it is an incredibly hopeful movie in the long run. You've got it all wrong.

And I've only liked one Ang Lee movie, and that was a comedy.

OK, well, I personally think that's blasphemy, but OK. LOL! Dude, Crouching Tiger! Sense and Sensibility! The Wedding Banquet. Brilliantly conceived and executed films, every one of them. I think he's one of our greatest directors around.

Looking forward to Harry Potter and Narina, though.

Same here, though I'm very hesitant about Narnia. It's one of my favorite children's books, and it would be so easy to destroy it.

[Jasun]

And, while the film is definitely bittersweet and there is no happy ending, it is an incredibly hopeful movie in the long run. You've got it all wrong.

I've read the short story. I don't have it wrong. I get it that it's set in the 60s and everything. But I dont' wanna sit there and wait to see whatsisname get his heart broken.

Dude, Crouching Tiger! Sense and Sensibility! The Wedding Banquet. Brilliantly conceived and executed films, every one of them. I think he's one of our greatest directors around.

I HATED Crouching Tiger. Every Character was either a boring asshole or a whiner. Lame Plot, silly fight scenes that just looked ridiculous (all those people with flailing arms swinging around on wires was just too much for me to not burst out laughing at). And I was so happy when that annoying girl killed herself at the end. I wanted to do it about 20 minutes into the movie. FUCK she was annoying. Didn't like Sense and Sensibility. The Ice Storm was OK, but too heavy handed and HULK was the dumbest turd I've ever seen. WEdding Banquet was mildly amusing.

[Jasun]

Which is why you can't argue with a true Madonna fan.

No, but we laugh at you mercilessly behind your back (you should read some of the PMs I've had about this thread).

Look, I know that she's means a lot to you and you want to give her al the credit in the world, but most of us don't see it that way at all.

And never will.

And just because we don't see any difference between what she does and what Britney Spears does doesn't make us without taste.. We just view pop music as something different.

[XXXWriterDude]

No, but we laugh at you mercilessly behind your back (you should read some of the PMs I've had about this thread).

Well, then, if that's the case, well then, guess I don't have much need for those people now, do I? People who laugh at you behind your back are pretty fucking lame.