Bareback dilemna

[Huskyhunks]

I've been working on my new production company and got some great footage from Folsom Fair, mostly big dicks, all went well. Today, I advertised in craigstlist for guys who wanted to be filmed at my place in a party setup. Well, I got alot of very interested guys, but I also had a guy that wanted to bottom and be "gang banged".

Ok, we all know about this. It's not safe sex but the guy was honest and said he was positive. I don't have a problem with that and I thanked him for his honesty.

I enjoy watching bareback sex and it's seem to be very pervasive on the net today. If a guy is already positive and the information is out there to the tops, then I think this guy has the right to be filmed enjoying the sex the way he wants to.

I want to take videos of him getting barebacked and banged. I know I'm not alone. I've also been approached by couples who want to enjoy a barebacking session. These are two scenerios where consenting adults are making a conscious decision to not use condoms. Any thoughts ?

[gaybucks_chip]

You have to do what's right for you. Below is my personal (and our corporate) view:

For AJ and I, we are adamantly against the filming, production, distribution, sale, or viewing of bareback content because in our opinion, it absolutely sends the wrong message to the viewing public and encourages irresponsible behavior, as well as being disrespectful to the people that have died of HIV. Additionally, regardless of what anyone says as far as their willingness to take the risk, if someone had even a remote chance of having gotten HIV from doing a shoot with us, I would feel absolutely terrible.

If a model is positive, I think it's absolutely inappropriate for any responsible adult company to allow that model to be involved in bareback scenes (whether or not the other models are positive).

Anyone born much after 1968 or so doesn't remember what it was like watching dozens of your friends die. A lot of people spent all of their remaining months doing everything possible to get the word out to encourage people to be safe, so they wouldn't suffer the same fate. The adult industry changed from unsafe to safe almost overnight. Now, out of greed, a handful of smaller studios are putting their models lives at risk. Sorry, but I just think it's absolutely wrong.

[MiamiB]

HIV and AIDS are not going away...neither are high risk sexual acts like barebacking. If consenting adults want to engage in any form of sex...then you have a right to shoot it and to present it. Reality might be stupid but high risk sex is going on right now as I type this and censoring it from the internet and websites is NOT going to STOP it! In fact, it might make those who are curious seek it out in REAL LIFE instead of being satisfied with seeing on a video or website.

I think it therefore MUST be shown...for these stated reasons!

I say censor nothing...

Lee

[Huskyhunks]

Thanks for you input. I was definitely there during the 80's and had alot of friends die. Basically, they all knew about the disease but it didn't change their behavior because in the end, it was their choice to have sex the way they wanted to. Death is not very much of a deterrent these days or even back then.

Cigarettes kill many more people than hiv and no one really thinks twice about it. So does drunk driving. When arnold swarzenegger blows a guy away on the big screen, no one thinks twice about the violence. No one blames him for the shootings that occur every day on the streets.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. Part of me wants to, part of me is against it. I would say that the majority of studios are now doing bareback.

[gaybucks_chip]

I think the majority of *small* studios are doing bareback.

I think most of the major players still have some ethics.

[Squirt]

Here's how I look at it:

We setup the situation

We hire the models

We distribute the content

If you had a group of guys that wanted to put one bullet in a gun and have you film what happens as they pull the trigger, would you?

That's what you're doing when you film bareback. Period. Unless you test extensively before hand, and even then that's not safe.

People bareback for many reasons, but the main reason is that they're HIV positive already and have nothing to lose. Remember that.

[Huskyhunks]

I guess millions of gay men like seeing the "bang" because that's what they want and that's where the demand is. Go figure.

[XXXWriterDude]

Hey Charles,

Looks like you've started a riot here--and I haven't even looked at pages 2-5 of the post! LOL!

Barebacking is one of those topics that EVERYBODY has an opinion about, and it's usually one associated with self-righteousness. People LOVE to get on their high horses and start shouting about RESPONSIBILITY and MORALS and ETHICS, and it becomes much more about their desire to assert their OWN moral codes and ethics instead of actually reviewing the subject from a TRULY responsible POV.

What amazes me about the whole barebacking debate is how angry people get over it. And I think it has a lot more to do with our archaic attitudes surrounding sex than it does anything else. Nobody runs around saying "We can't show smoking in videos!" or "We can't film people bunji jumping anymore!" or "We can't show anymore violence." But as soon as the subject turns to barebacking, suddenly, it's wrong to show it. Why is this? Is it REALLY because we have so much concern for our brothers and sisters that we climb up the ladders of our high horses and start shouting from the rafters, or is it because we want to feel morally superior to the heathens who participate in such "revolting," "disgusting" behavior? Personally, I think it's the latter.

Fact: Bareback entertainment is simply that... entertainment. It is designed to showcase and celebrate a form of sexuality that is taboo and deemed inappropriate, and that is its chief selling point.

Opinion: People are drawn to the fire, and they like to push the envelope. It's exciting. There's something fascinating about watching people ignore the rules and do what they feel comes naturally to them, regardless of societal opinion. It's anarchy of a kind. It's punk rock for porn. Bareback porn gives the proverbial finger to all the politically correct companies who sit around and moralize about "proper sexuality."

Fact: Bareback porn is not for everyone.

Opinion: If you don't want to watch it, don't fucking watch it.

Fact: Bareback porn eroticizes potentially life-threatening behavior.

Opinion: Again, so do cigarette commercials and bunji jumping videos. What's the difference? It's all the same. The only difference is that barebacking is attached to sex. And THAT'S where the true problem lies.

Fact: A lot of young guys growing up are impressionable and can be easily swayed by entertainment.

Opinion: Are we going to take Marilyn Manson CDs off the market and ban Natural Born Killers as well for all those impressionable young teenagers in the world?

Fact: Bareback movies don't encourage barebacking anymore than music or movies promote violence.

Opinion: See above opinion regarding Marilyn Manson and Natural Born Killers. People are turned on and entertained by many things, but it does not mean that they are going to run out and do what they are entertained by. If you think they are, then you're essentially treating people like they are idiots. Give people more credit than that.

Fact: Art imitates life.

Opinion: Barebacking is part of life. For those of us who like seeing it (and I like seeing it), we should be allowed to watch it without judgment.

I think what we need to remember when it comes to this debate is that CONSENSUALITY is the key to a healthy lifestyle. I fucking hate it when people start asking things like "Well, would you film *********** or child porn?" Can we PLEASE, for once, get OVER ourselves for a little bit here and tackle this issue from a practical, RESPONSIBLE point of view and not one tied up in such overwrought drama and morality and hostility toward each other?

Is it possible for people to engage in responsible barebacking sex? Absolutely! When all of the partners are informed about each other's status and are aware of the risks involved, that is absolutely responsible. Do people want to acknowledge this? No. Instead, we want to run around sounding like fucking Republicans and Christian zealots who keep screaming about "The children! The children! We've got to protect the children!" In reality, we just want to control each other, just like the government wants to control porn.

Do we have a responsibility to set forth postive examples for our youth? Well, that depends on you. A lot of people say, "Look, I'm making the entertainment that I want to see, and I'm not here to spread a message." And that's fine. Personally, I would rather see everybody take notice of the messages they are sending out and move forward from there. As I always say, It's NEVER just porn. Every time we film a porn movie, we make a statement about gay male sexuality.

So, what statement should we be making? Personally, I feel we should be making a statement about A) being educated, and B) personal responsibility. We need to make sure that everybody in the community is educated about the potentially harmful risks associated with participating in bareback sex, and make sure that they are armed with the information they need to stay negative.

To me, barebacking films are educational tools. They are also fantasty fulfillment for a lot of guys who would love to bareback, but won't because they don't want to seroconvert. In this way, barebacking films are serving a very important purpose in our community. They allow guys to "participate in the behavior" without actually physically doing it themselves.

How can we shift the balance in barebacking films and making them more responsible? First of all, studios can take a stand and raise the age of performers who wish to perform in them, and not allow any model under the age of 25 to be involved in them. (Personally, I think we should do that for ALL of porn, but it's not for me to say.)

Secondly, we can make sure that before the movie starts, viewers are given the information to stay negative in an entertaining way. PSAs with hot porn stars are a great way to do this. Inform the viewer about what it is he is about to watch (just like they do on TV with "NYPD Blue" and "Law & Order") and then let them make their own choices about whether they want to watch it or not.

Thirdly, we can just not make these movies, but we can acknowledge that there ARE those who wish to see it, and we can simply say, "Personally, it's not for me, but I understand that it's not my place to tell others what they should be turned on by." We need to take all the judgment and the sermonizing and the finger-shaking and the fucking hypocrisy out of this equation and simply let the world turn as it does.

The reality is that we can't stop barebacking movies from being made. The demand for them is too high. Just like we can't stop kids from having sex, but we CAN educate them on having safer sex. Our job is not to tell people WHAT they can watch, but HOW to watch it. THAT is what I think is really important in this topic, and all that other bullshit we keep slinging at each other needs to stop, b/cuz it's just fucking TIRED. Nobody needs to hear it, and nobody WANTS to hear it. Stop being a cliche' for a change and wake up to reality and be a responsible person who is pro-active instead of reactive.

Barebacking porn is NOT the problem. IGNORANCE is. That's where the battle needs to be fought.

And that is just my "humble" two cents.

[XXXWriterDude]

Sorry if my last post came off as argumentative or angry. I'm not directing my comments at ANYONE here personally. I understand it's a very passionate topic for many, and I, of course, respect those who have lived through the devastation that the AIDS epidemic has caused in our community.

I'm just really tired of hearing people screaming about this topic. It never solves anything, and it's not pro-active. I feel it's incumbent on us to discuss this topic without all the emotional histrionics we like to resort to. If we are truly going to set positive examples for those just coming out, then we need to tackle this issue the same way we would when talking about drunk driving or smoking or teenage pregnancy. And as anyone with a SANE mind knows, screaming at people and saying "This is wrong!" is not the way to get them not to do something. Educating them and telling them they have a choice is the best policy.

It's no different than needle-sharing programs in the big cities and condoms in schools. We have simply got to stop the sermonizing and step up to the plate and be pro-active for a change. If that means you don't film barebacking movies, that's great. Good for you. But don't go around telling everyone one else that they are wrong for A) making them, or B) wanting to see it. Judgment calls are not the way to make change. Education is.

[DonMike]

Sorry if my last post came off as argumentative or angry. I'm not directing my comments at ANYONE here personally. I understand it's a very passionate topic for many, and I, of course, respect those who have lived through the devastation that the AIDS epidemic has caused in our community.

I don't think you have anything to apologize about. You made an excellent point of what you were trying to say and at no time did you point fingers at any one in particular. We seem to agree on many points, and the things you said that I did not agree with at the onset did give me food for thought about my attitudes on the subject. It's funny how we can be so permissive on some things and so indignant about others when they are both more similar than we'd care to admit.

And I have to say, the reason we are so hot and fired about this topic is because we're not affected by the abortion controversy and why should straight people have all the fun? (tongue firmly planted in cheek, thank you very much)

[Huskyhunks]

Well, I asked for thought on the subject of filming bareback. Everyone seems to have an opinion. No problem with that. After all, this is a discussion board. I see know reason not to tackle complex issues. Most of us do it every day.

Stating your opinion and damning everyone else, let's just say, this hardly is ever constructive. Shouting louder than your opponent does not make you right. It simply makes you louder.

It's about time there is some serious dialogue on this subject because it does affect everyone, directly, and indirectly. Most of the new porn I'm seeing is all about bareback. Maybe it's time that we self police and opt for some sort of warning label on dvd's and such ?

[basschick]

XXXWriterDude - you never even try to understand other people's points of view- or not in any serious thread i've seen. you decide what our motivations are and group us together, regardless of the fact that we don't all have the same motivations. in NO way were morals a part of my objection.

i have friends who have HIV - it's no fun. it's horrible, and may be fatal, although often it appears that hep C will kill them long before AIDS - which is often also avoidable with condoms. and yes, one of them got it through oral sex. he's never done IV drugs and never fucked (weird, i know). it does happen.

ignorance may cause the problem, but people living - or dying - with HIV, hep C, herpes, and many other uncurable life-threatening diseases is the problem. and it's one we can prevent - not just with education, but using condoms.

[XXXWriterDude]

basschick, my love, I'm not sure I understand your response. My post was ALL ABOUT trying to understand other peoples' points of views. That was the whole purpose for my post in the first place. Perhaps you missed that part at the end where I said "People make barebacking porn, but it's just not for me."

Again, my post was not directed toward anyone in particular, just to the general population, and I'm not damning anyone. I'm stating my personal viewpoints about the topic, that's all. I'm also pointing out that the majority of the objections to bareback porn seem to have to do with moral objections as opposed to practical ones. I'm simply stating what I observe in the behavior of others when this topic comes up. If you take that personally, it's your perogative to do so, but please don't assert your off-base analysis of my intentions into what I say, because you couldn't be further off the mark if you tried.

[XXXWriterDude]

XXXWriterDude - you never even try to understand other people's points of view- or not in any serious thread i've seen. you decide what our motivations are and group us together, regardless of the fact that we don't all have the same motivations. in NO way were morals a part of my objection.

Feel the need to respond to this a little more. If you look on the VERY first page of this thread, you can see exactly why I posted the message that I did. Huskyguy posted his question--a VERY responsible, open-ended question intended to promote discussion--and immediately got responses that were both emotionally and morally based. When one member rightfully commented on what he felt sounded like hypocrisy, he was viciously attacked by another who started to immediately sermonize. And that's what I perceive the CHIEF problem to be when it comse to this topic. People choose to ignore the reality of the situation and instead resort to name-calling and intimidation through sermonizing. And I find that to be highly irresponsible. In school, sex education classes give EDUCATION about sex, not MORAL SERMONS around it. (Or at least we hope not.) It's important to stick to the facts and the facts alone, not pull in our judgment calls and start making snap analyses of how "sad" other people are for having their own opinions or acknowleding that, indeed, the world is not a perfect place to live in and that not everythign is rose-colored.

i have friends who have HIV - it's no fun. it's horrible, and may be fatal, although often it appears that hep C will kill them long before AIDS - which is often also avoidable with condoms. and yes, one of them got it through oral sex. he's never done IV drugs and never fucked (weird, i know). it does happen.

Another common thread in debates like this one. Perhaps one of the most prevalent, and personally, one that I'm really tired of hearing. "I've had friends who have been effected" does not make it OK to preach to the rest of the world what they should be doing. In fact, I would think it would make you more sympathetic than anything else.

ignorance may cause the problem, but people living - or dying - with HIV, hep C, herpes, and many other uncurable life-threatening diseases is the problem. and it's one we can prevent - not just with education, but using condoms.

I never debated that fact. And it's a VERY good point to make. My chief point to make is that the barebacking in porn issue is one that is best defeated through education and the encouragement of personal responsibility, NOT censorship and moralizing.

Do I engage in bareback sex in my own private life? On occasion, yes, but only if both partners are informed and are aware of the risks involved, even if we both think we are negative. I'm being responsible for my OWN actions, and proceeding with the full knowledge of the possible consequences. (Again, just as people do when they hang-glide, or bunji jump, or smoke cigarettes. People do things every single day that are potentially life threatening and carry a great deal of IMMEDIATE risk, and no one jumps on a high horse about that.)

Do I enjoy watching bareback porn? On occasion, yes. And I take offense to the notion that there is something "wrong" with me for wanting to do so, as somebody stated on here earlier. Does the fact that one of my favorite movies of all time is Pulp Fiction make me a sick fuck as well? Gee, how nice to know that I'm not being judged by my fellow mates...

Would I film bareback sex in the porn I want to one day produce? Probably not. (Unless, perhaps, both partners were a monogamous, long-time couple who were both negative and wanted to record their sexuality on film. But even then I would proceed with caution and host huge banners on the risks involved in unprotected sex.) Personally, I DO feel that I have a responsibility to put certain messages out into the world, and I would rather promote safer sex than bareback sex b/cuz I understand the need to reinforce the idea of safer sex in the gay community.

Again, that said, I feel it is the right for any company to produce the content they see fit to produce--PROVIDED that their models are informed of the risks and that they take part only through informed and expressed consent.

Again Basschick, none of my comments were directed toward you personally, and they are still not. I'm simply trying to reinforce what I feel to be a more pro-active mentality when it comes to barebacking porn--one that is predicated upon the belief that human beings are intelligent creatures who have the power of personal responsibility in their favor, and who have the "God-given" right to utilize it as they see fit.

[basschick]

i didn't preach and some other people didn't, either.

i believe that most people don't have the information to make an informed decision on this issue. a lot of people believe that you simply CAN NOT get hiv through oral because they have heard it from their own authority figures.

and there is more to life than HIV, but most producers and webmasters don't even talk about hep C, which is more of a problem in some ways as the treatments are less friendly and less effective.

maybe every producer should sit down with every model and tell him every STD he could get, and then ask him to do a shoot. but that's never really going to happen - producers mostly don't even think outside the gon, syph, and HIV. so first we'd have to educate the producers - all of them.

this isn't going to happen in a day or a month - or at all. there are some brilliant and informed producers but there are ignorant or opinionated or predatory producers. so why not just have the talent wear a condom and keep everyone as safe as possible? they can always shoot committed couples for barebacking...