Whats the thing you fucking hate about being gay?

[maxpower]

Well I for one think XXXWriterDude made some good points, but this “4) UNHEALTHY BODY” well I do not know what gay guys you know, but most do not take care of themselves but this IMAGE/OBSESSION WITH SUPERFICIALITY is a good point I see it every day gay people that are completely out of shape and much older thinking they are attractive to people they really have nothing in common with. I know str8 people do this too, but gay people are by far worse about this stuff. I can not even take a fucking piss in a gay club with out all kinds of problems

And this UNHEALTHY FIXATION ON STRAIGHT GUYS well I can really see that. To tell the truth I would much rather date a str8 or almost totally str8 guy. I guess it could be called unhealthy in a way in another it is not. I just fit in better with str8 or really srt8 acting guys, and are much more attractive to them before I am even sure they are gay or not. I am really not into gender issues, sex flakes, or alot of the “gay community” stuff that people talk about like its something its not.

[DonMike]

Maxpower, I think the word you are looking for is "attracted". Your use of the word "attractive" in your post changes your point entirely and I don't think it was your intention.

[XXXWriterDude]

I really don't understand why you tie yourself up into knots over people. Basschick is correct in that the problems you see in others who happen to be gay are universal issues. It's interesting that just because you are in a gay context, it becomes a "gay issue"

I disagree, Steve. Most of this stuff I got from talking to psychologists who specialize in the gay community for several stories I did on sexual behavior in the gay community. They explicitly brought up many of these issuse as being SPECIFIC to the gay community, and I couldn't agree with them more. I had made many similar observations even before talking with them, based on my own experiences. Before I decided to become a writer, I was studying to become a psychologist, and I've always been fascinated with how certain societal factors influence people's behavior.

It may be true that in some ways these issues may apply to all other people, but they are a little more prevalent in the gay community--at least from what I can see--and I totally stand by my post.

KK

[XXXWriterDude]

But here is a good example of one of your knots: you front the complaint "shame about ourselves / internalized homophobia" and several points later you claim "obsession with superficiality/body image". How can someone who is "self loathing" simultaneously be constantly projecting a superficial body image? especially if it is regarding hypersexualizing their ass or cock or dressing like an Andy Warhol doll and going out to dance clubs?

Easy. The exact same way that someone who is terribly insecure can come off as aggressively arrogant. A lot of guys get into the gym and pump up b/cuz they feel insecure about their bodies/have shame about their bodies. They pump up and pump up and pump up and still they say they don't look "good enough," but their idea of "good enough" is a superficial image of attractiveness that has been shoved down their throats by not just the media at large, but also the GAY media and the gay community which has come to accept those standards, which as far as I'm concerned, makes this a problem that is in many ways--at least the ones that matter--specific to being gay.

Trust me; I'm not tied up in knots about this. And while it may come across that many of these issues perplex and frustrate me, I have little room in my life for judgment. There's a big difference between being aware of and pointing out problems and judging those who have them. To me, it's simply unfortunate that so many of these issues to pervade our community. Obviously, that's judgment of a certain kind--as there can be no such thing as a life that is completely without judgment--but not in the same way that others dismiss people as being assholes or question their morals and ethics.

If a gay guy wants to chase after str8 men, that works for me. I think it's unfortunate, but I don't think the guy is an asshole for doing it.

[Jasun]

I'm so glad I'm just a guy.

having to put up with whiney gay people who peg the entire gay community into a little box so they can complain about how much they hate gay people annoys me more than anything.

hearing gay people say things to me like "you and your boyfriend are monogamous? I've never heard of that" or "Well, you know at the baths.."

hearing people say "Gay people are all so flighty" as if straight people are all totally grounded.

People who blame their sexual orientation for every one of their own failings.

argh.

[DonMike]

It's like that line in Broken Hearts Club, LA is a bunch of 10's looking for an 11.

[maxpower]

Maxpower, I think the word you are looking for is "attracted". Your use of the word "attractive" in your post changes your point entirely and I don't think it was your intention.

Yes you are very right man sorry, only wrote that when I woke up after about 4 hours of sleep to talk to some people I am working with then went back to bed, so I am sure it was a bit incoherent

[XXXWriterDude]

I'm so glad I'm just a guy.

having to put up with whiney gay people who peg the entire gay community into a little box so they can complain about how much they hate gay people annoys me more than anything.

hearing gay people say things to me like "you and your boyfriend are monogamous? I've never heard of that" or "Well, you know at the baths.."

hearing people say "Gay people are all so flighty" as if straight people are all totally grounded.

People who blame their sexual orientation for every one of their own failings.

argh.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I happen to LOVE gay people. But I'm also aware of issues that plague our community, as I am about issues that plague the world at large.

You can't box any one community into stereotypes, but there ARE trends of behavior that emerge in each of those communities. And those trends can be frustrating to some. Others don't care so much; they just ignore them and go on with life.

As I said before, it's all about being your own kind of gay person, whatever that means to you, and whatever works for you best. It doesn't matter what I or anything else thinks. You have to live your life the way that makes you happiest. All the power to you or anyone else who does this.

[basschick]

since every one of your points could STRONGLY be applied to almost every woman i know, i think perhaps aiming these things toward gay men is a way of making certain gay men feel more special, more exclusive. suddenly problems like MOST men, gay bi or str8. being very superficial is a gay issue.

maybe the psychologists you talk to see that problem in gay men because they work with gay men. i see those problems on a very regular basis in large groups of people - maybe a large part of my life isn't focused on any one group.

it scares me how we as a people tend to take a wide-spread issue or problem and assign it to one group of people. it's a great way to separate that one group in our minds from being part of everyone else and isolating that group, making them apart from everyone else.

I disagree, Steve. Most of this stuff I got from talking to psychologists who specialize in the gay community for several stories I did on sexual behavior in the gay community. They explicitly brought up many of these issuse as being SPECIFIC to the gay community, and I couldn't agree with them more. I had made many similar observations even before talking with them, based on my own experiences. Before I decided to become a writer, I was studying to become a psychologist, and I've always been fascinated with how certain societal factors influence people's behavior.

It may be true that in some ways these issues may apply to all other people, but they are a little more prevalent in the gay community--at least from what I can see--and I totally stand by my post.

KK

[Xstr8guy]

Again, the L.A. people take over a thread with issues that are almost exclusive to them. The rest of America is not L.A. In fact, LA really is it's own country.

I exaggerate for effect. But seriously, you folks put so much focus on body image issues, status, etc, that most non-L.A. people can't relate. I'm not denying that gay culture prizes fit bodies. But for some reason, L.A. seems to put EXTRA emphasis on it. Instead of spraying pestisides from helicopters to kill med-flys... they should spray Xanax on all of you! :honest:

[XXXWriterDude]

I think it's really important to clarify something here. All I know is that my straight brother and I grew up in the same household with the same parents and in the same town. And he turned out one way, and I turned out another. I had tons of insecurity, shame, guilt, self-loathing and other issues haunting me well into my adulthood, while he had NONE of those same issues. Any psychologist who has studied human behavior will tell you that my issues come as a direct result of my experiences being oppressed as a GAY man. If I hadn't been gay, I may have turned out much like my brother, who--while he has his own set of issues as a result of growing up in an abusive household--is a pretty well-adjusted guy thanks to being straight.

I'm not saying these issues are EXCLUSIVE to our community. Women have body issues and shame about sex, sure. But so do MANY MANY MANY gay men, whose insecurities manifest themselves in a number of behavioral patterns that have been recognized and validated by many experts on both social behavior and psychology. I'm not making this shit up. It's been widely reported in major psychology journals. To me, this makes any of those issues "gay issues" b/cuz they are intrinsically linked to one's experiences as a gay man--regardless of who else might experience similar problems.

My point in my post was not to complain about how much I hate the gay community. Whatever. Again, for emphasis: WHATEVER. But because somebody explicitly ASKED what we hated about being gay, I figured I would offer up my viewpoints based on MY experiences as, yes, a GAY MAN.

Man, what I wouldn't give to live in a world where sharing one's honest opinion wasn't immediate grounds for being dismissed.

[XXXWriterDude]

Again, the L.A. people take over a thread with issues that are almost exclusive to them. The rest of America is not L.A. In fact, LA really is it's own country.

I exaggerate for effect. But seriously, you folks put so much focus on body image issues, status, etc, that most non-L.A. people can't relate. I'm not denying that gay culture prizes fit bodies. But for some reason, L.A. seems to put EXTRA emphasis on it. Instead of spraying pestisides from helicopters to kill med-flys... they should spray Xanax on all of you! :honest:

You're right on this. Perhaps I should have said "the gay community in Los Angeles." Though actually it seems to be pervading gay cultures in most major cities. My gay friends in New York complain of very similar frustrations.

[basschick]

people buy cars and beer and fishing reels because a hot chick or guy is on the ad. major national magazines keep model-quality people on the covers to help sell them anywhere but in l.a. singers who are fat are forced to consider using a model to represent them in new york.

and fat people EVERYWHERE are shamed - in newspapers, magazines, tv - you name it.

nope, i think plenty of superficiality and shame happen outside of our little fishbowl here. the only reason l.a. seems more superficial is because we have the actors and models all right here - and if a model or actor loses their looks, they lose their job. of course they're superficial - it's not only a fear of rejection; it's a realistic fear of losing EVERYTHING with their looks.

Again, the L.A. people take over a thread with issues that are almost exclusive to them. The rest of America is not L.A. In fact, LA really is it's own country.

I exaggerate for effect. But seriously, you folks put so much focus on body image issues, status, etc, that most non-L.A. people can't relate. I'm not denying that gay culture prizes fit bodies. But for some reason, L.A. seems to put EXTRA emphasis on it. Instead of spraying pestisides from helicopters to kill med-flys... they should spray Xanax on all of you! :honest:

[XXXWriterDude]

people buy cars and beer and fishing reels because a hot chick or guy is on the ad. major national magazines keep model-quality people on the covers to help sell them anywhere but in l.a. singers who are fat are forced to consider using a model to represent them in new york.

and fat people EVERYWHERE are shamed - in newspapers, magazines, tv - you name it.

nope, i think plenty of superficiality and shame happen outside of our little fishbowl here. the only reason l.a. seems more superficial is because we have the actors and models all right here - and if a model or actor loses their looks, they lose their job. of course they're superficial - it's not only a fear of rejection; it's a realistic fear of losing EVERYTHING with their looks.

Oooooh, that's a good point, Patti. Superficiality and shame are widespread problems.

Shame about body image is most definitely a larger problem, one that has only recently begun to really affect heterosexual men. To that I say, "It's about frickin' time you had to suffer too!"

[Xstr8guy]

and fat people EVERYWHERE are shamed - in newspapers, magazines, tv - you name it.

And where does the rest of America get it's views on body issues? L.A. perhaps? After all, that's where Hollywood is.