Ccbill says Visa does not care about ID’s

[chadknowslaw]

Chad, having read your posts, i know your a clever guy, and i agree with your in what youve just said.

Im talking in the same lines as you were in the GFY thread about scat sites and that guy whos being prosecuted for the video.

Sure VISA may decide what they like, we all know they own the economy in most developed countries and make their own rules. but we as webmasters should be supporting max, not taking pleasure in his problems like lee is.

I will be honest. I am taking pleasure in Max being turned down. Max asks for advice and then gets angry when it is not what he wants to hear, or just completely ignores the advice altogether. So, I am taking some amusement in this lesson I hope he is learning.

However, I DO completely support the right to publish legal content. As long as children [under 18] are not involved, and all the models are sober and willing, then have at it. I have not seen Max's site, but it sounds like he is pushing the underage envelope. Using models that are 18 but look younger, or putting them in situations or made up to look young will make some people and businesses shy away. That is their right. The right of free expression means that you get to express yourself, but nobody has to listen and nobody has to help you speak out. Max has every right to make his site the way he wants to, but he must accept the fact that not everybody will appreciate it and some businesses will refuse to work with him.

[marcjacob]

And yet on GFY you argued the case for a video pushin pee, scat, drinking pee, eating vomit, eating shit etc. and there you argued elequintly with everyone who said it was wrong. now your saying its fine if a business doesnt want to work with him? when that video was 100% illegal and max's site is 100% legal?

[chadknowslaw]

And yet on GFY you argued the case for a video pushin pee, scat, drinking pee, eating vomit, eating shit etc. and there you argued elequintly with everyone who said it was wrong. now your saying its fine if a business doesnt want to work with him? when that video was 100% illegal and max's site is 100% legal?

The difference is that the GFY thread was about _government_ action. When the government tries to put someone in _prison_ for producing material found to be offensive to some people I become agitated. When a business decides not to do business with someone, that is the free market at work. It is just as much the right of another business _not_ to deal with you as it is your right to publish legal material that some people find offensive.

[chadknowslaw]

In the US, the Bill of Rights includes the right of free expression, to practice the religion of your choice, to be free from illegal searches, free from boarding soldiers against your will or without compensation, the right to a fair trial and a handful of others.

usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/funddocs/billeng.htm

These are rights between people and their government. They are not protections between individuals or relating to how businesses interact.

[Matt 26z]

CCBill may have told you it was the photos, but the bank reviewer would have been influenced by the entire site as a whole. Other sites with those same models get approved, so you need to take a look at your overall presentation.

If the bank's approval process involves one employee making a judgment call, keep in mind that it's easier to deny than to take the risk of approving a site you made the reviewer uncomfortable with. Why should this employee take a risk for you?

Rethink your text and make sure your tour models show their age. Granted, not all twinks look 18, but the general feel of the site should be that of one featuring 18+ models. Picking out the youngest looking photos from each set and using the "makeup" effect to soften skin need to be used in moderation.

[marcjacob]

maybe i misunderstood your posts, i read it as a call for webmasters to support their colleagues. that quaint little world war 2 post about no one being left to take action. i agreed with you, maybe for the wrong reasons but thats how i read it.

what im objecting to here is smart asses taking pleasure in maxes problems. again i say, if it was anyone other than max i dont believe wed give that responce.

[marcjacob]

CCBill may have told you it was the photos, but the bank reviewer would have been influenced by the entire site as a whole. Other sites with those same models get approved, so you need to take a look at your overall presentation.

If the bank's approval process involves one employee making a judgment call, keep in mind that it's easier to deny than to take the risk of approving a site you made the reviewer uncomfortable with. Why should this employee take a risk for you?

Rethink your text and make sure your tour models show their age. Granted, not all twinks look 18, but the general feel of the site should be that of one featuring 18+ models. Picking out the youngest looking photos from each set and using the "makeup" effect to soften skin need to be used in moderation.

and thats all lee needed to say.. not well i told you so.

[Lee]

what im objecting to here is smart asses taking pleasure in maxes problems. again i say, if it was anyone other than max i dont believe wed give that responce.

If it was anyone else other than Sean, we wouldnt even be here as they would have listened to the advice they were given, even if it wasnt what they wanted to hear.

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

max, the problem could be that your words make the reviewers at ccbill perceive the models as younger. remember, you want your surfers to do that - and it may have worked on your processor.

since all the pics are from a well known producer and all the sets are in many other sites processed by ccbill, have you talked to mark (corvett) at ccbill? if the issue is one reviewer, not only is it possible the issue could be resolved but ccbill should know if they have a reviewer who is turning down legal sites using well known legal content.

Ya I did talk to the guys at Ccbill Bass, and really Ccbill has NP with my site as it was at all and in fact approved it for processing. What I think I am going to do is make the changes that the Bank wants to the images hell even go with some that are WAY too old to be in this site just to make sure it will be ok. Then after I am done with this Bank stuff I will just contact the people at Ccbill to get approval for my NEW site tour “update” This should fix this problem Ccbill is much easier to deal with and know more about this than some guy that works in a bank. After all I only need the bank to approve it one time, then I can deal with people that know more about content and how legal this site really is.

For all those who think I can not open this, you are wrong I am just going to have to jump though some more hoops and deal with people that know what they are doing.

[Lee]

What I think I am going to do is make the changes that the Bank wants to the images hell even go with some that are WAY too old to be in this site just to make sure it will be ok. Then after I am done with this Bank stuff I will just contact the people at Ccbill to get approval for my NEW site tour “update” This should fix this problem Ccbill is much easier to deal with and know more about this than some guy that works in a bank. After all I only need the bank to approve it one time, then I can deal with people that know more about content and how legal this site really is.

An awesome idea!

I really look forward to you doing this, it will get your acct shut down quicker than you could imagine and, id guess, also get you blacklisted by Visa :thumbsup:

Regards,

Lee

[DonMike]

what you can do is talk to ccbill. what they do and don't allow is strictly up to them and to visa.

I just did, Patti. And this is not a CCBill issue. It's totally with the bank. I tried but I'm afaid there is nothing further I can do.

In my opinion, they (the bank) do not want to deal with this site because the models are as young as 18 and the wording really pushes the point home that these are young guys, but since they need to give specific reasons why they are refusing him they need to pinpoint a few images. I honestly don't believe it's just the images themselves that are causing the rejection or this would be happening all over, and I don't think it's the use of a few specific words. I think it's the overall feel of the site that they do not like and do not want to deal with.

[basschick]

sure it is - but if you recall the threads in question, max actively insulted me, chip and several other people for giving him the advice he requested. funny thing - it was the same advice we'd have given to anyone asking those questions but somehow he turned them into personal vendettas.

so saying i told you so seems fair to me.

and thats all lee needed to say.. not well i told you so.

[chadknowslaw]

maybe i misunderstood your posts, i read it as a call for webmasters to support their colleagues. that quaint little world war 2 post about no one being left to take action. i agreed with you, maybe for the wrong reasons but thats how i read it.

what im objecting to here is smart asses taking pleasure in maxes problems. again i say, if it was anyone other than max i dont believe wed give that responce.

Max has made his own bed by his actions. Max has every right to say the things he does, to ignore and even ridicule the freely given advice of veterans, and to publish legal content that others find objectionable. But when the loud obnoxious guy gets slapped down after he had been thoroughly warned, then he should expect that the people he has ridiculed will point and laugh.
However, if Max had been arrested or charged by a government agency because his material was thought to be too offensive, I would be his cheerleader. It matters who the enemy is. When a webmaster is fighting the government, I am on the side of the webmaster. When a webmaster refuses to follow the normal course of doing business, he will not get any support from me when his actions come back to bite him in the ass.

[maxpower]

An awesome idea!

I really look forward to you doing this, it will get your acct shut down quicker than you could imagine and, id guess, also get you blacklisted by Visa :thumbsup:

Regards,

Lee

Why is that? I am just going to make sure its approved by the bank, them make sure everything I do is approved by Ccbill. Its not like I am using underage people or saying they are underage its just that the bank people really do not understand this content. I know no matter what I do you will have some negative content about it so your option is almost worthless to me. One way or another I will open this 100% legal site and follow all the rules I need to, just think it would be best to deal with people that know content better than these bank guys.

[Squirt]

Can you give links to that thread ?

sure it is - but if you recall the threads in question, max actively insulted me, chip and several other people for giving him the advice he requested. funny thing - it was the same advice we'd have given to anyone asking those questions but somehow he turned them into personal vendettas.

so saying i told you so seems fair to me.