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Thread: (potentially?) controversial topic - Sponsors vs Affiliates

  1. #1
    CorbinFisher.com CorbinFisher_BD's Avatar
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    (potentially?) controversial topic - Sponsors vs Affiliates

    Or... traffic vs. content.

    Let's have a discussion hehe. Now, I've been on both sides of the above. Worked primarily as an affiliate and ran a high-traffic site that made all its money from sending surfers to sponsors, as well as on the content-creation and sponsor side of things.

    A lot of people view traffic as the end all, be all. That 50% revshare is, if anything, less than adequate. It should actually be more. That without the traffic the affiliate provides, the sponsor gets nothing.

    Now... the above notion works if it could be safely assumed any surfers an affiliate refers would never otherwise have been aware or found their way to a sponsor site were it not for that particular affiliate, but is that actually true?

    There are tons of affiliates out there promoting tons of paysites, tons of surfers finding their way around the web and all kinds of different manners in which a surfer makes their way to a site.

    Who is to say that an affiliate's referred surfer wasn't just a pure-luck referral? Which is to say, it was completely random that the surfer just happened to find their way to that affiliates site, click on a banner, and end up at the sponsor as opposed to guided by some grand effort on the part of the affiliate. Maybe that surfer goes to that sponsor all the time but just lazily clicked through your referral code that time. Maybe they got lost among reciprocal links and just ended up clicking through as a sale to you almost by accident or at least by pure chance.

    I know that as a producer, we put insane amounts of effort, energy, time, and money in to what we produce. We...

    - recruit all the models (and deal with all of what that entails)
    - film all the content, edit it, digitize it, host it, stream it, supply it
    - pay massive sums of money to the models
    - pay massive sums of money for hosting (much more than a traffic site would pay unless, for some strange reason, they had as much video being served off of their site as we do ours)
    - deal with the legal aspects of creating adult content
    - compete with tons of other producers also working very hard to do all of the above
    - create a product that sells and inspires one's pulling out their credit card in the first place
    - create a content and provide a service that rebills and generates recurring revenue

    Is that really only worth 50% compared to the effort of an affiliate who may or may not have done anything more than just throw up a banner on their site and happened to send a surfer your way?

    Mind you, there are a lot of affiliates who work their asses off to promote sponsors, promote their sponsors in unique ways and do wonders in contributing the development of their own brand as well as the brands of their sponsors. There are also many affiliates who can choose to promote a new site and, in doing so, set that sponsor on a path to success (bring publicity to an up and coming yet relatively unknown site). There are many affilites - the major, high traffic ones - that literally can set a site on fire and turn it in to a success. There are also affiliates who are up and coming and may end up being the best affiliate a sponsor ever had, though not quite there yet.

    But not all affiliates are like that. So... should all be getting 50% or these huge PPS?

    As a sponsor, do you look at every referred sale and think "There was no way I could have gotten that sale myself, and so eagerly pay out that 50% or huge PPS chunk"?

    Shouldn't affiliates, to a certain degree, be thankful to and almost indebted to the content providers who assume the tremendous burdens of creating content?

    Discuss

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  2. #2
    I'd rather be whole, than good
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    The adult web has grown in to the mighty beast that it is today due to successful partnerships between affiliates and sponsors.

    If a sponsors business is being run properly the bigger the payouts then the happier he/she should be. It means that everyone in the collaberative venture is making more money.


  3. #3
    Always Learning - Please teach me! tigermom's Avatar
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    Well, the effort the affiliate puts in is in bringing that traffic to their own site. The surfer may have accidentally clicked your banner, but the affiliate spends a lot of effort building pages, and then promoting them. Surfers get to an affiliate's page by link exchanges we made and SEO efforts.

    Is a 50/50 revshare fair to both sides? Well, if you had one content producer and one affiliate only, I would say the content producer should get more, because he would have more expenses. But, you have one content producer with hundreds, or thousands of affiliates, so the sunk cost involved in producing the site is divided into thousands of those marketing channels...

    I sometimes wonder about the fairness of it all, going both ways. I have had so many sponsors that don't convert for me. I spend a lot of time in sending some sponsors literally tens of thousands of clicks without a single sale. Is that fair to me? I brand their website, and who knows, maybe the surfer just cleared their cookies and got back the next day and signed up, for all I know. Wouldn't it have been more fair for us to get paid per click? Do an adwords sort of system and pay 30 cents per click (with link text controlled by you, so no blind links)? I surely would have made a lot more out of it that way. Most of my income is from adsense (mainstream sites) and I sometimes think about how unfair the whole adult affiliate model is where I get much less for my traffic then I do on mainstream. Effective CPM on mainstream is usually $2-$6. Effective CPM on adult in measured in a few cents. The work to bring in the traffic is similar...

    Just some thoughts and ramblings from the affiliate side of things. And btw, I would much rather get only 40%, heck, even 30%, from sponsors that convert and retain. Right now I am seeing ratios of 1:3000 or so, with good search engine traffic (no TGP), with some sponsors. So, no, at these ratios, I think I deserve a fair share of the cake, or it simply wouldn't be worth my time at all (is borderline as it is now).

    Last, but not least. Some paysites don't have affiliate systems, so I hear. I also hear that when they want to grow their audience significantly, many do go the affiliate route... I guess it makes business sense, or it wouldn't have happened
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  4. #4
    Hot guys & hard cocks Squirt's Avatar
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    I was shocked when I saw the MAXIMIMUM 8.5% commission that Amazon.com offers it's affiliates. In their affiliates section they boast about having the program active since 1996 and affiliates making Amazon.com what it is today.

    I'm stunned when I see other adult sponsor programs that offer $40 or more per sale to affiliates.

    This just goes to show that sponsor and affiliate partnerships are dynamic and driven by market demand, amongst other things. All things considered, the adult industry has a flock mentality to the latest and greatest or biggest and best thing.

    I don't think an affiliate partner should be indebted to me for working with me, that's rediculous. Big programs can afford to pay 50% to affiliates, smaller programs don't mind paying 50% because they get traffic they most likely wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

    Affiliates and sponsors are in a partnership. I don't know why you're trying to cause conflict or friction between affiliates and sponsors. If the company you work for, Corbin Fisher, is to cheap to pay affiliates 50% then don't. Wanna be elitist sponsors, and affiliates, are a waste of everyones time. They think their shit don't stink and start putting conditions on everyone, and taking more of everyones time, for less long term return. Every hot site gets old after a while and every good affiliate is constantly fighting to stay in rank. Sponsor and affiliate partnerships are good for all involved and a 50/50 split is fair.
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  5. #5
    You do realize by 'gay' I mean a man who has sex with other men?
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    Personally, i would like to see payouts in the industry lowered overall, from revshare and PPS sponsors, unfortunately, we know that isnt going to happen until there is a massive shake-up of billing companies AND PPS sponsors by Visa or the government.

    So long as we continue catering to the base denominator of free porn, more money, less work, more exclusive sites, free hosted *whatever*, etc etc, its not going to change, and guess what, its not going to get any easier either.

    Is affiliate traffic worth 50% of a sale? Hell no.

    Before replying i checked my affiliate stats, less than 25% of our total affiliates send regular sales, by regular i mean at least 1 sale a week, of that 25%, less than 10% send a regular sale, meaning at least 1 sale a day.

    I would love to be able to pay affiliates on a sliding scale based on how many sales they actually send, send 1-10 sales, make 25%, send 11-20 sales make 30%, send 21-30 sales make 40%, etc but unfortunately, over the past 5 years we [program owners] have groomed affiliates in to beleiving that they are worth 50%+ per sale, and, that all they have to do is put up a few links to our FHGs and they will be rolling in cash within 24 hours of joining our programs.

    Bottom line? Affiliates need to start realizing that they are getting paid above and beyond what they are 'actually' worth, especially looking at some of the traffic sources these people have.

    As i said at the beginning of this post i really hope we do see a big shakeup of billing processors and PPS sponsors because until that happens, nothing is going to change and affiliates will start demanding more and more and more and more....

    Regards,

    Lee


  6. #6
    Hot guys & hard cocks Squirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I would love to be able to pay affiliates on a sliding scale based on how many sales they actually send...
    Getting affiliates to work harder, for less money, would be a difficult task. I don't want to work harder for less money, I don't see why they would either.

    If a sponsor is concerned about paying out 50% or more to affiliates it would be wise to put more time into SEO optimization, going straight to the traffic source, unfortunately when you do that you realize how much effort affiliates put into getting traffic to you :high: They do earn their money and those who are low in sales one day can be a big traffic source the next.
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  7. #7
    You do realize by 'gay' I mean a man who has sex with other men?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt View Post
    Getting affiliates to work harder, for less money, would be a difficult task.
    Exactly the point being made Squirt.

    Right now, affiliates arent working and getting paid more money.

    Why should an affiliate who only sends 1 sale a month get paid the same amount as an affiliate who sends 100 sales a month?

    It just doesnt make any sense LOL

    Regards,

    Lee


  8. #8
    marcjacob
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    They dont get paid the same, they get paid the same %. Theres a difference. They get what they put in, the more they work the more they make. I think that if you offered this sliding scale youd loose alot of affiliates and fail to attract new ones. The big boys probably dont want to pay $40 per sign up, they have to if they are going to remain competetive.

    That said we'd all prefer 40% with kick ass ratios and rentention than 60% programs that dont sell and dont retain.

    I think my sales are worth 50%. They wouldnt get my customers if i didnt send them and for that you have to pay. If the sponsors dont like that then get your own customers and dont run a program.


  9. #9
    Hot guys & hard cocks Squirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Exactly the point being made Squirt.

    Right now, affiliates arent working and getting paid more money.

    Why should an affiliate who only sends 1 sale a month get paid the same amount as an affiliate who sends 100 sales a month?

    It just doesnt make any sense LOL

    Regards,

    Lee

    As a sponsor, every sale has the same value. Affiliates bringing in 1 sale a month will get paid less then one bringing in 100 sales a month, regardless of the sliding scale.

    The last thing we need is affiliates desperate to make a sales quota to get a small percentage increase in revenue, while working harder for less money.

    ------------ EDIT ----------
    looks like Marcjacob echod some of the same thoughts as I was writing my response
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  10. #10
    You do realize by 'gay' I mean a man who has sex with other men?
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcjacob View Post
    I think my sales are worth 50%. They wouldnt get my customers if i didnt send them and for that you have to pay. If the sponsors dont like that then get your own customers and dont run a program.
    You also wouldnt make any money.

    What would happen is EVERY single sponsor suddenly decided tomorrow that they will only pay out 25% per sale?

    You are saying that you will leave the industry and not promote them because your traffic is worth 50%.

    There is traffic that isnt worth even 25% of a sale, 404 traffic, CJ traffic, console traffic (after a point) even some TGP traffic.

    The point being made is this, if sponsors didnt cater to the affiliate that constantly wants more and more money by doing less and less work, we'd ALL be making more money.

    Consider this, lets say you make 10 sales a day and someone else makes 10 sales a day.

    You make your 10 sales from AEN sites, the other affiliate makes their 10 sales by simply linking to an RSS feed.

    Do you think it is 'fair' that you do more work and get paid the same as someone that does nothing but link to an RSS feed? I certainly dont, in my view, you should be getting paid more than the person linking to the RSS feed because YOU are actually working for your money.

    Regards,

    Lee


  11. #11
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    I think that the affiliate business model has hurt the industry as a whole... Many sites out there are nothing but big databases of the same old tired models, being recycled with pretty new cover pages... and the sales are generated in a 'throw it against the wall and see what clicks' basis.

    This isnt quite so free on the gay porn side, but straight porn? The whole affiliate / free porn / new site every week is literally killing the goose that laid the golden egg... and has robbed the industry of fresh new ideas. Every straight porn site looks like every other straight porn site.... because the whole business focus isnt on content - its on feeding the affiliate monster!

    And yes - there are sponsors out there who are really good.... but then, there are those who want you to redesign your entire business model just for THEM (and make it just like every other cookie cutter site out there...)

    Our sites do very well. It took a lot of persuasion on my part to convince my boss to even allow me to open up for some sponsors. The sponsors we DO have - they do great. I don't mind a BIT paying them 50%. However, if my entire day were spent doing nothing but building free sites for them, FHG's, new banners, new tours, new this and that... I would have NO time to give them a great site to sell!


  12. #12
    You do realize by 'gay' I mean a man who has sex with other men?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt View Post
    As a sponsor, every sale has the same value.
    You are right, $29.95 is $29.95 whoever makes the sale but, we arent talking about monetary values, we're talking about the value of an affiliate.

    Id much rather have 100 affiliates sending traffic to the tours through text links than 100 affiliates sending traffic to the tours via FHGs any day.

    There is also a reason that some sponsors pay less for 'console free' tours, the reason is that not all traffic is of the same value.

    Regards,

    Lee


  13. #13
    Hot guys & hard cocks Squirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Do you think it is 'fair' that you do more work and get paid the same as someone that does nothing but link to an RSS feed?
    One of the basic mottos of business is to work smarter not harder.

    You're also contradicting yourself as a sliding scale payment method for affiliates doesn't address how hard they work, only the shear volume of sales, so someone working smarter can easily make more money then someone working harder. Also, as a sponsor, if you did all the work affiliates did, you would make 100% on a sale instead of 50%, but you work smarter by having others bring traffic to you and giving them 50% of the sale :moneybags:
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  14. #14
    marcjacob
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    You also wouldnt make any money.

    What would happen is EVERY single sponsor suddenly decided tomorrow that they will only pay out 25% per sale?

    You are saying that you will leave the industry and not promote them because your traffic is worth 50%.

    There is traffic that isnt worth even 25% of a sale, 404 traffic, CJ traffic, console traffic (after a point) even some TGP traffic.

    The point being made is this, if sponsors didnt cater to the affiliate that constantly wants more and more money by doing less and less work, we'd ALL be making more money.

    Consider this, lets say you make 10 sales a day and someone else makes 10 sales a day.

    You make your 10 sales from AEN sites, the other affiliate makes their 10 sales by simply linking to an RSS feed.

    Do you think it is 'fair' that you do more work and get paid the same as someone that does nothing but link to an RSS feed? I certainly dont, in my view, you should be getting paid more than the person linking to the RSS feed because YOU are actually working for your money.

    Regards,

    Lee
    I wouldnt quit the industry, id build a paysite and get what my traffic is worth. work solely for myself.

    I think its fair that the rss guy makes his money. Im learning now that i need to work alot smarter to get more done. If hes allready doing that than fair play.

    You seem to think your affiliates are lazy and overpaid? I work really hard as a sole affiliate webmaster. Some programs i do great at and some i just cant sell but i do work hard to get my money.


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    You are right, $29.95 is $29.95 whoever makes the sale but, we arent talking about monetary values, we're talking about the value of an affiliate.
    You are talking about monetary values when discussing cutting commissions based on volume. First you said that an affiliate bringing in more sales should get paid more, then you said the affiliate that works hardest should get paid more... neither of these has to do with the value of the affiliate, only how much money you are paying them :evilgrin:
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