Again, we're talking about top producing affiliates here, ones that can send 50-100 sales a week, ones that are already being paid on a PPS business model.Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Simply emailing them and saying 'hey we offer 50% of all sales and rebills and all this promo stuff' isnt going to work for them.
Regards,
Lee
Ideally, that's definitely how it should be.
Unfortunately I think a lot of affiliates are not like that. Many newer affiliates entering in to an environment in which 50% is the base paradigm end up demanding even more. I actually have a little folder in my email that contains 8 emails from affiliates who I either emailed asking if they'd be interested in promoting us or that emailed me before or after signing up for our program (and before they'd sent a single surfer) saying they'd only promote us if we started them out at 65%.
:eek:
I kept the emails in case I ever wanted to contact them again (but haven't done that).
A lot come around saying "I want more than 50%" because 50% is the starting point, pretty much. It might as well be 0% in the eyes of many. PPS amounts get higher and higher, %'s offered get higher and higher, all because the bar keeps going up and up and up in trying to appeal to webmasters.
At the same time, I think a lot of this actually hurts adult sites' over ability to convert. When the structure and format of a site is manipulated or set up in ways to benefit affiliate webmasters but that burn surfers (the popups, exit consoles, overwhelming upsells and such that might be necessary to justify or enable massive PPS amounts along with raised signup fees to make for higher affiliate commission amounts, pricing structures that may make surfers wary or uncomfortable, so on so on)
CorbinFisher's Amateur College Men
Interestingly no one has even really put their finger on the basics of our profession. Why do adult membership sites pay us 50% on sales? Whereas, why does Amazon only pays me a mere 7.5% on sales of the Almanac of American Politics?
Affiliates are compensated for their marketing effort. We are marketers, not franchisees, not tricksters manipulating the web.
Why do adult affiliate programs pay 50%, while mainstream programs pay much less? The reason is because their marketing costs and values are higher. Why is it higher? Because of the rules of supply and demand.
When Stephen King or John Grisham write a new book, they have about 10 million more marketing options than Corbin Fisher, Randy Blue or Falcon Studios.
They can appear on Oprah, Larry King or NPR. Matthew Lesko can sell his crazy books via middle of the night cable TV. Sony can put its products in the new James Bond movie.
Adult companies are far more restricted in their promotion options. Thus, the cost of their marketing is higher. (the rules of supply and demand) This is also why VISA can charge that magic $750 to adult companies.
In the adult world, costs are higher, but so are potential profits.
Keep that in mind when looking at Brian's two initial questions: "Is that really only worth 50% compared to the effort of an affiliate who may or may not have done anything more than just throw up a banner on their site and happened to send a surfer your way? should all be getting 50% or these huge PPS? "
and
"As a sponsor, do you look at every referred sale and think "There was no way I could have gotten that sale myself, and so eagerly pay out that 50% or huge PPS chunk"?"
One additional note: If you are unhappy with affiliates making unworthy money from pop-ups or exit consoles then PROHIBIT THEM. Make use of your terms and conditions. I've mentioned often how practically non-existent terms and conditions are in the adult affiliate world. Wall Street Journal's affiliate terms prohibit me from buying Google Ads in their name, promoting them in emails and in many other areas.
Steve
They wont change their t & cs because they want the sales. Bottom line.
People will moan and whine about paying out 50% to affiliates and about rss and "throwing up a banner", but i dont see anyone refusing those sales.
Yes you could get every sale i make yourself. Times that by hundreds of converting affiliates and it becomes harder. Even if you can do that, surely the money we bring in is still a valuble revenue source.
I think that has a lot to do with profit margin. Amazon can't give an affiliate 50% of a sale because they probably only make 10-20% profit from the sale themselves. If they make 15% profit from the sale of a book and they give an affiliate 7.5% they are paying 50% profit share.
That's true but retailers of mainstream products have much more competition. They can't expect to earn 50% profit on any item they sell because someone nextdoor will sell the product at a lower cost and earn only 40% profit... and so on until someone like Walmart will sell the product for only 5% net profit.
I worked in the grocery industry for most of my life. And for a grocery retailer to earn 3% net profit was excellent.
Any sponsor who doesn't like paying out 50% can find ways to screw the affiliate. Half the time it's right out in the open, but most affiliates don't even realize it's hurting them.
BD, how about telling us what % of your 1 month no rebill members that are referred by affiliates sign right back up? Fratmen admitted right on this very board that "most" sign right back up. In a way isn't that taking rebills away from affiliates, thus in effect paying them less than 50% overall?
I post here to whore this sig.
I think that some sponsors see affaliates as "just" a traffic source. Affiliates are actually your salesguys and they put in a lot of time and effort to sell your product. I think the 50% is very fair. Affiliates have to invest in domains, software, writing salestext, etc...
The smaller affiliates, who are not sending one sale in a week, might be selling 10 memberships to your competitor. You can't judge an affiliate on your own stats, as most affiliates have dozens of sponsors. Looking at my own situation; I make several sales a day with some sponsors, while there are sponsors I only make one sale a month with. Of course I send more traffic to the first category.
The affiliates that only put up a banner actually gets less rewarded than the affiliates that think about there SEO and salestexts. The banner proberbly converts 1:3000, while a good salestext can convert 1:200. In that way an affiliate gets paid by the effort and time he is putting in. To become a succesful affiliate you have to work hard, be smarter than your competition and spend a lot of time.
In the end, I know the affiliate needs the sponsor to be succesful, but the sponsor needs the affiliate as well.
Lee i think ive realised what your saying (how long did that take). I think your right about the minor 5 clicks a day webmaster.
What id point out is that some of my sponsors get good sales, some get a few a month or less, some get none but maybe get a couple of clicks a day. The reason for this is that i have in the past started with a sponsor then seen something i dont like or changed my mind. Their getting the few last clicks from galleries i built a while ago. That doesnt mean that i cant sell, it means i dont want to sell for those sponsors.
I guess contacting affiliates and offering to help them increase sales may benefit. Why not point them towards this board so like me, they can learn?
(i never made much before starting here - this board can help webmasters like its helping me)
You made the point alot better me :egg:
The Corbin Fisher site wants to be exclusive. Exclusive: 1. admitting only members of a socially restricted or very carefully selected group 2. disposed to resist the admission of outsiders to association, intimacy, etc.
Elitist: 1. Consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.
It's basic english, not a sense of entitlement that exists all over the affiliate world
I'm floored at what you and Lee are painting affiliates out to be. Six years of being a sponsor and I don't have the antagonism you guys have for affiliates. Antagonism: The condition of being an opposing principle, force, or factor. :pimp:
Brian, this is a good idea for a story. You should write it as a guest columnist for AVN Online.
**************************************
Ken Knox (aka "Colt Spencer")
Entertainment Journalist/Porn Writer
AIM: KKnox0616 / ICQ: 317380607
www.avnonline.com
www.HollywoodKen.com
www.myspace.com/xxxwriterdude
hehe you're the writer. I think we should instead look forward to an article from you on such a subjectBrian, this is a good idea for a story. You should write it as a guest columnist for AVN Online.
CorbinFisher's Amateur College Men
That's all well and good and of course happens. Certainly affiliates would have sponsors that perform much differently for them then others.
I think it behooves both the sponsor and affiliate, especially given circumstances the likes of which you outlined, for strategic partnerships to exist between sponsors and affiliates that do best for one another, as opposed to blanket policies existing regardless of performance.
I have zero problem whatsoever paying out 50% to our best performing affiliates (in fact, many earn commissions even higher than that). But I'm having a little trouble believing any and all affiliates are worthy of 50% commissions with any and all sponsors.
We see affiliate commissions and PPS amounts getting higher and higher, sometimes with insanely high payouts (especially in regards to PPS). This isn't a reflection, I don't feel, of that sponsor's impression of the value of those referring affiliates - as much as I think many sponsors would go out of their way to avoid admitting it. It's more a reflection, instead, of sponsors competing with one another for webmasters.
And oftentimes, that competition can end up burning their surfers at the expense of trying to appeal to webmasters above all else.
CorbinFisher's Amateur College Men
PocoLoco - Right on! "traffic" is part of the weird jargon that still puzzles me in the adult industry. When I worked for Dell sales, the company would place back cover ads in PCWorld. When that made the phones ring, we didn't call that "traffic"
"Hey Steve, there's traffic coming in.... answer the phone please!"
That was never uttered. Ads generated leads. And sales reps turned them into customers. Customers is another seldom spoken word. In the dehumanized jargon we send conversions, not create customers.
Steve
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