(potentially?) controversial topic - Sponsors vs Affiliates

[Squirt]

Yup thankfully we're not in a position like some others that are probably desperate for any and all traffic they can get and so that's why it sucks so bad when people like BananaGuide and JUB don't promote em :high:

OMG Brian that's not true. You must be posting on behalf of Excelsior Productions drunk... or you just post without knowing the facts.

In this thread I've addressed the comments you've made, and your stated ideals regarding affiliates... I have not taken cheap shots at Excelsior Productions or their sites.

Your attack just goes to prove that behind your wanna be elitist attitude lies a piss poor lack of character and judgement. You've dug your hole so deep in this thread you have to resort to cheap shots :bunny:

I am promoted on JUB... in my comment I stated "but I guess I'm not part of their elite 5% of webmasters they choose to aggressively promote." NOT that they didn't promote me. I also know why I'm not aggressively promoted on JUB and it has nothing to do with the quality of my content, it's because I'm not in the rat race to update multiple times a week and that's a business decission I'm happy with. In the future that can change, but right now it's the best thing for me.

As a matter of fact JUB describes my site as "If there is an Australian equivalent to Sean Cody, it has to be Squirt It. We all know that there is some primo, grade A, drop dead beautiful men way down under and this site aims to capture them on film. "

Doing a search of Squirtit on JUB brings up tons of forum discussions... an example:

Q: Corbinfisher Similar sites?

A: Other sites similar to Corbin are Fratmen.tv, Squirtit.com, NextDoorMale.com, and Dreamboys.com (coming soon).

My sleepingmen site is also promoted on JUB and has even more discussion chat then the squirtit site.

--------

Get a life Brian or at least get a job you can do correctly without destroying your companies image on boards.

Now back on topic... you are deleting 95% of your affiliates because..... :sleepy:

[Xstr8guy]

Yup thankfully we're not in a position like some others that are probably desperate for any and all traffic they can get and so that's why it sucks so bad when people like BananaGuide and JUB don't promote em :high:

Yeah, that was a cheap shot at Squirt. Not every site can be as popular, respected and as well-promoted as Corbin Fisher. And you do have a brand name that is the envy of nearly everyone on this side of the business. But you won't win people's heart with comments like that.

[Squirt]

Yeah, that was a cheap shot at Squirt. Not every site can be as popular, respected and as well-promoted as Corbin Fisher. And you do have a brand name that is the envy of nearly everyone on this side of the business. But you won't win people's heart with comments like that.

Here let me pull Brians ass open a bit more while you kiss it :goatse: :develish:

I could counter a lot of what you said in that post but I wont. Putting down other sites is not my style and wreaks of poor sportsmanship.

[deanb]

Yeah, that was a cheap shot at Squirt. Not every site can be as popular, respected and as well-promoted as Corbin Fisher. And you do have a brand name that is the envy of nearly everyone on this side of the business. But you won't win people's heart with comments like that.

I don't think they are winning the hearts of people as it is, shutting out 95% of their affiliates and keeping only 5% for whatever reason. They thing is Corbin Fisher isn't a site that any affiliate is going to have a problem deciding where to send their traffic. Its not going to be a cry fest, just a simple redirect of that traffic to SeanCody or any number of sites similar. I am sure one of their competitors isn't going to mind having that traffic.

[Xstr8guy]

Here let me pull Brians ass open a bit more while you kiss it :goatse: :develish:

I could counter a lot of what you said in that post but I wont. Putting down other sites is not my style and wreaks of poor sportsmanship.

I was defending you buddy! Read my post again. It said and I quote, "that was a cheap shot at Squirt."

[tigermom]

Because you're a new affiliate who has expressed on here, numerous times, an enthusiasm for college guys and that being something your traffic is interested in as well.

Top performing (regarding volume and sales) affiliates will be retained, but so will affiliates who can likely send quality traffic that is relevant to our site from webmasters who have unique, original and genuine reasons to want to promote particular sites.

So actually I wasn't planning on pulling the rug from under ya. You don't seem like a "throw a banner up and forget it" kind of affiliate. You're obviously a "put some effort in to it, know my traffic and know about sponsors" kind of affiliate.

I appreciate the compliments, but I have to say I am very reluctant to keep promoting CF anymore. I have been in web publishing for over six years, and adult just over a year. I am in this for the long term. I build up my sites and my traffic literally over years, not even months. When I pick a sponsor I also try to estimate whether or not they'll be here for the long term, because I plan on those pages I put up to promote them to be here and pull in traffic, two, three years from now, and even more.

Yes, I have mainstream affiliations and I know the CJ rating system very well. It's an objective, well documented system, and when you join them, or even down the road, you know where you are with them. And hey, guess what, they also rate the sponsors! Which is what makes it a favorite with me. As I said before, I have so many sponsors that I put up pages for, wasted my good traffic with, only to find out they convert like shit. When you sign up with a sponsor (aka merchant) on CJ, you can see how well they convert over the past 7 days, month, 3 months, based on objective stats provided by CJ, not by the sponsors. Sponsors who want good affiliates, need to make an effort and improve on their part too. I won't mention any names, but I know some sponsors here, that wouldn't get too many shiny stars on such an objective system...

Yes, I think Corbin Fisher is a good site. Yes, I have more than one college site/blog and we seem to have a match in niches. But my pages are built for long term traffic. When I work out a page around a search term, and gradually build up incoming links (because it's good SEO, Lee, not because I'm lazy), then it's a long term effort. If I can't trust you guys to be there for me six months from now, or a year from now, then there are other good college sites out there, which I have been doing well with and will likely keep on promoting.

[Xstr8guy]

For the record, I am not an affiliate of Corbin Fisher (at least I don't think so, ) and have never promoted them. Oh maybe I have a banner or 2 on and AVS site from 3 years ago but I doubt it. So the closing of the program has no effect on me.

I agree that BD can do whatever he likes with his affiliate program... it's his prerogative. But I doubt that it could have been handled in a more arrogant and ruthless manner. A little postive PR goes over much better than taking a cheap-shot at a competitor. This isn't GFY, btw.

[Xstr8guy]

What is happening with Corbin Fisher is no better than what Adult Check did several years ago. And the result is that "Adult Check" is a dirty word in the adult business now. I wonder if CF will treat it's remaining affiliates the way AC does? Will CF affiliates have to maintain a certain volume to stay in tha program. Or will they be given the boot and lose their rebills just like AC does.

[Squirt]

I was defending you buddy! Read my post again. It said and I quote, "that was a cheap shot at Squirt."

Yeah I got that. I was just being sarcastic about all the compliments you gave the Excelsior Productions sites in the same post "Not every site can be as popular, respected and as well-promoted as Corbin Fisher. And you do have a brand name that is the envy of nearly everyone on this side of the business. "

It's all good xstr8guy :bunny:

Just started thinking... all these affiliates getting cut off right before Christmas.. even though they aren't getting many sales it might be a lot of money to them... kind of sucks for those guys.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

Squirtit takes cheap shots at me every chance he gets on this board. He deserves the occasional cheap shot thrown his way as well. He'll make some pretty snide remarks towards me, and then tries to play it off with a cute smiley or a "Oh don't overreact" mark later on. There's a history there, XStr8. I don't mind in the least firing a shot off his bow now and then as well, despite how it may be perceived.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

I don't think they are winning the hearts of people as it is, shutting out 95% of their affiliates and keeping only 5% for whatever reason. They thing is Corbin Fisher isn't a site that any affiliate is going to have a problem deciding where to send their traffic. Its not going to be a cry fest, just a simple redirect of that traffic to SeanCody or any number of sites similar. I am sure one of their competitors isn't going to mind having that traffic.

Affiliates aren't in it to give heart, and sponsors aren't in it to win heart.

We're all in it for profit.

Would you tell an affiliate they should hold themselves to promoting a sponsor that doesn't convert for them, doesn't earn them commissions, and doesn't make them any money? Just because that sponsor's a nice guy on the boards or has provided them with a buncha cool banners?

I don't think any sponsors are accepting any and all affiliates without discretion out of charity or a philanthropic guidance.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

I am in this for the long term.

As are we, which is why trying to have 1400 affiliates - the vast majority of them anonymous, unknown affiliates with absolutely no relationship with us - isn't something we want.

Long term relationships with select affiliates, including many who may take years to start really generating results for us, are what we want.

People seem to think that a sponsor committing themselves to a select group of affiliates works against fashioning long term, productive relationships. If anything, I think it's the opposite.

When I entered his industry, I started an affiliate site and promoted various sponsors. I approached CorbinFisher.com (a new site that had only been online for a couple of months) to offer a review and promote them. They didn't know how I'd work out for them, I didn't know how they'd work out for me. But we talked, realized we had a lot in common and similar outlooks and views, and so I started promoting them. I became their biggest affiliate. I became a friend. I became their marketing director. I became the vice president of the company.

You're not obliged to promote us, and by all means any affiliate should only promote sites they want to promote and are comfortable promoting. Affiliates have that freedom - just as sponsors should have the same freedom with regard to their affiliates. That's really my entire point and I wonder what other people think about the contradiction there - the freedom among affiliates to drop any sponsor they don't feel comfortable with, while at the same time demanding sponsors keep affiliates regardless of anything, including how much it might be costing the sponsors.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

...

It wasn't a nice thing I said, Squirtit, but I just as I don't think calling someone or a company "elitist", "cheap", "thinkin their shit don't stink", a "pansy", "greedy", bullshit" is all too flattering, either.

You used a business decision we had made to start making unfair statements about us and ad hominem attacks. All of those above words you've used for me and CorbinFisher.com were in this thread alone, before my "desperate" comment.

Do I think you're desperate? No. Do I think your sites are shit? No. I think ya got some of the hottest guys I've seen on any sites out there. But do I think you opened yourself up to me using stances you take with regards to business (namely disagreeing with our changes to our affiliate program) as an excuse to take an unfair cheap shot at ya. Hell yes.

[deanb]

It wasn't a nice thing I said, Squirtit, but I just as I don't think calling someone or a company "elitist", "cheap", "thinkin their shit don't stink", a "pansy", "greedy", bullshit" is all too flattering, either.

I think alot of these descriptive words may hold true for the way you are acting in this thread. When you get on a board, hold the arrogant attitude that you have been doing all the way around, and basically downing and cutting out 95% of your affiliates (who i may add, have helped to make your company what it is), telling them that they aren't good enough for CF, these are the things that you are going to be called.

It is worth noting, that even on other boards, you don't have much of a different attitude, even asking one guy, "why get your panties in such a bunch?"

[tigermom]

I want to clarify something here, if I may. What upset me the most in this thread was the attitude, especially from Lee, treating affiliates like some lowlife (I already provided the quote that infuriated me), who are there to scam the program owners from their hard earned money.

I don't think being selective in choosing your affiliates is a bad thing. Not at all. What's more, I don't think sponsors should babysit affiliates and provide their every whim. I see programs that offer affiliates everything, from domain names to hosting, from learning tools to FHG's, movies, free content, everything! It's my opinion that this is too much and is a bad thing for all of us that are serious about making it in this biz for the long term. If there are people that need to be spoonfed in order to bring you sales, then by all means, weed them out. They are a waste not only of your time, but of mine as well, because all they do is oversaturate the market.

That said, I think that drawing the line arbitrarily and in retrospect is a bit unfair. I think cutting out affiliates that signed up and never send traffic makes sense (just email them to let them know, of course). But those that send traffic but not enough, I think you should contact them and discuss things and see where they are, what their plans are. See if they are going for long term traffic and what their goals are in regards to your program. And screen carefully starting from now, letting people know you are looking towards a certain type of affiliate.

And on a more general note, not directed specifically at you Brian, I think that if a program owner chooses to work with affiliates, then show those affiliates some minimal respect and don't go on making such insulting generalizations in boards that your affiliates frequent... If you think they are such a pain, don't start an affiliation program. Market your own sites and let us do business with other programs instead.