I agree scheduling this in October is just ridiculous. If you guys really want your show to be a success you have defintely started out on the wrong foot. Interesting how this has happened before too. I think if most webmasters had to choose they would go to the GPF. Sounds like a great idea if it were any other month but right now it sounds like a horrible idea being anytime in October.
Mark
* IntenseCash.com - If you can't convert us you better look for a new job!
I really dont think that Epoch or Patrick had anything to do with the dates, bearing in mind that last time AVN did this Pat was still working at CCBill.Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
Personally i think the powers that be at AVN have lost sync with the industry and that Paul is trying to grab as much money from the industry as possible, that is the only reason why i can think of to have their thing in Feb which was billed in part i seem to recall as a 'webmaster' event and to have another in October.
Paul F has realized that the straight side of the industry are no longer interested in attending the Internext shows as they are unproductive for them, and it would also appear based on that article Ken wrote about this years Florida show, that the gay webmaster community is also quickly coming to the same conclusion as our straight counterparts have.
Shows just arent profitable to attend or sponsor anymore, im trying to remember when it was, i think about 2-3 years back we saw a major shift in the sponsorship and attendance patterns from several of the large industry players, ARS and MaxCash dropped their GameWorks events completely and even consolidated their show floor attendance and presence, CE dropped their usual larger than life show floor presence, SicCash, SilverCash, PlatinumBucks, TrafficCashGold, the list really does go on and on.
Yet at the same time, these exact same companies who started to consolidate their major tradeshow spending, started expanding their presence and attendance to the smaller, less formal gatherings, Phoenix, San Diego, Toronto, Curacao.
AVN are basically trying to remain profitable and still manage their tradeshows however, they realize that what they have been doing for the last X amount of years no longer working, but because they have lost touch with the industry, they dont know what works so they have to duplicate the successes of others, and charge attendees for all their hard work in duplicating the successes of others.
The industry has changed in the last 5 years, AVN has been told this on numerous occasions, by numerous people, on numerous boards, they chose not to listen, now they are feeling the effects of not listening to what they were told.
Regards,
Lee
Well the Florida was always a dog as far as I was concerned. You could practically count the gay attendance on two hands.
Michael
I appreciate your comments about the launch of this new show! Basically, I felt that a show in Los Angeles specifically for the gay webmaster market would be a success for everybody. It is very difficult picking a time and location with the many events ever month and with as much cross-over as there already is. Also, securing a hotel in major cities is not simple so, some times we just have to do what fits best. I personally tried to partner with CC Bill in regards to this venture for months but, could not even get a return phone call so, I had to move on my own. I run events differently than most and my business is to support the community. Additionally, I am not gouging people with the GAYVN Summit price as that is a different kind of show and if you look at what comes with it, including the paid speakers, the awards show and the very large amount of gifts plus all conference food is paid for and more, you will see that it is well worth it. That is a show for the entire industry, not just web, and the cost of the event and the goal is different. AVN is putting a lot into these events and I think it is important to facilitate the business this marketplace produces and in order to do that I feel that someone had to build events that accomplish just that. I don't restrict business as Lee stated and I don't make it difficult to participate. We are going to have two great events and I look forward to seeing everyone at these events! Please don't hesitate to email me if you have questions and/or concerns at chad@avn.com. Take care!
Chad Beecher
Would you mind if we put that to a general vote Chad?
Im pretty sure the results will be an eye opener to us both
Regards,
Lee
It seems like a lot of response to this is that the AVN Tradeshow Group is again doing something wrong or bad. I personally, like the feedback and have been using it to make change in our business as any business should. However, I am running the GAYVN events out of the GAYVN division. I am doing things a bit differently for these events to really make a memorable experience and to bring as many people together as I can by offering as much as I can and I think the participants at either of the two events will experience that. Again, I would love to chat with anyone about these events or anything related to the industry, so please don't hesitate to email me at chad@avn.com. Take care!
Chad Beecher
I'd like to chime in here. I've seen the comments about AVN being out of touch and the comments on the cliques.
Anyone is invited to participate and be part of our shows and events. Our group has had a lot of conversations and we've done a lot of planning to create different productive and enjoyable business events in both the summit in February and the retreat in October.
When I came over to AVN almost two years ago it was because of Paul's commitment that he has had in the past and continues to give the Gay Adult Industry.
Before GAYVN became its own magazine there were at time only 3 advertisers supporting the Gay section but yet there was always plenty of editorial coverage of our industry as well as his commitment to continue to throw the GAYVN Award show as a thank you party to our industry.
With GAYVN now it's own division under Chad, we have worked even more closely with companies not only on the video side but as the industry is changing and the need to work across various platforms, have help facilitate more ways for the traditional hard good manufactures and content providers to create business partnerships with the internet companies.
A lot of companies have seen this value and have supported the magazine this past year and this January we are launching our largest issue of GAYVN at over 100 pages, thanks to the support of the industry.
At this summer's Internext we actually underestimated the GAY attendance and because of the support and attendance at our closing night party extended the evening longer then we initially committed for.
I am excited to be part of these upcoming events we have planned and really would like to invite everyone to first participate and then comment. Being part of the show or attending is open to anyone not an elite group of companies.
I am available and reachable through our offices all day. If I'm not in the office I am so addicted to my Blackberry that you can just email me your number and I will call you back. Before jumping to what is wrong with a show lets work on what all of us can do for the best show experience.
Jeff
I am really glad to see Chad and Jeff's input here, and particularly glad to know they are listening and interested.
The web communities and the film communities are certainly different, rarely talk to one another, and are almost completely different worlds. There are a few (and growing number of) companies that have their feet equally in both camps, but most are video companies with a couple small websites, or large webmaster programs with a handful of DVDs.
It's admirable to try to bring the two communities together, and I realize that was the (ill advised) intention behind putting AEE and Internext together in 2006... but I honestly believe that if AVN is to be successful with these events, it should really throw out everything that's been done before (including the revenue models) and re-invent from scratch, and NOT re-invent from within; the market is entirely too competitive now for an organization to create an event and hope it's what webmasters want; the reason that ccbill has been so wildly successful is that they organized their shows from the ground up around what webmasters wanted.
I know there was some attempt to reinvent the Florida Internext, and there's at least a nominal effort at that for Internext Vegas... but both of those reinventions were (as far as I know) created by AVN people deciding what they wanted to provide, rather than AVN saying to the potential sponsors and attendees "What would it take to make a fabulous show?"
CCBill seems to have that down. Ditto, from what I understand, the Island Gathering (which I've never been to, but heard great things about.)
Has anyone done any *detailed* market research to see if webmasters *want* a bunch of "gifts" vs an admission ticket that's $50 or $100 per person instead of $300? Has anyone looked at what it would take to have sponsors host and pay for the expensive parties instead of generating that from ticket revenues? Has anyone really looked into exactly what seminars are wanted and needed, then perhaps offered two-tiered pricing (as used to be the case) so the webmasters that want to network don't have to pay for something they won't use?
Maybe all of this has been done, and if so, my hat's off to you. I don't mean to come across as grumpy or negative... I've just spent many years consulting for companies who were often in the process of a product development cycle, and observed more than a few develop what looked like a great product internally, only to discover that the market wanted something else entirely, but nobody had bothered to really examine this, other than to make a few calls to some key customers.
Granted this industry is notoriously hard to get any consensus out of, but if you put your mind to it, you can make it happen. There are people who will give their time for free, if you ask, and with the right people, you can collect information from a LOT of different sources and sort it out and produce an event that people will want to go to.
I want to be clear that I'm not trying to just express annoyance with AVN; the first adult show I went to was Internext, and we've been to almost every AVN show since. I have just seen a consistent pattern of events that are growing more and more out of touch with what the community wants, while another group is producing events that are more and more *in* touch with what people want. There is definitely room for both AVN and CCBill to produce great shows, but it has to be done with a LOT of input from the communities they are trying to serve, and it should certainly be done with the interests of the overall community put first, avoinding even the *appearance* of trying to "steal the thunder" of another show.
Of course, all of the above is just my humble opinion
I don't think you have listened to the feedback. Independent webmasters have been screaming -- begging -- for you to make your shows more accessible to us. But what did you do? You moved the Vegas show from the $300 a night Mandalay Bay (or was it $400) to the $500 a night Venetian. And you booked your show in Vegas to coincide with two other huge conferences that made it impossible for anyone to find a reasonably priced room anywhere.
Your show pass is still $250 to $300 depending upon when you register. ccbill manages to throw a show with free attendance. Your GAYVN Summit is also $300.
You rarely ever have a seminar agenda posted in a timely manner, so attendees cannot make a reasonable decision about whether that part of the show is worthwhile. I'm certainly surprised that the Summit seminar schedule is in fact posted because this isn't normal AVN behaviour.
I've been to three AVN shows and seen almost the exact same line-up of seminars each time. They almost appear to be an afterthought.
Michael
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