It looks like DirectNic froze sites for a good reason

[IntenseCash.com]

What if, what if, what if.

This is a simple of case of the registrar asking for documentation, the guy not having (or not wanting) to give it to them.

If he didnt have the docs, he's stupid.

If he had the docs and didnt want to show them to DirectNic, he's stupid.

Its been proven (i think) that there was in fact child porn (or at the very least pseudo child porn) on the domains the guy owned.

Mark again, what if one of your affiliates is reported to you for having suspected child porn on one of his sites where your banner displays, what do YOU do?

1) Nothing.
2) Report to the Feds.
3) Investigate and ask for IDs.

Regards,

Lee

#2 ofcoarse I would report it to the feds and I would report it to the ASACP. I would not ask for id's because I am not the FBI, a lawyer or judge. It is not my place to do that.

Mark

[Lee]

Directnic has locked the domain, forcing the site to stay under their service, instead of allowing them to switch to another registrar. So in fact, Directnic is forcing liability upon themselves by continuing to serve the domain.

Actually, they arent.

By locking the domain/s DirectNic enabled several things to happen (or not to happen as the case may be).

1) They made it impossible for the 'owner' of the domain name to 'change'.
2) They made it possible for the WHOIS information to remain the same.
3) They made it possible for the domain owner to still have basic control of the domain.
4) They stopped any potential transfer of the domain away from them, thus making it easier to track for any potential Federal investigation.

You have said on GWW in the past that 'naming' these CP distributors can alert them to the fact they might be getting a visit from the Feds and starting to change their information, host, etc.

Directic took a step in making sure this couldnt happen, they did the right thing by locking the domain because it now means should the Feds need to track this domain owner down, they can do a lot more easier than if he had been able to transfer the domain to another registrar and throw 'privacy' protection on the domain.

Regards,

Lee

[Lee]

#2 ofcoarse I would report it to the feds and I would report it to the ASACP. I would not ask for id's because I am not the FBI, a lawyer or judge. It is not my place to do that.

Mark

Would you terminate the affiliate? That is your place to do.

Regards,

Lee

[IntenseCash.com]

Would you terminate the affiliate? That is your place to do.

Regards,

Lee

Yes ofcoarse the affiliate would be terminated that is my job.

[JustMe]

Actually, they arent.

By locking the domain/s DirectNic enabled several things to happen (or not to happen as the case may be).

1) They made it impossible for the 'owner' of the domain name to 'change'.
2) They made it possible for the WHOIS information to remain the same.
3) They made it possible for the domain owner to still have basic control of the domain.
4) They stopped any potential transfer of the domain away from them, thus making it easier to track for any potential Federal investigation.

You have said on GWW in the past that 'naming' these CP distributors can alert them to the fact they might be getting a visit from the Feds and starting to change their information, host, etc.

Directic took a step in making sure this couldnt happen, they did the right thing by locking the domain because it now means should the Feds need to track this domain owner down, they can do a lot more easier than if he had been able to transfer the domain to another registrar and throw 'privacy' protection on the domain.

Regards,

Lee

FYI: FBI doesn't track down child pornographers based on whois information supplied for the domains they register, and child pornographers do not provide valid whois data.

They track them down by actively monitoring the sites that they run, forensically examining logs on the servers the sites are hosted on, and installing taps on their internet connection.

Registrars locking a domain name does nothing but tip people off, after which, they may get rid of all of the logs, evidence, change their connection, and abandon their sites.

If they're actively molesting children and taking pictures of it, they may then move and/or "dispose of" the children, which happens more often than any of us want to think about. The FBI's NUMBER ONE concern in child pornography cases, is to FIND the CHILDREN that are being abused, and save them from further abuse, and provide them with the help that they need.

Sometimes leaving a site live for a period of time, and not tipping their hat, is what it takes to do that.

Arbitrary actions like this by private companies can, in my opinion, severally interfere with active investigations by law enforcement, that said companies would have no idea were even taking place, and could potentially cost children their lives.

Child pornography, abuse, and exploitation is a SERIOUS, often times life and death issue, and it should be left to professionals who have dedicated their lives to putting a stop to it.

[Lee]

Yes ofcoarse the affiliate would be terminated that is my job.

So what you are saying, is that without any investigation and without any evidence, you would just arbitrarily terminate an affiliate, you wouldnt even give them a chance to prove to you they werent promoting CP, you wouldnt even ask them for model IDs, you would just go right ahead and report them to ASACP and the FBI?

I just want to make sure we're clear on this, because quite frankly, id take being given a chance at proving a mistake had been made (like DirectNic did) then just shutting an affiliates account down without any warning or chance for them to prove they were doing nothing wrong.

Regards,

Lee

[Lee]

FYI: FBI doesn't track down child pornographers based on whois information supplied for the domains they register

You are correct they dont, they do however track down the HOST and the PROCESSOR for those sites based on the WHOIS information, if that WHOIS information was able to be changed, the Feds wouldnt have access to that information.

Regards,

Lee

[Squirt]

Actually, they arent.

By locking the domain/s DirectNic enabled several things to happen (or not to happen as the case may be).

1) They made it impossible for the 'owner' of the domain name to 'change'.
2) They made it possible for the WHOIS information to remain the same.
3) They made it possible for the domain owner to still have basic control of the domain.
4) They stopped any potential transfer of the domain away from them, thus making it easier to track for any potential Federal investigation.

Their whois history is the same, wether they change it today or move to a new host.

Directnic still has their payment history, whois history, etc.

Starting to lock domains puts pressure on all of the industry. Imagine if 40 of my affiliates domains get locked and I have to provide ID's for all the models they promote. Inadvertantly my business is affected, as are all the affiliates, and we are ALL forced to do something illegal to appease a registrar, or suffer loss of income. I'm in Australia.. it's illegal for me to give model ID's to non governmental agencies. It's just a big can of worms the way they've done it. If they hadn't locked the domain I'd be absolutely fine with it.

[JustMe]

You are correct they dont, they do however track down the HOST and the PROCESSOR for those sites based on the WHOIS information, if that WHOIS information was able to be changed, the Feds wouldnt have access to that information.

Regards,

Lee

Actually, they don't. Let me just say that they have databases they keep that are independent from the ones that change dynamically like the public version of whois does.

This is all the sort of thing that your average person has no idea about, and doesn't need to have any idea about. They're tools used by law enforcement at the highest levels to save lives. The fact that your average person, or even large corporations, have no idea how investigations are conducted, or what tools are actually available, is just another great reason why they shouldn't get involved, and leave things to the proper authorities.

[Lee]

it's illegal for me to give model ID's to non governmental agencies.

Squirt, therein lays the confusion, DirectNic DIDNT ask for full model ID, the drama queens on GFY twisted that, they asked for a copy of the models id showing the models photo and date of birth, they never asked for anything other than that, no SSI, no address, no other personally identifyable information, just a picture and date of birth, exactly what we all asked for with the Mike18 stuff, yourself included.

Regards,

Lee

[Squirt]

Squirt, therein lays the confusion, DirectNic DIDNT ask for full model ID, the drama queens on GFY twisted that, they asked for a copy of the models id showing the models photo and date of birth, they never asked for anything other than that, no SSI, no address, no other personally identifyable information, just a picture and date of birth, exactly what we all asked for with the Mike18 stuff, yourself included.

Yes I know. It's just that we all are being forced into a murky area. I don't know the legalities of showing an ID, even that's redacted. I would do it to save affiliates, or myself, but I'm sure it's illegal and I could see getting tagged by the government for that and telling us we should have known better or taken it to court or something along those lines.

I'm a very "by the book" kind of guy.. I want to know right from wrong and know exactly what my boundaries are ( even if I bend them I know it's part of our industry, etc. etc. but the liability on producers, if someone doesn't state clearly what it is, is potentially phenominal. Imagine all the scenarios.

At least if they didn't lock the domain the content producers wouldn't be forced into this position.

[Lee]

The most worrying thing in all of this to me is this..

The original poster of this stuff on GFY HAS been linking to illegal content (underage stuff) and HAS even stated that he doesnt have docs for the stuff he hosts and HAS been linking to pseudo CP.

Yet people are still defending him.

DirectNic did the industry a service by allowing this guys sites and info to be scrutinized, thanks to their actions we have uncovered yet another individual using questionable content, linking to illegal sites and more.

Its individuals like this guy that tars us all with the same brush, yet here we are stuck on the fact that his registrar had a complaint he was either hosting, or linking to child porn on his domain WHICH HE WAS and asked for IDs before canning his domains, which they ultimately did because they had CP on them.

Regards,

Lee

[JustMe]

Yet people are still defending him.

I, for one, made it very clear time and again that I have in no way been defending him, or his sites. From what I've been reading, the vast majority of people haven't been either.

What I have been speaking about, is the a policy of a registrar, which has broad implications that go far beyond simply this particular incident, or even this particular industry.

[Squirt]

Freezing domains and how this can potential affect my business, and other legitimate businesses, is my issue, not this person and his CP links.

My worry is that locking domains can lead to being a very good thing, or it can lead to being a very bad thing, for the industry. With no guidelines, or concrete laws to protect us, no checks and balances, any registrar can ask any domain to provide the same, or more, or just start cancelling domains left and right, domains that have been around for years. We have no protection against the unreasonable.

[IntenseCash.com]

So what you are saying, is that without any investigation and without any evidence, you would just arbitrarily terminate an affiliate, you wouldnt even give them a chance to prove to you they werent promoting CP, you wouldnt even ask them for model IDs, you would just go right ahead and report them to ASACP and the FBI?

I just want to make sure we're clear on this, because quite frankly, id take being given a chance at proving a mistake had been made (like DirectNic did) then just shutting an affiliates account down without any warning or chance for them to prove they were doing nothing wrong.

Regards,

Lee

Ofcoarse I would investigate it and make a decision based on my findings that is my job. But in 10 years of doing this I have never had to ask for 2257 documents from a webmaster. Usually it is pretty clean cut if they are hosting a porn site etc. I am fine with contacting the fbi, host etc but what Directnic was wrong and they went over the line they never should have. Why alert the webmaster in anyway? They should of left everything be and contacted the proper authorities and make sure an investigation is done in a timely matter. This way the webmaster is not alerted and probably easier to find and the proper people can do the invesigation like it always has been. So you are saying if Google or some very large company somehow was linking to a cp site somehow the register should go in and lock their domain and shut their entire network down? NO they report it to the authorities to let them handle it and probably remove the link.

As for whois infomation who cares if they change it. You think if someone puts up an illegal site they actually put real whois info? Lets say they do put real whois info and change it who cares all the registers maintain a history or whois infomation on every domain. Plus they have payment information so I think with that information brought to an agency that should be handling this could take care of the site in the proper way.

Maybe Directnic will actually respond to what they did today but there has been no response. I think that is very bad they were at least defending themselves but now they aren't. All I know if they screwed up big time and webmasters will be moving away from them. I know a webmaster transferring over 800 domains away from them because of what they did. I am not condoning cp in anyway but usually this matter in not handled by the register unless they get some sort of court order or a cease and desist.
Some webmasters think what happened is normal but why have we never heard about it until now? Why suddenly is the register taking place of the authorities?

Mark