A Can of Worms - Paycom (Epoch)

maxpower · 01-10-2007, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by gaydemon

I just read again what you mentioned Bill.

So what it comes down to, is what words can be found on a website. Paycom / Epoch is telling you that certain words are not allowed.

So by that rule and because of this thread you can no longer link to GWW either? The word Scat now appears on GWW and because of it is in breach of this rule.

Does this not sound a bit insane? We are not allowed to use certain words on a website..

LOL you have NO idea how much worse it can get with processors, text and maybe even links is easy on a hub page but trust me the biggest processors can do anything they want, and some guy behind a desk in their office will make sure you know that. I do love paycom, and think they are making big strides now days, so if I had to change a bit of text, or lose a link or so from my hub site I would. Just my hub site though with their script on in, its impossible to play this word game in the real world

**hdkbill** · 01-10-2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by gaydemon

The rules still makes no sense.

The word scat, cp, rape... etc etc is only ever 1 click away from you no matter what you do.

Check your nearest Google.com or Yahoo.com for a very long list of "forbidden" words. So is it then down to how large the company is that have those words on their website? Google or yahoo works in exactly the same way as Gaydemon, Hunkhunter or Bananaguide. Absolutly no difference only the software and amount of users is different.

Dont get me wrong, its not an attack on you Bill, not at all. Merly raising the question how such a policy can be followed when its actually impossible to comply.

Does this only concern outgoing links FROM your site, or people advertising your site, ie inbound links?

I understand what you mean and, of course, I know that you are not attacking me. Yes, it appears as if it only concerns links FROM our site.

As for it being only words, I don't think they are that strict. If the word "scat" or "piss" or "watersports" appears on a website and then there is scat or piss appearing on the site, that is where the problem would come in.

Bill

Dzinerbear · 01-10-2007, 11:01 AM

It would be nice if we could actually get a list from the processors as to what words are banned. Not that I'm a fan of censorship, but it would be nice to know what the processors consider "extreme" so that we could each make an informed decision about whether we wish to take a stand on the issue or not. But not even knowing?

I know of several sites that have piss content and they're using the billing services of those third party billers, so one would assume that if the ccbill or epoch doesn't have a problem with it, then VISA doesn't, and therefore, it must be okay.

So what else is out there that the processors are billing for that really isn't okay?

Terribly frustrating and what a mess.

Michael

Dzinerbear · 01-10-2007, 11:02 AM

Felching is sucking cum out of someone's ass, not poo.

Michael

**hdkbill** · 01-10-2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by gaydemon

Ok, to make this a bit more interesting. I have now removed all references to "scat".

However I still have a watersports category and will remain where it is.

I would like to find out how Epoch / Paycom can justify a rule which is against the use of certain words, while being more than willing to process payments for a site that actually feature such content. (Again no offence to you Bill or HDK - i really like the stuff you make!)

So its now:

1. Gaydemon - Words only
2. HDK - Content only

Does Epoch / Paycom try to tell us that words are far worse and more dangerous than the action of doing it / the real content?

By the way, isn’t Feltching going pretty close to Scat? HDK got that as a category.. How does one decide what’s ok by paycom? Is it certain body fluids or orifices?

Bjorn,

Again, it isn't the words....it is the content. Do you links to scat or watersports link to site that actually show scat or watersports. If you look at our site, with one exception, which is being corrected as we speak, we don't mention the word watersports or piss, or pissing or urnination, nor do we mention it in any of our video descriptions or photos. For that reason, VISA would not know if a film contained it or not. And, keep in mind, it isn't Paycom who created the rules, they apparently came from VISA.

As I mentioned earlier, we received a notification from our online merchant account quite a while back, that if they or VISA were to discover that we had any content which depicted watersports, or what they called, "urination", our merchant account would be closed immediately and without notice.

So it isn't just the words. It is the content if it is shown. The words just make VISA and Epoch and CCBill look further until they find the content.

Bill

**XXXWriterDude** · 01-10-2007, 01:46 PM

There's no better guy in the business than Rand over at Epoch. As far as I know the other guys are great, too.

By the way, Paycom is no more. That brand has been discontinued. It is now simply Epoch. See the story on AVNOnline.com.

**DEVELISH** · 01-10-2007, 02:22 PM

After Verotel dropped me for whatever ache they had with me Epoch was very friendly and FAST as hell to look at my application - took like a week to be accepted and that was with the time differences our locations have. Frank at Epoch is VERY helpful - as is Randy

Thanks again

DEVELISH

**hunkhunter** · 01-10-2007, 06:19 PM

Nice people do make stupid rules and policies.

maxpower · 01-10-2007, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

There's no better guy in the business than Rand over at Epoch. As far as I know the other guys are great, too.

By the way, Paycom is no more. That brand has been discontinued. It is now simply Epoch. See the story on AVNOnline.com.

When they stop putting Paycom on thier join page I will stop calling them that

**basschick** · 01-10-2007, 08:33 PM

both ccbill and epoch have rules that don't make sense. why? because visa makes no sense, and neither does mastercard. mastercard actually has the craziest rule of the two. since both epoch and ccbill must work with those two cards, they do their best to comply with their rules, many of which seem both artibrary and poorly defined. it's the poorly defined part that means sometimes epoch and ccbill seem to be working from different rules. but they're not working with different rules - they're working with different interpretations.

dennis, paycom is epoch and they are one of the most major of major players. they are the first of the only 2 u.s. processors that work adult and are proven to pay. the biggest sites we have use paycom.

**hdkbill** · 01-11-2007, 11:02 AM

Patty,

That is the best answer I've seen on the board. It's VISA that is causing all the confusion.

While this situation with Paycom has certainly created some stress for us, I have to say that with all of my talks with them, and that has been several times a day for the past week, that have been courteous, professional and understanding and have worked with me to resolve this issues. At this point I've been very impressed with their customers service levels.

While I don't agree with all of the stipulations and changes I am having to make, I do understand that it isn't Paycom, it is VISA that is causing the majority of the problems.

It really makes me wonder if our wonderful Dubya Admnistration didn't secretly met with VISA back in 2005 and warn them that if they are processing for sites that they (the Administration and thus the DoJ) consider obscene, that they (VISA) might also be held liable. That sure would be an easy way to shut down sites as opposed to prosecutions.....just cut off the money flow.

As I said, while this has been very frustrating, it did force us to take a close look at a lot of our links and we did in fact find some that one or two layers down were linking to sites we wanted nothing to do with.

Bill

**hdkbill** · 01-11-2007, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

By the way, Paycom is no more. That brand has been discontinued. It is now simply Epoch. See the story on AVNOnline.com.

Ken,

You'd better give them a call and let them know. They still answer the phone "Paycom"

Hugs sweetie,

Bill

robin · 01-11-2007, 12:23 PM

I feel left out -- I didn't get an email from ya Bill.

I link to watersports sites from my blogs and my gay links site. Don't think you've got a link to my gay links site but you do to my blogs. Feel free to take it down if you need to.

I however make a enough coin from watersports to justify keeping them on my sites; so I won't be taking them down.

Hmmm just checked -- Actually I'm only linking to one site at the moment and that would be on my gay links site. The watersports link at the blog is an aebn video. I did have more links at the blog awhile ago... :evilgrin:

Bleah. :sucks: