Epoch or CCbill, and why... POLL

[gaybucks_chip]

I think it's also worth noting a couple of things here:

1. a number of people on the gay side of the industry had been wanting to do a gay-themed networking event for several years. AVN had shown no interest. Only after Ron Cadwell personally got behind the idea of GPF and put on a successful event did AVN magically decide to do TWO events, one of which is clearly a "fuck you" to GPF because it was, I don't care what anyone says, intentionally scheduled directly opposite the GPF timeframe. And let's not forget that AVN also tried, before they were immediately rebuked, to schedule Internext against Phoenix Forum in 2007.

2. CCBill has been promoting these events for years. They have always welcomed alternate billers; Epoch was a major sponsor for GPF, a sponsor for Phoenix Forum, and I'm pretty certain I remember Netbilling and/or some of the alternative billers as previous sponsors of the Phoenix Forum as well. For AVN/Epoch to take a stand that limits consumer access and choice has the effect of segmenting the industry, which is the absolute LAST thing the industry needs.

3. Honest competition makes things better for consumers. If AVN can run a better event than CCBill, people will choose to go to that event. IF CCBill runs the better event, people will go there. If both events are excellent, people will probably go to both. A wise approach in a free market economy is to compete by providing a better product, not by limiting competition or forcing people to make choices that don't need to be made.

I am not happy with Epoch or with AVN at this moment.

[mgillis]

I had no idea that there was so much passion surrounding this issue! At the end of the day, there are more than 2 players in this industry and each one has good and bad points.

To CCBill's credit, I like the fact that they aren't spending all of my money on neck pillows and I was proud of them for creating the GPH even if the execution of it wasn't spectacular.

To Epochs credit, they seem to have a much larger face in our industry and do support many more of our events. I joke about the neck pillows, but the sponsorship dollars help finance all of our hotel rooms and meeting spaces, so cut them some slack as we do benefit from them.

In terms of functionality? Pretty much the same - there is no magical formula/one size fits all approach for our industry. We make the decisions that are best for us.

At my company, for example, we use CCBill a bit, but mostly a third company not even argued about yet (and I'll leave the poor guys nameless for now so they don't get embroiled). But since we aren't using their affiliate programs, it's all a business decision based on processing rates.

But, keep this in mind. The "space race" that is an affiliate program never ends. Today, Epoch has the coolest new toys but next month it will be CCBill and so on and so on - so one will always be behind the other, but that will change regularly. Pick the one that has a good solid solution that meets your requirements.

[Lee]

I just wonder how many of the Ccbill votes in this poll were made by people that work for them

Ah, totally missed this comment.

Right now, more people that work at (or have partnered with) Epoch have voted for Epoch than people that work at CCBill have voted for CCBill

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

Ah, totally missed this comment.

Right now, more people that work at (or have partnered with) Epoch have voted for Epoch than people that work at CCBill have voted for CCBill

Regards,

Lee

Have partnered with? Lee is sounding like a republican spinning numbers to fit what ever he wants them to be. I asked how many people WORK directly for Ccbill that voted in the tread. Not for the Spin Doc

[maxpower]

I would like to apogees to anyone that works for Ccbill, they really are helpful and hard working people. I really never had any kinds of problems, from them other than the backing I got after they told me repeatedly that my site was fine to send to the bank.

I am the first to admit I have personally issues with the support I got after the fact, including saying/acting like it was my fought any of this happen when I worked VERY closely with them and was told more times that I can count (Everything looks wonderful to us, and if their is a problem I am sure your documents will be enough for us)

I know I need to get over it, they do offer a really good service, just after being thrown to the wolfs, and told I can not use the same content almost everyone of u have in your sites my opinion went south quick. I am sure I will get over it, just every time I see someone say how wonderful they are it REALLY pisses me off. :hmm:

[Lee]

Have partnered with? Lee is sounding like a republican spinning numbers to fit what ever he wants them to be. I asked how many people WORK directly for Ccbill that voted in the tread. Not for the Spin Doc

Okay ill post the numbers just as soon as all the new Epoch + AVN users on GWW have registered and voted.

Wouldnt want to have the numbers 'spun' in any way

Lets give it an hour, im sure all the staff will be registered here and will have cast their vote by then

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

Okay ill post the numbers just as soon as all the new Epoch + AVN users on GWW have registered and voted.

Wouldnt want to have the numbers 'spun' in any way

Lets give it an hour, im sure all the staff will be registered here and will have cast their vote by then

Regards,

Lee

I only know of 2 Epoch guys that come around here, while at the same time I know of at least 5-8 Ccbill guys. Just seems to me that everyone that works for Ccbill, was told or asked to vote for them. They really do right now run a secondary service compared to what Epoch offers, yes this might change but it is true.

I really don’t care that much anyway, personally I think with cascade billing using all US based processors is a really BAD idea. Epoch seems the most stable of the US possessors to me, but I have more “Faith” in Verotel in the long run that either one of them.

[gaybucks_chip]

Just seems to me that everyone that works for Ccbill, was told or asked to vote for them. They really do right now run a secondary service compared to what Epoch offers, yes this might change but it is true.

Max, you're in no position to say that. CCBill turned your site down because it was too close to simulated CP for their comfort, and you've only been approved to process with Epoch for a few months.

The only people who can make a fair determination of which one (if either) is better is people who have extensive experience using both processors.

We've been processing with Epoch in secondary position for a few months now and I don't even feel qualified to speak as to which one is "better."

[Lee]

The only people who can make a fair determination of which one (if either) is better is people who have extensive experience using both processors.

We've been processing with Epoch in secondary position for a few months now and I don't even feel qualified to speak as to which one is "better."

Agreed which is why i havent voted in the poll either, we only used Epoch briefly with StudMoney and i never had enough of a chance to go in-depth with their system to say whether they or CCBill are the 'better' processor.

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

Look this is the last time I want to say this, I am not or have EVER simulated CP. Personally I am VERY insulated that anyone could would say that, and if I wanted to do that BS I would. Their was nothing wrong with the content or text in my site, so said Ccbill to start with. My problem was how fast they turned on me after some homophobic guy at their bank wanted to go on a CP witch hunt.

Ya you guys are right, it might still be to early to say what one is best, but if your using NATS, or what ever and have the cascade billing option I would not put all my eggs in one basket by trussing all US processors.

[maxpower]

The processors are really the ones that are limiting our artistic expression, not the law. And other than the government are the only people in the chain I have to worry about. So if these topics sometimes make me go a little off the deep end please forgive me. I really do not have a problem with the people at Ccbill, they do run a hell of a service. I just have a problem being told what legal content I can use, and what sites its ok to use the content in and what sites its not ok to use the SAME content in

[gaybucks_chip]

Look this is the last time I want to say this, I am not or have EVER simulated CP. Personally I am VERY insulated that anyone could would say that, and if I wanted to do that BS I would. Their was nothing wrong with the content or text in my site, so said Ccbill to start with. My problem was how fast they turned on me after some homophobic guy at their bank wanted to go on a CP witch hunt.

Sean, look at what I wrote. I never said that it was your *intention* to have simulated CP, but I and others warned you that your language was probably too close to the line long before you submitted your site for approval, and at the end, it came down to CCBill and/or the risk people at their processor deciding that the combination of language (which they'd already approved) with the photos (which they hadn't seen before) made it too close *for their comfort.* The Visa regs are not hard-and-fast, but are open to interpretation. If you'd taken the advice you were given when you first posted your language and asked for input, then CCBill would have approved you. We've never had any problems with them, and by some opinions, we run fairly close to the line with Boyfunk.

Ya you guys are right, it might still be to early to say what one is best, but if your using NATS, or what ever and have the cascade billing option I would not put all my eggs in one basket by trussing all US processors.

I agree it's a wise idea to have an offshore processor. The only one I would trust is Verotel. Segpay is former IBill people and the others all seem to be pretty small players.

[maxpower]

Maybe I should have removed any images from my tour that looked under 25 or should call the twink guys Men or something, but like you said I really thought your tour was much worse than the one I offered them at first. Not that I think your trying to push CP in anyway, but the similarity in text are undeniable. In fact I got the whole (School Boy) stuff from you to start with, and they did not even see that text, or any other the other questionable text you guys had a problem with.

In fact I did lesson to you guys, even more that I lessened to the compliance department, and removed all the text at ANYONE had a problem with, and used some of the oldest models I had in the 1 page tour I gave them.

I do love Verotel, I have never lost any sleep over them, and will probably find a way to keep as many recurring members under their umbrella as I possibly can in the future. Yes basically their bonus service’s suck, but I can fix what’s wrong with that, unlike some other problems I have no control over at all. Yes I am kind of a control freak

[maxpower]

But what ever you guys are 100% right it all came do to interpretation, and I was on the losing end of it. Not much I can do now, but learn from it, and move on. I will try VERY hard in the future to never bring this up again, because it is really not a shot at the good people that work for Ccbill. This was I hope just a isolated problem between me and their bank that really has nothing to with the Ccbill team at all. Do hope if others have problems in the future with this bank and twink/teen boy sites that they might look around for new reviewers or other banks they could use.

[maxpower]

What’s going on with the poll Lee? Ccbill just jumped 12 votes when they where just about tied again minutes ago? And it did not look like the votes where come from the outside to me, because the thread did not bounce to the top after each vote? Not that I think your pulling anything, its just that voting on this really does seem suspicious to me :shithitfan: