So Has AVN Made A Statement Yet?

[Lee]

About why they decided to fuck the gay side of the industry by scheduling their pile of crap show directly against the Gay Phoenix Forum?

I know Ken said he was going to see if he could get Chad or someone to make a comment but im guessing that they really dont give a fuck what we think, which is why nothing has been done yet.

I do find it interesting that when they scheduled their show against the regular Phoenix Forum last year and the straight side of the industry spoke out about it, they were ALL OVER the boards apologizing, yet when the gay side of the industry expresses their disgust at how AVN have handled things... Nothing.

It really does make you wonder why anyone on the gay side of the biz still supports these scumbags.

So hows about it AVN, do we get an explanation of why you decided to schedule your show against the Gay Phoenix Forum or do we just get told to go fuck ourselves yet again by you?

Id also be interested in knowing how much you intend to bilk attendees out of for a 'pass' this time around, i mean as its the only gay show now, a pass must be worth at least, what, $500?

Also, in the interests of fairness, why hasnt Epoch made a statement yet either? Im guessing they want our business, but as with AVN, when it comes to explaining their actions to us in public, they really dont give a fuck about us either

Regards,

Lee

[CorbinFisher_BD]

Yeah, it isn't just AVN. The initial press release on the event mentioned Epoch and Cybersocket as its primary sponsors. I'm curious as to what any of them might have to say about it.

[Dzinerbear]

Well in the daily e-mail update they announced two days in row that ccbill cancelled their show. Must have been a slow news week.

Michael

[Lee]

Well in the daily e-mail update they announced two days in row that ccbill cancelled their show. Must have been a slow news week.

Or they are playing the 'damage control' game.

Trying to drum the message in to peoples heads that CCBill cancelled the show off their own backs, before 'announcing' their show and trying to look (to the general populous) like they are filling a gap.

Thats what id try and do anyway if i were in their position

Regards,

Lee

[gaybucks_chip]

sad thing is, they will get away with it if people don't keep making noise about it. So I'm glad to see you started the new thread, Lee.

[Lee]

sad thing is, they will get away with it if people don't keep making noise about it.

True enough.

The sad thing is, they probably are going to get away with it, there only seems to be a handfull of us that are publicly concerned about their actions, whilst the reality of it is, lots of people are on ICQ showing disgust at what has gone on, but they dont want to post publicly because it will be seen as 'drama'

The 'drama' label has been thrown around and used as a weapon with negative connotations by many (most of whom are involved in this AVN/Epoch stuff), against many in the industry, in order to gain advantages in business and, because of this, people dont want to be seen as being potentially confrontational, or, creating 'drama', which, just like the Pulz productions stuff, means they'll end up getting away with it on a much, much larger scale

Regards,

Lee

[SPACE GLIDER]

I do find it interesting that when they scheduled their show against the regular Phoenix Forum last year and the straight side of the industry spoke out about it, they were ALL OVER the boards apologizing, yet when the gay side of the industry expresses their disgust at how AVN have handled things... Nothing.

It's clear enough that they're not even showing enough respect TO disrespect. It's like the gay adult industry was just ... dismissed.

[Dzinerbear]

Yes, they rush into the billing threads. Really do bad they don't have the guts or the balls to show up here and address the issue. I guess they figure that, like most things in this business, people will forget with time, just like these tried and tested phrases:

"Hi, we're the new ibill, we won't fuck you over this time!"

"Hi, we didn't mean to steal your pictures, we hired a new designer who didn't know."

"Hi, we weren't shaving your sales, NATS just has so many options."

"Hi, we weren't shaving your sales, we were just trying a redirecting experiment to see if a new banner was effective. Everything is back to normal now."

And yes, boycotting their show would be the right approach. However, October is a long way off and we need to keep reminding people. There's a whole army of "are you going to next show" people who just drone off to every show.

And in the end what will happen is someone will get sucked in, and then, someone who deems that person to be a competitor will say, "Oh geez, if Joe's going to be there, then I'd better be there, too." The stampede will strart. Then there will be the posts that registration is 98% sold out and we'd better hurry or we'll miss out on the opportunity of a life time.

Oh brother.

Michael

[gaybucks_chip]

The more I talk to people in the know, the more this is NOT just an AVN problem. It stinks to the core.

While I am not in favor of further dividing the community, and believe that it is unwise to rely on a single biller, I also cannot, in good conscience, condone the actions that Epoch is contributing to, participating in, and perhaps directly causing. THis isn't just about the cancellation of one show, this is about companies colluding behind the scenes in a way that harms the community as a whole. That is really dispicable, and should not be tolerated.

Wouldn't it be interesting if, in Epoch's zeal to appeal to the gay community, their efforts backfired and ended up sending alienating webmasters and sent people running to CCBill all that much more strongly?

We did not have the slightest interest in adding a third billing solution prior to all of this. Now, I am feeling like we should probably add Verotel.

This is also a Really Good Reason why getting your cascading billing solution from one biller is a Really Bad Idea.

[deanb]

Wouldn't it be interesting if, in Epoch's zeal to appeal to the gay community, their efforts backfired and ended up sending alienating webmasters and sent people running to CCBill all that much more strongly?

I must say here, I think you are right on.... I posted in my thread ccbill or epoch and why, that I was going with Epoch as my primary biller. Now as I have it, ccbill has been paid the visa fee, and my site is going to have ccbill as the primary biller. Why? Because I don't like how GPF was done, and that is the ONE show this year that I REALLY wanted to attend.

[Dzinerbear]

I have a project that is going to be needing a billing solution in a few months, and I know which biller won't be first on my list.

Michael

[Lee]

So we went 2 pages without any post from me and everyone just *vanished* i guess its time i ask the questions again or we'll never hear from that group of companies who have so many questions left unanswered... The same group of companies who 'support' the gay webmaster community, until that very same community starts asking for explanations of their actions.

1) Why did Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch decide to schedule their show in the same month where they obviously were aware that CCBill was planning another Gay Phoenix Forum?

2) What were the reasons for Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch behind adding a non-compete to the show contract which specifically disallowed CCBill any opportunity to sponsor their show, even though, for many years, and in fact at the Phoenix Forum at the end of this month, Cybersocket is allowed to sponsor, just as AVN and Epoch are allowed to sponsor and, will most likely be at the show in full force?

3) Why, by maliciously timing their show and subsequently forcing CCBills hand in cancelling this years Gay Phoenix Forum did this group of companies, Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch decide that lining their own pockets was more important than uniting the gay adult webmaster community?

4) Why does it take a post from *ME* to illicit a response from Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch in respect of the questions many of us actually want answering and why do those responses always end up distracting from the main reason this thread was created and turning to accusations of 'drama' from the 3 companies involved and their friends?

For companies who profess wanting to unite the gay adult industry, they certainly only seem to be interested in addressing the gay webmaster community when the 'heat' gets to much for them.

Lets wait for Morgan, Karl, Ken and Holly to come back in force, hopefully with some answers to the as yet, unanswered questions many of us still want to hear about.

Regards,

Lee

[Epoch Holly]

Lee,
I have no answers, I am not throwing the show Lee, but I will be attending it. I dont play poltics and I think it will be a good show. I really enjoyed the GayVNs this year and am looking forward to another good show!
and Brian I am not assuming nothing about you or how you feel.

I honestly cannot understand this huge issue but one thing for sure a month from now some new issue will take it's place and you can all go on about that!

[Lee]

Lee,
I have no answers

Not even for question #4 above Holly?

Why did it take a response in this thread from ME for you to come back and reply to it... Minutes after i posted?

Regards,

Lee

[Epoch Holly]

Not even for question #4 above Holly?

Why did it take a response in this thread from ME for you to come back and reply to it... Minutes after i posted?

Regards,

Lee

LOL, I guess cause we all listen and read what you say. I was actually out and came back to check the thread, I may disagree with most on this but I do enjoy and appreciate the discussion and the ability to have a forum where you can disagree!