Well our government isn't tapping all of our phones, we don't have the RCMP issuing administrative warrants without judicial review, nor does CSIS operate any secret prisons... guess you do have more freedoms right?As Americans, we enjoy many more freedoms than you do in Canada, and I suspect that is partially because we have our Constitution, which includes the right to bear arms.
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Hey, its not like we elected him. But hey, I would rather have tapped phones and secret prisons in Africa and Cuba than get shot in the back of the head at point blank range for drinking a beer in public.* I guess that is just personal preference.Originally Posted by gaystoryman
Umm...the last year I can easily find numbers for (2005) the Canadian government reported 548 homicides, so it would be closer to 6%, not 25%.32 people were killed today at Virigina Tech.. nearly 25% of Canada's entire murder rate,
But hey, don't get me wrong...I love Canada...especially maple syrup, hockey, and that space needle thingie.
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*http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution...No_Charges.htm
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:whip:
What 'freedoms' do Americans enjoy that Canadians and Europeans do not? I am currently living in Italy, and I havent noticed any fewer freedoms here - oh... except perhaps the freedom to not be afraid all the time.As Americans, we enjoy many more freedoms than you do in Canada, and I suspect that is partially because we have our Constitution, which includes the right to bear arms.
Believe it or not, I actually am not anti-gun (though I think we need stricter licsensure - like for driving)
But this whole notion that Americans have about 'enjoying more freedoms' over Canada and Europe is complete and total BS.
Well, the obvious one for this thread is the right to own whatever fucking gun we want. Try to go down to your local Italian Wal-Mart and pick one up...or even two or three.
Maybe try to get something semi-automatic, hollow point rounds, and has no hunting purpose whatsoever.
My guess is that they will tell you no.
:p
Anyway, my original point was that citizens should be able to own guns so that the government always remembers that we have them. Nothing more, nothing less.
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:whip:
Well... Italy. Hmmmm..... setting aside famous examples of Italy's corruption at the government and judicial level (wouldn't freedoms be abridged if you couldn't get a fair trial?) .... I find it interesting that the recent decision overturning COPA illustrates that even laws passed by Congress cannot abridge our freedom of speech.
If an identical law passed the parliaments of Italy or other countries what constitutional protections would you have? In those countries, whatever elected "gang" that runs the government has lots more power over you.
Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's. (speaking of Italians...)
Steve
I wonder why we don't work on people more.
Can you imagine being a relative of someone at that school. Not knowing what's going on or if your relative is hurt or possibly dead, That just seems so unbearable to me.
No Gentlemen...
I mean what SPECIFIC freedoms do you believe you have over Europeans? Cite them.
Besides the right, of course, to buy any weapon you like and shoot each other with it? Of course, Canadians absolutely have that right... but unlike Americans, they don't tend to use their guns to shoot each other.
I contend that you have heard the phrase "we have more freedoms" than anyone else so many times that you have never even thought to challenge it. Its bullshit.... and has been for quite some time. Not to mention the american people have a history of bending over and spreading thier asscheeks anytime the US govt uses the current "boogeyman" phrase - used to be the soviets, now its the terrorists - but once upon a time in America we were free from unwarrented search or seizure, and free to travel without our papers.
No more - now you all obligingly hand over your fingerprints to the govt, you allow the government to use your SS# as state identification, you allow police to stop you at roadblocks, and virtually nary a word was heard when the govt was wiretapping citizens or arresting and imprisoning them without trial or charges. And the silence was absolutely deafening when the US govt ifiltrated peace groups in order to spy on people excercising their constitutional rights. Nor was any word uttered when the press was allowed to become a corporate monopoly - effectively silencing any voices of opposition.
But by golly, you can still go buy an assault rifle. Bravo for you. And its nice that you believe it can keep our govt in check because we are armed. Sure, that was the original intention, but I seriously doubt that - regardelss how facistic our country becomes - that the people are ever going to mount an armed revolution. And, our govt has a history of fighting even our UNARMED revolution with extreme force. Kent State wasnt so very long ago.
I am legally able to use marijuana for personal use. How bout you? I can go into any store and buy needles. How bout you? In most European countries, gay people can get married. I haven't noticed you having so much luck on that front in the "most free country on earth".
I have as much freedom of speech as you do, and the newspapers and news sources are far more varied. There are far more political parties, so there is a far broader spectrum of political representation, and it is pretty darn easy to recall. As to corruption in Europe (particularly in italy) - I seriously don't think ANY person in the US has any justification to point out corruption anywhere else. The stench in Washington is now murdering hundreds of people, including our own children, every single day. Furthermore, all you need do is look to the Northern nations of Europe to find the most ethical governmental systems in the world.
Yes. All European Nations have constitutions. All such constitutions were based on the Magna Carta - just like in the US. Unlike the US, the consititutions of Europe are not treated like so much toilet paper, nor does anyone believe them - like our president does - to be quaint and outmoded.
That said - I support the second amendment. I believe in the right of US citizens to keep and bear arms - as part of a WELL REGULATED MILITIA. You know why no gun control case has ever reached the supreme court? That "Well Regulated Militia" part of the second amendment is a doozy.
In closing, let me also say this: In the states, I have a gun. Not for personal protection, and not for hunting. I have it for sport, and was taught to safely use guns as a young child. I LIKE guns, and I wish that gun training and gun safety were part of every school curriculum in the United States. And I wish you needed to prove you know how to safely use one before you can own it. I, for one, don't think that the constitution really states that every mentally deficient joe blow with a couple of 6 packs under his belt should be allowed to go to WalMart and buy 10 or 12 assualt weapons.
The shootings are unfortunate
And just when the Republican propaganda about terrorist was just wearing off. Of course the answer for them wont be gun control, it will be metal detectors in every school. Cameras in every building, etc. etc.
I think a lot would be done by banning small hand guns, and all automatic/semi automatic guns as well.
A maniac with a normal shotgun can't go on a killing spree if he has to stop, open up his gun and add a single bullet each time.
Carrying a 3 foot long shotgun on the street is also a bit troublesome.
I think hunters and sportsmen would not be affected by doing just that.
Just heard that as they were taking away some of the dead bodies the cell phones on some of the corpses were ringing frantically.
The point of a freedoms is to be able to do something. You are born with them --- LIKE YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION. They aren't things the government can take away from you. The right to own guns is not because one day you might have to protect yourself from the government. You have that right because you live in a free country.
People in the United States have a constitutionally protected right to engage in sodomy in the bedrooms that no legislature can infringe upon, but that doesn't mean you, your parents and friends all have that right because it carries an actionable benefit.
Monty Python's Meaning of Life adroitly captures the liberal concept of rights and freedoms during the scene where a stately older Protestant couple sit in their living room and look across the street at all the children streaming out of the house of a Catholic household. After sneering about their litters of kids, Graham Chapman explains to his wife that because they are Protestants, they have the freedom to use French ticklers, condoms and all kinds of sexual devices ---- even though they don't nor ever have.
"That's what it means to be a Protestant!"
Banning things deemed as "dangerous" has become very commonplace nowadays --- cigarettes for example... and the Burger Supreme Court essentially felt that pornography was not protected free speech for the same reason... that it was "prurient with no social benefit" or even potentially dangerous. Therefore, it was ok to be regulated or restricted.
I would suggest that the freedom of speech which includes protections on pornography stems from the same intellectual political philosophy that includes the right for someone to own a gun.
Steve
First of all... I NEVER advocated banning guns. As a matter of fact, as I said - I own a gun. And I know how to use it.
Furthermore, I pretty much resent govt intrusion on all levels. Sobriety check points piss me off no end. The use of my social security card for ANYTHING except social security is a violation of my rights. The laws that require me to now have identification on me are antithetical to the constitution. Yet, Americans - in their ever present state of delusional paranoia have systematically rolled over to whatever govt propaganda campaign has been in the offing, and given up most of their most important rights in order to enjoy an illusion of safety.
HOWEVER - the second amendment is NOT clear about the rights of citizens to buy guns at walmart. We are NOT enrolled in militia's - and furthermore, it was assumed at the writing that the people who owned guns actually knew how to use them.
There is NOTHING unconstitutional in requiring proof of mental stability (for example - a doctors note), nor in requiring proof that you know the fundamentals of firearm safety. Nor would this impact your right, nor my right - to own a gun. A "Well Regulated Milita" MEANS that firearms are to be regulated - and it seems quite reasonable to me to make certain that guns are only in the hands of people who are safe, sane, and responsible.
And - by the way - I still submit that America is NOT the most free country on earth. Other countires are just as free - and many are far more just. We just think we are because we are told it all the time.
PS - as to the porn issue....
Germany has gun control. They also have porn shops in the Munich airport. I'm not sure that your argument relating the right to own guns with the right to view porn holds any water... I can't buy a handgun here in Italy, but I can watch titties on my TV all night long.
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