Wish You Were Straight?

[Bec]

Well said Rainey, couldn't of done better so not going to try. And yes... the gay community has supported me in the best of times and in the worst of times ... and I don't mean just the adult porn gay community ... but there is a bond there that runs deep and hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been surrounded by it.

As to the thread topic, no, I wouldn't want to change. And while I admit that my teens and early twenties were tough, that all changed when I realized WHAT I was, and it was like "oh, ok, I'm a lesbian ..." and off I went with the missing puzzle piece in place and I've never looked back.

[basschick]

RainGurl, you sure brought something up that's important - community. when i was a barely 15 year old runaway (i already knew i was weird, which i didn't mind, and bi - which i didn't fully realize not everyone was) various members of the gay community in west hollywood took care of me. the community members were my family, my friends, my refuge.

when i needed counseling a few years back, the gay and lesbian center was the best place to get it. i could go on, but why? large parts of the gay community locally has been a soothing, safe and helpful presence. it has brought me wonderful friends, music, and so much.

i am currently with a male partner, but last year we went to pride (and don mike wasn't there that day - we missed him). arie had never been to pride and he was extremely impressed with what he said was the sense of friendliness there. we had a total blast - and heard some great bands - and he said he never experienced such a general welcoming at any other event.

i fully agree - and i have since 1972 when i first left home.

[Cash]

I'm straight, but I promote gay sites, and I find their conversion much much better than those of the straight sites.
I also like reading posts in the gay communities - and the tutorials here have been just great!

[DigitalJay]

Originally posted by Hammer
Unfortunately Gary-Alan and the rest of you apparently don't know sarcasm when you see it.

Yes, we do, thats just not the point, your reply had nothing to do with what my question was, and thanks to you the thread is half crap when it was meant to be about the feelings of GAY MEN.

[DigitalJay]

AND WOMEN! Sorry i hate it when i do that...

[Bec]

Originally posted by DigitalJay
AND WOMEN! Sorry i hate it when i do that...

LOL ... glad you added that ... I was about to jump on your head ... :groovy:

[Hammer]

C'mon people. Since when is sarcasm obvious? If it was plainly stated that my comments were meant to be sarcastic to make a point about how ridiculous I think it is to worry about whether we're gay or straight instead of just being people it wouldn't have been sarcasm, they would have been jokes.

And sense of community? Oh my god. Thank you so much for telling me that. Now I'm dying to be gay, because lord knows, in the 47 years that I've been alive I've never felt a sense of community and have always wished I could find one. Who knew it was only gay people that felt a sense of community and that us straight people can never go anywhere and feel like we're part of a group.

That's one of the things I noticed at Cybernet. The gays were always gathered together in a little group. Is that because they are part of a community or because they don't feel comfortable around people that aren't gay so they feel the need to band together?

Like I said before. Get over yourselves. You're no better than I am and no, you don't have a monopoly on communties or anything else that you seem to think you have over straight people.

And I don't give a damn who's quote it is Lee, it is offensive. But then again, you aren't straight so you can't see that. The quote obviously implies that straight people are plain or boring. Funny, all of you are jumping on me for making offensive comments, but when I point out something I find offensive all you can manage as a comeback is who the quote is attibuted to. What kind of response is that? I don't care if the pope said it, it would still be offensive.

[Hammer]

DigitalJay.

You're thankful you were born into the wealthiest, most educated minority on earth? You don't see that as sounding offensive? Sorry I turned your thread to shit, but frankly, I think it started as shit in the first place. Of course, since that comment is coming from a poor uneducated straight guy, I'm sure it won't mean anything to you .

[Hammer]

Originally posted by RainGurl
To your point about what possible reason would anyone have to want to be gay, I can think of many. For starters, the sense of community. In the industry, and in the world in general. I can go to any city in the country and find a gay directory. I can go to restaurants, bars, bookstores, beaches, etc. where I have at least one thing in common with the other patrons. There are social groups, singles groups, dinner clubs, gay travel companies, chat boards, record labels, radio stations, political groups, etc. all dedicated to the small minority that I am fortunate enough to be a part of.

Those are reasons for you to be happy you are gay, but how can those possibly be reasons for me to WISH I was gay? I already have all of those things.

I don't need a straight directory because just any old directory will work for me. And I can go to restaurants, bars, bookstores, beaches, etc. and feel I have something in common with the other patrons.

Straight people have social groups, singles groups, travel companies, radio stations, chat boards, etc., dont' we?

So, what the heck is your point?

The only thing that would be differenet for me if I was gay would be that I'd be having sex with a man and dealing with narrow minded straight people, ridicule, persecussion and less legal rights than straight people have.

Unfortunately all of you are seeing me as one of those narrow minded straight people instead of someone that respects you as much as anyone else and is trying to make a point.

[DigitalJay]

Hammer,
What I said definately was not offensive! I was referencing statistics that I have looked up and had a sense of pride about, the ability to overcome personal battles etc. I didn't find anything wrong with your post except that it didn't answer my question because you cannot relate to the question, and the part about pets was in extremely poor taste, extremely poor!

I have nothing at all against you. and nobody is going to gang up on you or anything; but you are classifying and stereotyping left and right in your responses too. I am equally comfortable around straight men and women as I am bi/gay/asexual whatever the fuck anyone can be, it isn't ever about that, and it shouldn't ever be about sexual preference. I don't really care, stereotype, everyone else does (see?), it's easier to lump people into groups than consider them each individually right? I don't have a problem with that, it happens, just consider it a personal handicap and don't let it hurt other people's feelings like you did in this case please, and don't ever do it again on a thread I started!

ps I find the vanilla thing kind of offensive too, we are all pretty damn vanilla underneath it all, its the sprinkles and toppings that count
and the "gay marriage is our pearl harbor" one rubs me the wrong way too, i'm not sure why but I think it is because I don't want to equate so much death and destruction being responded to with death and destruction with a human rights movement. Thoughts of Horishma and Yagasaki being visited on anti-gay's will never be a part of my mental make-up.

[Hammer]

Gay marriage and Pearl Harbor? What the heck are you talking about? I never said anything about Pearl Harbor.

As for the stereotypes I'm using. How many different ways can I say I know they are stereotypes and that's why I'm saying them. That's what sarcasm is. I'm saying things that are obviously ludicrous to make a point. That's why I said I have a strong sense of fashion, like to cook, etc. Those attributes are no more gay than they are straight and are obviously stereotypes. That was my point. Obviously since I'm not gay and have those traits it isn't true that only gay men have them. I know plenty of gay men that are slobs and don't have a clue how to cook and hate Cher. Get it? I understand those are stereotypes.

Taking offense to something is all in how we perceive the statement, as you have made clear. You don't find quoting so called statistics that say gays are richer and smarter as a group than straights offensive. I do. I don't find stating that gays can't legally marry and that would be one good reason for not wanting to be gay offensive and yet, obviously the rest of you did.

[Pixxxel]

I'm normally a lurker here but every once in a while I like to add my two cents, for what it's worth.

I hate to be the devil's advocate (well, no actually I don't), but I'm going to have to stick up for Hammer a bit.

First, I think it was pretty rude and bias to say that Hammer shouldn't have posted in this thread. Much like the GLTB people on this board have an opinion on whether they wished they were straight, straight people can also be enlightening about their thoughts on the idea. Now whether you agree with what he said or not, it's true. He doesn't want to be gay because of the hardships that many of you (and I as well) have faced. That is a very plausible argument, and it works for him, and I guarantee that most straight people wouldn't want to be gay because of some of those same reasons. It's like me saying that I wouldn't want to be living in Iraq right now, because I might die. That's not to say that I'm making fun of people who are dying in Iraq, it's a statement that I wouldn't want to be one of them, that I am thankful that I do not have to worry about the problems they are faced with. He doesn't want to be gay because there are drawbacks, and you all know there are drawbacks, so it's fair to assume that someone who isn't hindered by the same draw backs that you are (and I'll repeat: I am), would not want to be like us. It makes sense to me, and I don't see where that's offensive.

And then you (plurally) took offense to his comment about having your pets as children. Is it not true? Do not many of you think of your pets as children for obvious reasons? Is your life really complete? Or is there a reason that we have pride marches, that we march the steps of our town halls, state capitols, and even the white house? Are we doing this merely for something to do, or are we (as I think we are) doing this to gain completness in our lives. Equality for us. The ability to be married, the ability to have children, the ability to live out the American dream (for those that live in America). And I'm not saying that our lives are not complete, or that we cannot be happy without these things, but are these not the things that we're looking for to make us MORE happy, and MORE complete?

Why should you get angry when a straight man realizes the struggles that GLTB people and couples face today in this world, and understands that HE would not want to go through it? That is a great thing in this country. Someone who understands, and whether it is obvious or not, people who understand us are more likely to help us rather than hinder us.

I'm going to get off my soap box now, as I've thrown in more than my fair two cents, but I hope that you'll take this as an opportunity to look at Hammer's post from a different perspective, and see the positive rather than the negative. Concentrate on the rainbow, not the rain that brought it.

Michael

[DigitalJay]

Originally posted by Hammer
Gay marriage and Pearl Harbor? What the heck are you talking about? I never said anything about Pearl Harbor.

Look at the quote between your name on posts and your pic, silly! I was talking about those quotes, to everyone, not you, jeez you are pretty dense.

[DigitalJay]

Hammer, I was referring to you addressing us collectively in the rest of your responses, not your original post, as being stereotyped generalizations. Such as us "huddling together in little groups" As far as I know, that would be considered getting to know people who know the market you work in. Anyway, i'm done talking about it with you.

Pixxxel:

He said that he is legally married , has kids, and dosn't need pets to make his life feel complete. To me that is rubbing it in our collective faces. I would never walk up to a black man and go "Jeez, it must suck to be turned down for jobs by racists. I'm sure glad I don't have that problem." etc. The question of my post and poll was "If you could be straight, would you?" Not, "If you could be gay, would you?" therefore he could have saved his opinions for a thread that asked for them, that's all I meant by saying he shouldn't have posted. Now, let's please move on it wasn't offensive to me, just annoying, and i'm aggravated that a nice guy that I respect stated that he felt like he had been "slapped in the face" when he read it.

If anyone else has an opinion on the original question, I'd love to hear it, after all that WAS the purpose of this thread!!!

[Hammer]

Thanks Pixxxel.

To the rest of you. I meant no offense with any of my remarks (even the one about the pets) and I apologize to those of you that were offended.

I do think I deserve some credit for helping this thread get to 4 pages so quickly though. Sometimes, shit stirrers are good for business. :grin: