All You Producers - Duo Sex Scenes...

[GPallan]

Hey Guys.

I'm an amateur video producer and so far i've only been producing Solo content but now I'm getting to the point where i'll be getting into Duo Sex Scene videos so just wanted to ask all you experts out there what's necessary for such a video.

The videos will be of guys engaged in guy-guy sex (oral, rimming, toys, and anal). What's necessary in terms of the models safety and legal issues? They'll of course be using condoms for the anal scenes but not for the oral or rimming scenes.

My BIG question is...Will they still need to get tested even though we'll be using condoms? What do most other studios require?

If getting tested is a MUST...then...What should i be asking the guys to get tested on? Is a HIV and Syphilis test enough? Or do they also need a STD test, too? What do most studios do?

Thanks a bunch guys!!

[GPallan]

what do you guys do when shooting duos?

I mean you'll have sex with a total stranger but you'll use a condom and feel safe about it...so wouldn't it be the same with shooting videos? Wouldn't the use of condoms eliminate the need for HIV/STD tests?

Don't get me wrong...i want to do everything that i can to have a professional and safe shoot...but just wanted to get some of your opinions.

[gaybucks_chip]

We require models to certify in writing when they were most recently tested and the results, and what risky behaviors they have behaved in before or after most recent testing. They also sign a disclaimer that says that they know that they are engaging in behavior that is potentially risky, even though we require safer sex practices.

We believe that by making them certify both test results and behavior, (which we will make available to the other models upon request) we're providing as informed a consent as is possible to provide.

The whole testing issue is of limited value, since the latency period is not less than 2 weeks and can be between 90 days and 1 year, depending on whose study you're reading. In other words, a test taken 3 weeks ago (or 5 minutes ago) is worthless if the model had unsafe sex with an HIV+ person a week ago, since the model could be a carrier transmitting the virus and still not showing positive. For my money, a "positive" result means positive, whereas a "negative" result might mean negative, or might mean "positive, but not showing up yet." And the more that we've talked to random guys 18-22 during chat, the more I am convinced that (in the bay area at least) a VERY large percentage of them engage in unsafe sex fairly often.

The sad thing is, since none of these guys were around when people were dying like flies, they don't think the disease is real. So perhaps we go overboard, but I think that honest disclosure (to the extent you can get it) is the only way to go.

[Top Cat]

The standard for safer sex in the gay industry basically boils down to using condoms for anal sex. Since the avent of AIDS most companies have also eschewed oral cumshots (cumming in somone else's mouth) but since resseach has shown there's a very low incidence of transmission through that route, many now allow them.

While many companies do require models to certify in their release that they ae free of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases, many gay performers are positive, they just don't talk about it.

Interestingly, I worked with one performer, Rick Randy, who has very strong feelings about how the industry deals with HIV. He believes companies should clearly ask performers their status and not pair those who are positive with those who are negative. Check out his post in the Porn section of his website.

I can't speak from a legal point of view, but ethically, I'm very comfortable producing scenes with performers without knowing the details of their sexual health. I am not coercing anyone to perform and I make sure models are using condoms. I am generally not working with models who are "virgins;" they know the score and have made choices in their personal lives. I don't work with models who are high (or at least so high they can't make good judgements) and I never induce anyone to do anything they are not comfortable with.

Well...that's my two cents worth!

[GPallan]

Hey Thanks a lot guys!! Really appreciate it.

I'm a little confused...

So simply asking the models to certify in writing that they're in good health and that they have not engaged in risky sex activities, is enough?

So you don't think that i actually have to get them to get their tests done?

What if they had engaged in risky sex activities? What then? Should i basically not do duo work with them at that point?

I mean some of the guys i've worked with are escorts. ??? That's pretty risky stuff but they could say that they practiced safer sex

I think i'm repeating myself but...What if they've never had any tests done but they say they're clean and that they haven't had unsafe sex? If they certify this in writing, you think that'd be enough?

Basically, how necessary is it to get the models to get tested?


My model release has a section on "risk assumption" that goes like this:

"Model represents and warrants that he or she is in good health and has no known sexually transmittable diseases. Model further acknowledges that sexual contact with others carries inherently dangerous risks and Model agrees to assume the risk associated with such activities. For consideration paid herewith, Model waives, releases and discharges Company from any and all liability arising from the sexual activities taken pursuant to this Agreement."

Does this include everything that's necessary?

[Top Cat]

I respect your concerns and think it's great you are committed to taking care of the models. Having said that, I don't think you will have much luck getting gay models to get HIV tests and show you the results. If I were approached by a small company and asked to be in a video...but needed to get tested and show them the results, I would simply say no.

I'm not saying testing couldn't happen, but no one, including Falcon, Titan, Raging Stallion and other major players, requires it.

I think testing works in straight porn for two reasons: HIV is simply not as widespread in the straight world, and straight performers do NOT use safer sex practices.

And with HIV fairly widespread in the gay community and the gay porn industry, what if you had two potential models who were HIV positive. Would you let them work together, using safer sex precautions?

[GPallan]

I respect your concerns and think it's great you are committed to taking care of the models. Having said that, I don't think you will have much luck getting gay models to get HIV tests and show you the results. If I were approached by a small company and asked to be in a video...but needed to get tested and show them the results, I would simply say no.

Thanks Andy. So are you saying that simply getting my models to sign the release, agreeing that they're "clean" (please refer to my last post where i included that exact section of my model release), is enough?

Legally speaking...if one of my models comes back in a few months after doing a duo and says that he's contracted a STD (considering that he has not contracted it elsewhere) and that it was prob from the shoot, will i be liable? Considering that he's signed the model release stating that "model releases and discharges Company from any and all liability arising from the sexual activities taken pursuant to this Agreement."

I'm just trying to find the best way to keep BOTH the model and myself safe.

[Top Cat]

At this point, I really think you should try to track down a Canadian attorney who is familiar with the adult industry, ideally someone knowledgeable about the gay adult industry. Your local bar association may be able to help out.

I'm also wondering if you should re-consider shooting duos. Perhaps you might be more comfortable hiring an independent producer to shoot the stuff for you.

Good luck!

[GPallan]

I'm also wondering if you should re-consider shooting duos. Perhaps you might be more comfortable hiring an independent producer to shoot the stuff for you.

Why do you say that?

I can't cuz my content has a very specific feel that only i can produce in the studio that i currently use.

BTW...what's the big deal? At the least I can ask the models to get tested and if they refuse...to bad for them.

I was doing ok with solos but I guess shooting duos was inevitable and now i gotta do something about it

[gaybucks_chip]

Maybe I was unclear with what I said. When we ask models about their status, we're asking them to tell us when and how they were last tested and what the results were. So we *are* requiring them to be tested, we just aren't requiring a written copy of the test results.

Yes, the models could lie and say they were tested, but they could also bring us a fake test result sheet, or go out and have a ton of unsafe sex after testing negative. So we believe that our approach of asking models both about testing and about behaviors since testing is about as complete an approach as we can take.

But the advice to talk to a Canadian attorney is a good one... and having a strong, as close to bulletproof release from liability is also a good idea.

[GPallan]

Thanks Guys!!

Both of you (Boyfunk and DillMedia) have been totally amazing in helping me out, on this thread and my other recent ones, so THANK YOU!!!
You guys are awesome! :thumbsup:

Allan

[GPallan]

Maybe I was unclear with what I said. When we ask models about their status, we're asking them to tell us when and how they were last tested and what the results were. So we *are* requiring them to be tested, we just aren't requiring a written copy of the test results.

Yes, the models could lie and say they were tested, but they could also bring us a fake test result sheet, or go out and have a ton of unsafe sex after testing negative. So we believe that our approach of asking models both about testing and about behaviors since testing is about as complete an approach as we can take.

But the advice to talk to a Canadian attorney is a good one... and having a strong, as close to bulletproof release from liability is also a good idea.

Hey Chip. I just sent you a PM

Allan

[SuperDad]

The problem with testing is this:

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that it can take as long as three months after infection for the virus antibody to show up in the bloodstream.

In other words, a test result today does not cover sexually activity the person may have engaged in for the past 3 months.

Because this is public knowledge, testing would not relieve you of legal liability.

Also, since test results can be issued by an unlimited number of doctors and health facilities, there is just no way to know if the document presented is real or fake.

The CDC advises that the only protection from transmission of HIV in anal sex is the use of a condom. Because of this, no relase - no matter how it is worded - will necessarily protect you from legal liability for being negligent.

There is another alternative, but it has some risk too.

The use of a woman's condom gives the appearance that no condom is being used while still providing protection. The caveat is that, although it has been tested for vaginal intercourse, it has never been tested for anal intercourse. On the other hand, they are recommended by some HIV prevention agencies for anal intercourse.

We've been using them for video production and selling them in our website stores for years with no reported mishap.

[GPallan]

Hey thanks everyone for all your input!! I think i have a pretty clear understanding on what i should implement in my duo scenes.

SuperDad - i had never heard of using a woman’s condom for this. Hmmm...sounds like a great idea but i think it involves too much risk for me at this time. Something to maybe consider later on. Thanks!



So this is what i've gathered so far:

Test alone aren't fool proof, due to the 3 months latency period of the HIV virus, and the fact that they could be fake.

So, get the models to certify in writing when they were tested, the result of the test, and any unsafe sexual practices that they've engaged in in recent months. This is above and beyond using a condom for all duo scenes and having a section in my model release clearly stating the risks involved with such work and that the model is aware of this.

I think that about sums it up. Anything i'm missing?

[gaybucks_chip]

The problem with testing is this:

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that it can take as long as three months after infection for the virus antibody to show up in the bloodstream.

In other words, a test result today does not cover sexually activity the person may have engaged in for the past 3 months.

Because this is public knowledge, testing would not relieve you of legal liability.

Also, since test results can be issued by an unlimited number of doctors and health facilities, there is just no way to know if the document presented is real or fake.

The CDC advises that the only protection from transmission of HIV in anal sex is the use of a condom. Because of this, no relase - no matter how it is worded - will necessarily protect you from legal liability for being negligent.
.

Bingo. I agree wholeheartedly with SuperDad's points... which is exactly why (from our perspective) asking the models to provide sworn statements about behavior since testing as well as test results... and then providing the statements of each model involved in the shoots to the other models... allows the most complete disclosure possible.

At the risk of opening a hornet's nest, I believe that there is NO way to make barebacking safe because of the points raised by SuperDad, and yet I hear of some studio owners claiming that testing done on the day of the shoot somehow makes it safe. What particularly irritates me is that the models are being intentionally deceived. Of course, AJ points out that a disturbingly high number (better than 80%) of guys in the 18-22 range that he talks to admit to barebacking occasionally, or willingness to bareback "for the right guy" so one can also argue that nobody is doing anything wrong if the models are dumbasses and choose to risk their lives. But I still believe that we as an industry have a responsiblity to encourage healthy behaviors to the extent we can, and to do our best to not put our models at risk.