How Much Damage Can A Cartoon Do?

[dannyz]

I once read - It's an unfortunate fact: Not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslims.

Steve,

Well, Muslims certainly aren't the only 'terrorists.' Not sure how you are defining terrorism here, but I think it could be considered terrorism when the US kills thousands of people in Iraq for false reasons. The whole point of going to Iraq was to find WMD....there were no WMD....but the US is still at war there, spending billions of dollars a year on war when most Americans don't even have health care. All the while nations like N. Korea and Iran are still building their WMD's. And Osama is still on the prowl, or did we all forget about him already?

It is my belief there would be a lot less terrorism now if Bush was never falsely elected the first time. By going into Iraq and killing thousands of innocent people, enraging the muslim world, their hate and anger has only grown, escalating the violence worldwide. But most Americans don't seem to see it that way, the only 'terrorists' are those guys with the turbans and bombs strapped to their vests.

'Terrorism' has just become a word created by the Bush camp to scare people into thinking 'they are trying to destroy our way of life.' All the while Bush and company have turned the US almost into a police state, taking away many freedoms in the name of 'security,' and making people terrified to walk across the street without getting bombed by a fanatical Muslim. Makes you wonder who are the real terrorists? :wacko:

[Paco]

oh pleuzz.... cut the drama. that's as bad as all the canadians crying about the Conservervatives being elected in Canada. Well, they took office today and the world hasn't cum to an end. women can still get abortions and gay men can still get married.

religion is what u make of it.

things start going bad when you give up your free will and allow others to make the decisions about what is good and bad for you.

that is what is known as a cult.

Uh nice try - of course I voted conservative, I live in Alberta (duh).

cult
1 : formal religious veneration
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual

[desslock]

Well, Muslims certainly aren't the only 'terrorists.' Not sure how you are defining terrorism here, but I think it could be considered terrorism when the US kills thousands of people in Iraq for false reasons.
It is my belief there would be a lot less terrorism now if Bush was never falsely elected the first time.

'Terrorism' has just become a word created by the Bush camp to scare people into thinking 'they are trying to destroy our way of life.'

How do you describe the deliberate bombings of the discos in Bali back ... back before the Iraq war ... that was what exactly? This was before we "enraged them" right?

Do you mean to say that both al-Qaeda and the US/UK/Australian governments engage in terrorism?

What if a group of Muslims with identical attitudes towards the religious state of Iran overthrew and took control of the governments of the Philippines and Indonesia?

Steve

[XXXWriterDude]

I've been saying this for decades, and will continue to do so... religion is a waste of time, is the main reason we have war and they will destroy this world.

Fundamentally, I agree with you on this. A lot of hatred has been fostered through the tenets of organized religion. I think, however, this is due more to the figureheads behind each religion than to the religion itself. It's why I choose not to participate in any kind of organized religion, but instead practice personal spirituality.

[dannyz]

How do you describe the deliberate bombings of the discos in Bali back ... back before the Iraq war ... that was what exactly? This was before we "enraged them" right?

Do you mean to say that both al-Qaeda and the US/UK/Australian governments engage in terrorism?

What if a group of Muslims with identical attitudes towards the religious state of Iran overthrew and took control of the governments of the Philippines and Indonesia?

Steve

Well, they may not have bombed Bali if the US didn't fund them and provide them with weapons to begin with. Anyways, I am definitely not trying to say the Muslims extremists are innocent, I'm just saying both sides are to blame. I believe violence provokes violence, so the longer we keep bombing them instead of trying to resolve things peacefuly, the longer there is gonna be wars. Which I think the Bush administration doesn't mind since they want to keep troops there indefinitely and are making lots of money off defense contracts.

Cheers,
D.

[dannyz]

Steve,

One more thing on this...just my opinions LOL but don't want to get into a big political debate with you. The thing that most bothers me about the current US administration is that they try to label anyone who does not agree with US policies as 'terrorists.' How do you explain Bush arresting and holding members of enviromental groups and peace activists? Are you saying you agree that peace activistis are terrorists and the US should be wiretapping them?

Bush recently definied terrorism in the latest version of the Patriot Act as something like 'anyone who is against US laws.' (sorry I don't have the exact quote handy so don't take that quote literally). By that definition you could be labelled a terrorist for complaining about your parking ticket.

Cheers,
D.

[Squirt]

Bush is a total tool. An idiot. A talking monkey.

The Muslims, as a whole, for whatever reason, condone the kind of behavior the "radicals" are exhibiting. They condone the behavior because (gasp) nobody turns in the "radicals" after they slit someones throat, etc. etc.

The Muslims, as a whole, say one thing, but do another. That is a fact.

The Christians, as a whole, say one thing, but do another. That is a fact.

Organized religion is such a bad thing for society, especially modern society, where everything is recoreded and reported instantly around the globe.

Thankfully, as time goes by, science wears away the religious paranoia with facts and reason, forcing all of us to focus spiritually within, instead of outwards. I'll be happy when all churches are gone and people are free to celebrate the miracles around us without conditions or reverance. We have so much to learn.

Wouldn't it be funny, if in the future, the history books showed that WWIII began over some comics? :high:

[Paco]

Organized religion is such a bad thing for society, especially modern society, where everything is recoreded and reported instantly around the globe.
Thankfully, as time goes by, science wears away the religious paranoia with facts and reason, forcing all of us to focus spiritually within, instead of outwards. I'll be happy when all churches are gone and people are free to celebrate the miracles around us without conditions or reverance. We have so much to learn.
Wouldn't it be funny, if in the future, the history books showed that WWIII began over some comics? :high:

Oh, thank you very much Squirt - I was beginning to think I was the only one with my eyes open.

My posts &/or responses are not as in-depth or as eloquent as others, yet that matters not: one does not need to be able to write words explaining exactly how they feel, or a academic, to understand just how dangerous religions are to our world, as well as unnecessary. (I do believe there are a few exceptions, such as Buddhism.)
Any person whom is capable of placing their personal beliefs aside SHOULD be able to see that, for the most part, religions are what destroy our planet.

You say that Bush is an idiot, however, compared to the F___'n Popetart, Vatican City and the Roman Catholic faith, he is a genius. I say that because any person or institution that tells the citizen of a third world country that the 'god' of their religion that they follow insist they NOT use a condom, as well to continue procreating, has an IQ lower than Bush or any other creature on this earth! Thanks for opening the floodgates to aids and alowing it the opportunity to run more rampantly. Hell, the clown with the dick shaped hat should have kept the ball rolling by telling needle users to save water and plastic by sharing their kit. Is that the great miracle he performed? (I am talking about the dead mumbling dickhead.)

The Christian and the Muslim/Islam have been at each others throats for centuries and for as long as they exists both will continue to think that their religion is the one true faith! They WILL continue to attack each other all the while the lives of innocent people (those that do not grasp on to the idea that there is something waiting for them on the other side) are threatened by others archaic creeds!

Do the world a favour... evolve with it.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

I'm having a difficult time believing these protests and the violence is all the result of the cartoons themselves. These cartoons first appeared in September, and are only now starting to cause a fuss?

I think most of these protests and most of the current batch of violence comes from opportunism - the desire to vent over nothing in particular but just frustrations in general. Not to mention religious and political leaders stoking the flames and firing up their followers for purely political and selfish aims..

[Paco]

I'm having a difficult time believing these protests and the violence is all the result of the cartoons themselves. These cartoons first appeared in September, and are only now starting to cause a fuss?
I think most of these protests and most of the current batch of violence comes from opportunism - the desire to vent over nothing in particular but just frustrations in general. Not to mention religious and political leaders stoking the flames and firing up their followers for purely political and selfish aims..

You are correct (as far as I am concerned).
The ambers have been glowing for centuries and the oxygen is something as stupid as fricken drawings of some clown that does not even exist!
Before anyone says yes he is/was real, prove it... after all, there are not actual pictures of the so-called prophet.

The Christian and the Islam/Muslim have been at each other’s throats because each believes the other deserves to die, and as far as I am concerned, any fanatical believer should!

The real kicker is the hypocrisy of the Islam/Muslim... hell they do exactly what they are crying about. I am sure I do not need to tell any of you folk how the portray the Jews. What, are they exempt because of Mo?

Of course, my comments are not intended for those followers that understand that the words in their lil book are not written in stone and are not meant to be taken so seriously.

To all others... hack-ptoi

(Gee, by now I am sure some of you have realized I have 'issues' with religion.)

[desslock]

One more thing on this...just my opinions LOL but don't want to get into a big political debate with you. The thing that most bothers me about the current US administration is that they try to label anyone who does not agree with US policies as 'terrorists.'

Hi dannyz:
Well I have read opponents of Bush say this many times, but as far as I can see, that is just a general feeling. Of course, everyone's impressions are their reality. But is it reality?

Senator John Sunnunu, Republican of New Hampshire just blocked the reauthorization of the Patriot Act in the Senate... I haven't seen him labeled a terrorist. There's plenty of dissenting views.... I can think of numerous conservative pundits - George Will and Bob Novack - who always opposed going to war in Iraq. They still do, and they are on ABC and CNN every week. They aren't lebeled "terrorists" ... I just don't understand why if you are dissenting, you have to feel like "they are coming after you"

Now, as far as the warrantless wiretapping goes, I do think the feds are skating on pretty thin ice. But, that's why we are having oversight hearings and a public debate - and in democracies like the United States the governments are held accountable one way or the other.

Steve

[Squirt]

Hi dannyz:
Well I have read opponents of Bush say this many times, but as far as I can see, that is just a general feeling. Of course, everyone's impressions are their reality. But is it reality?

Senator John Sunnunu, Republican of New Hampshire just blocked the reauthorization of the Patriot Act in the Senate... I haven't seen him labeled a terrorist.

I think he's more referring to statements the president makes to the people in speeches, not the russeling that politicians do, that's their job. When the average person hears the propaganda Bush pushes they feel intimidated, scared, alienated and unAmerican if they have differing views. Here are some examples I think Dannyz is referring to:

The doctrine that says either you're with us or you're with the enemy, it still stands. And there's a lot of good folks hunting these people down.
-- Oct. 24, 2002

We have a calling from beyond the stars to stand for freedom, and America will always be faithful to that cause.
-- Washington, D.C., Jan. 19, 2005

I see an opportunity at home when I hear the stories of Christian and Jewish women alike, helping women of cover, Arab American women go shop because they're afraid to leave their home.
-- State Department, Oct. 4, 2001

[The evildoers] are hearing from a tolerant nation, a nation that respects Islam and values our many Muslim citizens. They are hearing from a prayerful nation, a nation that prays to an almighty God for protection and for peace.
-- Sacramento, California, Oct. 17, 2001

You can't reason with these people. There's no need to negotiate with them. Therapy is not going to work.
-- June 18, 2004

Well, I think that the free world is -- must recognize that no one is safe, that if you embrace freedom you're not safe from terrorism.
-- Washington, D.C., Oct. 14, 2002

Those of us who love freedom must work together to do everything we can to disrupt, deny and bring to justice these people who have no soul, no conscience, people that hate freedom.
-- Washington, D.C., Oct. 14, 2002

They're nothing but a bunch of cold-blooded killers. You've just got to understand that about the nature of the enemy. They hate us because we love. They hate, we love freedom, is why they hate us, and we're not going to quit loving freedom.
-- Davenport, Iowa, Sep. 16, 2002

They act out of hatred. We don't seek revenge. We seek justice out of love.
-- Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Aug. 29, 2002

No, I know all the war rhetoric, but it's all aimed at achieving peace.
-- Madison Central High School, Madison, Mississippi, Aug. 7, 2002

[desslock]

I think he's more referring to statements the president makes to the people in speeches, not the russeling that politicians do, that's their job. When the average person hears the propaganda Bush pushes they feel intimidated, scared, alienated and unAmerican if they have differing views. Here are some examples I think Dannyz is referring to:

The doctrine that says either you're with us or you're with the enemy, it still stands. And there's a lot of good folks hunting these people down.
-- Oct. 24, 2002

We have a calling from beyond the stars to stand for freedom, and America will always be faithful to that cause.
-- Washington, D.C., Jan. 19, 2005

Well like I said, people's impressions are their reality. I don't see how that intimidates someone who opposes the Patriot Act. And it's a shame when people spend their currency on claims like that, as that leaves no currency towards political leaders who really have squelched dissent --- like Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. But hey ... people don't understand why I think the way I do....

To me: Bush is obviously talking about the terrorists as the "cold blooded killers", not people who opppose his foreign policy. For crying out loud, the conservative as nails Conservative Political Action Conference had their big "What Happens After Bush" meeting last week, and Bob Barr talked about the civil rights problems with the Patriot Act, and the keynote was George Will. I'm not sure why I've been supportive of the war on terrorism. Before I really was more of an isolationist.

Actually, one reason I think Bush has been able to act in the way he has is because there are no competing views of foreign policy. It's one thing to say that Bush is dumb, and making everything worse... but stopping there has been the downfall of his opponents. You may not like his message, but its a message, and you know where Bush stands. (opposite personality: B Clinton, who was everything to everybody)

I've always thought the reason Bush won all of his elections was because all his opponents did was stand up and say "that's bad. I'm against it." And I've noticed Hillary Clinton is already taking a different tack....

If rhetoric that makes you scared and intimidated, check out some of the utterings from Iran's President Mohammad Khatami on how they feel about Isreal and the United States. What does China say about Taiwan?

That should really grind your gears.

Steve

[Squirt]

You read the Bush quotes I posted here.

Irans president is as fucked up as Bush, no more, no less. They both have God on their side and have no tolerance, even for their own people.

I'm leaning more towards isolationism these days. America has been on a kick of world domination through technology rights and cultural warfare, just as the Romans were, going to far is what destroyed Rome.. If we pull back now, focus on ourselves, clean house a bit, evolve a little, we have a chance at keeping a formidable position for some time to come. If we keep going like this we're heading the way of Russia or Germany. In many ways we're walking the same path they've walked. What do you think?