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hi
I'm upset and sad at the same time
US defends secret money tracking
Bundles of US dollars Tens of thousands of transactions were scrutinised
US Treasury Secretary John Snow has defended a secret programme which has been tracking international money transactions for nearly five years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5110282.stm
DEVELISH
You know, nothing surprises me anymore. :(
BTW, nice new avatar, Develish! ;)
:yeah:Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVELISH
I feel somewhat vindicated as web hosts in non extradition countries, and more dubious people, have posted on these boards saying we're safe from certain U.S. laws in certain countries, don't have to pay taxes etc.
You can bet that all the info they continue to gather will be used in more ways then "fighting terror" as the war on porn is at the forefront of the cultural battle the world is engulfed in.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Just a quick side note...
Isn't it interesting that they've been doing this for five years and haven't caught the richest terrorist in the world Bin Laden?
Also interesting that Iraq is still unstable and Afghanastan and we can't cut the people off funding the terrorists?
Makes you really wonder what is going on and why America is the only country now priveledged to have this, usually secret, world view of international money transactions. :nowords:
Not depending any actions mentioned in the above posts but it isn't just the US that track these kind of things.
The Aussie government has for decades tracked transactions over 10K.
I agree it isn't right but I don't have anything to hide so if the US government want to track my SWIFT transfers (which I use for 90% of my accounts payable) then I couldn't care less - they are all listed in my company reporting requirements as it is.
Although if they didn't it would be easier to be a bad guy I suppose.
I didn't know that about the Australian government. I'm learning new things about Australia all the time. I'm American and have been here about 4 years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by davespeedoevans
We're not doing anything wrong but doesn't mean people can peer into every aspect of our lives.
When the police come knocking on your door will you tell them everything they want to know, or will you cooperate to an extent then call your lawyer?
The only difference here is nobody has any representation to make sure their rights are protected, and you don't even know if your rights are violated as nothing is disclosed.
I'm not a ciminal but everytime I travel I'm treated as if I am one doesn't that say something about where society has changed and where it's headed?
Here (Germany) its the same as in Aussi-Land - transfers greater then I think 12K EURO must be checked with Photo ID and you have to state where that money comes from.
Still - that's within my country going out to another one - so it's local law. I do not find this ok - but oh well...
What the US - no wait - the Bush administration did was tab into another continents banking information system without having proper legitimation to do so. Just because some texan Schmock said "hello, we are the US, resistance is futile - will be assimilated" is also no proper way of aproaching a company NOR is this "legitimatin" enough for handing over sensitive data.
I am also not amused of the data handling by SWIFT since Belgium has Dataprotection Laws and the EU has Dataprotection laws as well (you might have heared that the EU called the submission of passenger data flying over or to US terreroy illegitimate).
Why doesn't the Bush Administration disclose which "terrorists" they caught or how much money they froze (or assimilated into the war-funds)? They happily disclosed pictures of dead soldiers and terrorists eventhou this was against international rules. Oh yeah - It might be because the US took a step away from the Geneve Conventions which regulates treatments of humans in war. No Rules Apply....
Why can an administration rectify each and everything with "war on terror"?
In the US you have the right to remain silent, you do not have to tell them shit “and its a good idea not to” any thing you say can be used against you after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
In the US we have the right to privacy as well as protections against unreasonable searches “with out really good reason and a warrant from a judge normally”
I do not know about Australia, but being a American I guess I assume most free countries have about the same rights, if not I might ask for them LOL
Well, you might be thrown to Guantanamo as a terrorist ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Don't ass-u-me, Planoboy :DQuote:
In the US we have the right to privacy as well as protections against unreasonable searches “with out really good reason and a warrant from a judge normally”
I do not know about Australia, but being a American I guess I assume most free countries have about the same rights, if not I might ask for them LOL
The US as well as many other countries in the world shift from being free to a be rather "controlled". Telecommunication surveillance, email reading, cams on public spaces and public transportation systems throughout the city, people tracking via cell-phones....
Would you have the balls to remain dead silent while the police (some "swat ligh" team) ram in your door, hold a gun to your face, slam you either on the ground, the wall or handcuff you or all of the above, sit you with your roommates on a table without the right to talk or go to the bathroom alone, without the right to call your legal assistant, search your whole apartement, read almost every document (including legal documents between you and your lawyers) before sacking them?
Yes I find it interesting that the EU is so big on privacy yet they let this happen without so much as a peep to let their citizens know it was going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVELISH
They haven't disclosed any "catches" because their haven't been any significant ones I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVELISH
In 5 years using this "tool" they haven't caught Bin Laden. Just another neo conservative government taking away rights by using fear to scare people into submission. I'm seriously surprised that in the new millenium this has worked! They must all be smoking their cigars giggling at how much they've gotten away with and they are right, we've all turned into a bunch of whining sheep IMHO
Where have you been the past 5 years? We have NONE of those protections anymore. Haven't you heard? The Patriot Act revoke all of our civil liberties.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Develish,
Isn't it the EU where you can't book into a hotel with a passport?
That rule has been around for decades and don't tell me Interpol isn't tracking different things through that.
And there are no US Citizens in Guantanemo - bill sof rights prevents that. Kinda interesting to note that Australia doesn't have a bill of rights. I remember a law subject said that with a really corrupt Aussie govenment that legally rights could be taken away without legal recourse.
But I've got nothing to hide so if SWAT break down my door when I'm stateside, my lawyer and I will have nothing to worry about.
The more I travel and live overseas the more I realize that no government is perfect and all governments change the rules when they please... period.Quote:
Originally Posted by davespeedoevans
The point isn't whether you have something to hide or notQuote:
Originally Posted by davespeedoevans
The point is the repercussions of your rights being taken away.
To use your analogy... if the SWAT break down your door when you're stateside and answer to nobody what are the repercussions for you, an innocent man? 1) you have to pay for an attorney 2) damaged property 3) loss of income due to their seizure of your property 4) having your arrest on record ( surely if they are raiding you they wil arrest you ) 5) public embarrassment as neighbors see your house invaded and searched while you're escorted to a police vehicle 5) time in jail for no crime committed.
Do you understand where I'm coming from? Innocent people have a price to pay when their rights are slowly eroded and/or violated. All you need to do is look at the Chinese, N. Koreans, Russia the list goes on.
Have you ever been innocent of something and falsly accused?
I have and in the end you lose a LOT more then you think an innocent person would and when it's all said and done you have recourse but are you going to waste the next few years of your life entangled in a lawsuit to be reimbursed for what you deserve? See where I'm coming from?
I think you are going way overboard, I am not fan of Bush but all this American bashing is getting a bit old. Most of the people that bitch the most do not even have the same rights in their country to start with, maybe you should work on your own right in your home countries rather than falling into your politicians BS. Its easy to point fingers, but if you look close most all this is just the same crap that china says so its people don’t ask for more rights. Just my .02