I was just wondering if I really want to have affiliates do I have to have ccbill? Do you think most affiliates do not like to work with anyone else? I do have some reservations about their company, but feel like I am painted in a corner.
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I was just wondering if I really want to have affiliates do I have to have ccbill? Do you think most affiliates do not like to work with anyone else? I do have some reservations about their company, but feel like I am painted in a corner.
In short, no.
However, if you dont have CCBill the amount of new affiliates you attract will be significanty reduced.
Regards,
Lee
How much less, less could be 4% or 95% I am not a politician I like to nail stuff down as much as possible :signhere:
Does it really matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Anything that can cause a loss to your business should be changed.
Regards,
Lee
Well man it does I could go on for like one hour but will list few
If its a really small gain it would be better to spend my time and money to do something else first
They charge like 1000$ to start up and like 15% if I pay verotel 1500$ I can get 7%
Verotel does have a more stable history as far as “rules”
I really wouldnt be that bothered about the percentages.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Verotel will be giving you 7% because they have already bilked you out of another $500 in setup fee's lol
For 50% more than what you say CCBill charge for setup, you are getting a 50% reduction in processing fee's.
Regards,
Lee
oppps :goof:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
What man LOL
I would take the pay 500$ and get 7% taken out every day over no charge and 15%, I could make the 500$ back really quick.
The percentages are what we all need to worry about that is the stuff that pays my rent
If it is like you say why do you ask around - lower feed means much more money for you... forget the increase in webmasters you attrackt using ccBill and go for the lower fees....Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
DEVELISH
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVELISH
Well man I want to get an idea of how many more affiliates I could get with Ccbill over other processors, if its allot more then it would be better to go with them. If it is just a little more then it would be better to go with a different possessor and save the 8% on every transaction not to mention the other things as well
Many affiliates do not necessarily mean many bucks...
I would be more than happy with lets say 5 Affiliates bringing in 3 sales per site a day each @ $20 before 50:50 split. Then I would try to caress them very much, give them all the promo stuff they need to concentrate on what they can do best.
That's what I am shooting for. :D
DEVELISH
Well I am going to be rolling out hosted gallerys/videos and all that sometime this month or so. Will be just a few at a time it being so new, but the site should sell good.
Anyone join Ccbill lately and know what the totally sign-up cost is? It says something about 750$ then 375$ yearly. Is it 750 to start or 1125$
I'm really really picky about who I promote through Verotel because I don't like Vertoel's interface for webmasters. It's vague, cumbersome to navigate, and slow as hell.
I chose to promote Husky Hunks through Verotel because it's a very specific niche for which there are not a lot of sites. Likewise with Armpits.com. I know I'll sell a lot of them both, so I figure it's worth the pain in the butt that Verotel gives you. However, if it's just another jock or twink site with guys sitting on a couch jacking off, I say, "Ewwww, Verotel." And I move on.
Also, there have been enough posts on here from people saying their Verotel cheque bounced. This causes me concern.
Hell, I don't even like signing up with Paycom affiliates because (a) I have to choose a unique referring code every time, and (b) I can't merge the accounts together to access one admin area or get one cheque.
But I have no hesitation is signing up with a ccbill affiliate. However, that being said, ccbill should take some of the millions they make and invest it in a webmaster admin area that is fast. I can't count the hours that I lose over the course of a year just sitting their waiting for the admin panel to do what I need it to do.
Cheers,
Michael
Well I would not worry about the check thing that guy got paid, and I have always been paid ontime.
My site will be a twink site, but if you really think about it, it will be a twink/ hard-core action site not just a twink site for what that is worth. And I will be opening like 5 others this year
I guess I am going to have to get Ccbill, I will lose the 8%/pay them 750-1200$ and have to go though many days of red tape, but until I can get a better independent stats program, and my own personally merchant account I think I have too, to get affiliates.
I really do wish verotel would get a better stats program, I really do not see why they do not. What could it cost like 20,000$ or something? Even if it was 50,000$ if it made them the best I think it would be worth it. I really like the idea of paying 7% and not having to worry about what new rules are going to be.
After all, how I look at it is that I sell porn, not cookies! I want to go as hard-core as I can with out getting people off in my tours. I really have a urge to push some limits, but with Ccbill that is a hard thing to do with out doing this gross out stuff or something.
maxpower,
If you have any questions on the CCBill signup process, please do not hesitate to call or e-mail us with the information below in my signature. We will be happy to make sure that the entire process is explained in full.
Regards,
James A
Client Support Supervisor
Clientsupport@ccbill.com
1-800-510-2859
NP thax man I sent you a e-mailQuote:
Originally Posted by CCBill James
Just because you cashed your Verotel cheque does not give me cause to "not worry." I've cashed all of my Verotel cheques to date. But I've heard more than once on this board about Vertoel bouncing cheques, that worries me. How could it happen anyway, should the money owed be moved over to a payout account and left there?
I think ccbill is a better option for you.
Cheers
Michael
I no longer sign up for programs that use Verotel. I signed up for some really good sites that used them awhile back and I didn't make a dime. When I promote similar sites that use CCbill I usually do very well. I also don't like thair webmaster admin area.
Ya guys I think I am going to have to do that, it just makes me feel like in some ways I am getting fucked though, but what can I do I really need more affiliates that’s the reason you make sites. I also know its going to be a 2-4 day nightmare for me with all these rules and stuff, I want to make a real hard-core young as possible site and in many ways they want the opposite. So this site going to be fun to see how far I can push it, cuzz I do want to push it as far as I can. :evil:
Ok, first I am in a bitchy mood. Been up all nite with php and dealing with wordpress.
Max, don't know much about you. I have been out of industry for a year or so playing poker. I guess I don't know how serious you are.
He asked a real newbie question and still didn't get the right answer.
IF you are serious about the success of your program and websites and plan on being in the business a long time then signing up with Ccbill is a no bariner. You shouldn't even have to ask that quaestion.
But just signing up with Ccbill is a mistake as well.
You really should sign up with Ccbill and Epoch. In a perfect system you should have in place a program that spreads out the members between the two or uses one as a backup in case the other doesnt get the members. It's risk management 101. As well as catching a signup that one may reject for whatever reason.
You should also have in place some geo tracking revenue model as well to capture foreign traffic.
You are worried about setup fees and mentioned you want your own merchant account. Do you even know what many banks want for a deposit processing adult? And if you do you still have to deal with scrubbing unless you go with a company like net billing, which charges fees ontop of the fees you pay the merchant bank.
Verotel bounced a $900 check I got. IMHO anyone relying on them exclusively for their business is not in this for the long haul.
This is a very personal issue for me as I started in early 1999 when porn was still a goldmine. I lost 1$4,000 a month in recurring icome overnite when DMR went out of business. You may not even know who they were.
Even practicing what I thought was proper risk management in both who i used as a processor and sponsors I chose, I lost about $6,000 a month in recurring income when I bill did whatever they are still in the process of doing.
I am not saying that CCbill or Epoch will go bust tomorrow. But even though Epoch now has a good reputation, three or four years ago, they went through a transition and were in trouble. Who knows what tomorrow will bring for any of these comapnies.
The more processors and processing streams (checks, 900, dialers, geo tracking) you have in place the better your risk management is and the more revenue you will make.
Goto any big webmaster program and click the join page to their sites. See how may use vortel. There is a reason why you wont find many that do.
On another note, does that gay market really need ANOTHER twink site? About the only twink site I will market is boy fun collection because the members just stay forever. Or maybe a new pay per signup twink site when it first hits the market (first 2 months), after that the conversions are so bad its not worth it even to a $40 per signup site.
Despite what some have said in another post, as you grow you want to be able to go after the big fish. You want the big fish to promote you. The more money you make for them the more that they will make for you. You will make more money for them by offering them a solid business/procesing model.
I'm curious why you even ask this question. You don't even promote your current paysite to potential affiliates on this board. If additional affiliates were such a concern of your's, why don't you have a button in your sig? I can think of many worse places to promote than GWW. ;)
i'd say at least 30 and 50% less with verotel.
for one thing, verotel won't let you pay more than 50% max. the best incentive for people who can send big traffic is 5 or 10% extra as a bonus.
the verotel stats are hopeless - people who need info to tweak their traffic, won't even bother to promote verotel.
and before you decide you can easily use free hosted galleries on verotel i suggest you try to set up a gallery using verotel numbers and see if you can get the account number to pass through. i couldn't for some reason - and since verotel doesn't offer multiple url linking, you may need some scripting to make your galleries work.
abostonboy - the only ways i see to spread your members through two processors for affiliates is to either cascade (which means max has to for cascading software and pay affiliates or pay someone to pay them) or offer both processors and either alternate them on your signup page from day to day or else let affiliates choose who they want - but then who would want verotel or epoch stats? for epoch stats to do the most good you need to work with the data dump, which means custom programming.
I mean cascading. That's why i ssaid I didn't know musch about him. What was his intentions in the biz. Is he dropping a few grand on a site and putting it out. Or does he have hopes/plans of becomming big. I guess if he's just dropping a few grand on a site and wants to see how it goes then go with Ccbill. But if he wants to grow, be big, and BE SAFE, then yea he needs to cascade and spend the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
I mean I got different vibes when reading his post. One was complaining about the setup fee then mentioning opening a merchant account then growing to five sites. If I was running five sites in niches that could generate traffic and serious sales, then the investment in cascading backend is more than worth it.
I guess what I am trying to say is you never want the model you decide to launch with be something that limits you in the future.
Think of money you invest in your business now as money invested for future growth and safety. For me I still have nightmares about DMR and IBill and all the problems Epoch had a few years backs.
I mean we really are now relying on two companies in teh whole industry to do all the processing for us. That in itself is a scary thought.
Yes very scary!Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
However, we've started to invest the money made from this industry into another entirely unrelated business which in no way could be affected by a processor shutting down. When the day comes you can still pay your mortgage or rent & food ;)
I know I took a couple years out of the biz and pretty much did the same thing as well.
Relying on one anything --processsor, producer, designer, or even attorney is a bad idea. Just like a chair is more stable with 4 legs than one, having more than one processor in this business and cascading will pay for itself not only in gaining a greater percentage of sales [fewer declines] you will give yourself greater exposure to more affiliates. It is hard to say a hard percentage number, but the common theme among all the answers here seems to be that using CCBill as a processor does pay for itself.
Selling porn is a business, and a real business requires investment. The investment of time, effort and money will pay for itself and be an asset if you can use that asset properly. Personally, I would rather pay 15% on $10000 of sales than 7% on $1500 in sales, but you will have to find that out for yourself--it is called risk and taking risks is part of doing business. There are no guarantees the investments you make in your business will pay off, and other people's histories in similar investments, while a good indicator, are certainly not a guarantee it will work for you. Your results may vary.:toff:
Well man, my site was really not ready before, and to tell the truth it did help my sales to be the only one promoting it. But I am paying so much to have a total redesign of the site created, and would like to start getting ready to open the other 4 sites I have planed. Its just comes down to if I am going to change things I might as well go all the way, I really do think I could make better sales myself with a less rule oriented processor, but what can I do? Webmasters like this Ccbill stuff even if it is not as good from a site owners point of view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
You are right bass, right now I will keep both processors, but from what I see affiliates will all pick this ccbill stuff. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place with all this, if I want affiliates I have to offer what they trust/like, even if I think I could really make more sales with a less rule oriented processor myself. When this first site is done I will also offer super deals for affiliates to get them to give me a try, hell I do not think I will make any money at all from affiliates this whole summer slump because I will be giving them about everything they make. But i have been an affiliate for years and really want to take care of the people that promote my site in anyway I can, even if that means I will make much less money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Chad,
I am not sure why me and you are the few people who actually think in terms of risk management. Is it that I always wanted to be a lawyer and am actually studying for the LSAT. Or is it that I have a math degree and just think in numbers a lot.
By speading your risk (which itself is a good thing) you always make more signups (which is a good thing). Hell, in an ideal world I would have 5 processors cranking out sales.
Max,
On a more serious note, you also need to realize that the signup page also affects conversions. Some companies allow greater flexibility than others. Two part signup pages are a wonderful thing. Some companies allow you to play with the page to a greater degree once you have proved yourself.
I still have a $900 check from Vortel. It bounced twice. You can have it if you want. Actually, it's 886.47. My bad.
PS. Does anyone know how to change you damn address w/ Epoch?
God that was a long post man, but ya I will try to do anything I can to help out affiliates, that is the whole point of all this ccbill stuff, viewers really do not care what processors you have. I am sure a very few do, but I could make up more sales with the flexibility other processors would offer. If I want to open my new sites I need some support from affiliates so I can spend more time just creating new products for them to promote.
As far as you not liking twink sites, well this well be a theme in all the sites I create. The first one will be a twink action site, then I will make like 4 other variations on other twink/frat themes. Its really hard to find any big affiliate program that does not have a twink site to promote and that is what most of my traffic wants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
Less rule orientated processor. When you goto casino do you play Blackjack or Russian roulette.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
And with vertol how are you going to offer deals over 50%?
What if you want to change a tour and let webmasters market both tours?
The list goes on with them......
How old is this check man? I will take it :) I have been paid on time every time for over a year now from them, so if the check is not too old I think I could get my back to cash it.
I am note sure about having 5 processors on my join page, or how that would work with the affiliates, if lets say ccbill affiliate sends me the traffic its not good to try to push another processor on their viewers and cheating them out of a sale. And if I make a separate version for each processor, how many affiliates are really going to join anything but this ccbill stuff maybe what 8%?
I think after my system grows I will have to invest in a more independent/trust worthy way of processing, but until then I have to go with the flow even though I personally have some reservations about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
That's my point, you are competing with companies that offer $40 per signup, NATS billing (which = higer conversions), and really good tours (finally!) and actually now decent content. The big boys have got spanked in the past, but they learned.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
I think from my experience, I found that twink conversion is down, but twink sites retain members longer than some other niches. (depending on the site of course).
Just remember what you said - You are competing with the big programs that almost all have twink content.
And after the justin thing settles, and the cobra thing, and another replucian attornet general get elected there may be only granps porn on the net until some group (maybe medicare files a lawsuit against that). Who knows.
But I am a hypocrite. I am creating ethnictwinks.com as well uncutfreshmen. Although uncutfreshmen.com is very softcore.
I admire you on creating a paysite (which I believe you have) and NOT putting in an affiliate program right away. It's a smart move. If I was you, I would set up with ccbil and put it on the site with the same traffic and see what it does before you release to affiliates.
Can I ask you what site it is?
thx
Well when I said personally I was talking about “me” making more sales. With total freedom of text and themes I can really do allot, Teen Boys sells better than Twink Boys every day ECT
Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
I was somewhat joking. about the five. Since there are only 2 really.
You need NATS for that. Its a program that allows multiple processors with one code. If one fails (say Ccbil it will try to get the sale w/ epoch) or If you see a drop in one for a certain period of day (epoch slow maybe you can switch to the other and vice versa) It allows you to spread out your signups. If one comapny goes bankrupt, then you still got the other.
you have aim?
aim abostonboy2003
http://xycash.com/programframe.php
Something like that is really good.
I am making some twink sites, but I am going in the other direction I am making mostly really hardcore twink sites. I do plan to open some twink site you do not see everyday, and I do have a good rep with my viewers as far as twink stuff goes so its just natural for me to do that.
I know I will be competing with some of the bigger sites, but I can live on what I sell myself, so I will give back more to my affiliates than they do. Like you said before the first few months this site should sell like hot-cakes, and after like 2-3 months I will be opening another site.
I do not even want to think about “justin” I do not give a shit about that stupid shit, I for one am not going to change what I am doing cuzz some 17 year old now feels bad about all the 50 year old cocks he sucked.
Ya it will be up like 1-2 week with the new graphics while I am changing it over to ccbill, so i will see what it does, but man even if it does no more sales “I really do not expect a processor to help much with sales at all” I would think it will do about the same number regardless, this processor thing really has to do with affiliate not sales.
I would post the site, but its under construction now, no real point ya know. It will not look like it does now at all in a week or 2, as soon as I can get it changed over I will post it trust me LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
Ya man I know about NAST and the 20,000$ I really like clickman more, but that is a bridge I will cross later on. As I see it I kind of have to go with this Ccbill stuff anyway so I might as well start off the new system with it. That is what most webmasters expect and really think for the first year or some I will just offer the one processor until I can get set-up with all that stats/other processors BS
Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy