To DRM or Not to DRM

Ok aBostonboy - here's something you can use to up your post count!

Now that some companies have tried using a DRM system for protecting their exclusive videos from content thieves and random posting on various internet newsgroups, etc ... I was hoping to get some feedback on how this is or isn't working for you.

Are you getting a lot of crap back from members by using this?

Do you see less signups because of it?

Are you using a DRM that doesn't require they remain a member to view the video once they have it on their hard drive, or are they required to maintain membership to have access to the files?

I had a client that did DRM on his straight teen video site and after 1 year he stopped because:
1) there are loads of known cracks for DRM (just search google for a few thousand sites about this)
2) DRM only works on WMV so say goodbye to your Mac client signups
3) he experienced a lot more chargebacks thanks to the downloaded videos no longer working after the surfer let his membership run out, surfers wrote him very nasty emails saying it was a dirty thing and trickery on his part, even though there was a big warning on the join page all about DRM being used and what it meant
4) overall his new signups were down about 20% and his rebills did not increase

thats just one experience.

cheers,
Luke

Bec

this is the easiest thing to answer.

And I will take flap on this. For Sure.

Use DRM, but not in your members area.

I DESPISE sites that use DRM. Though i join them off and on.

1. There are lags. Goto Corbin and SC.
2. I am old fashion. To me IF a member pays, I want to deliver a product to him that he is satisfied with.
3. Retention. Two sides. Do members like DRM - NO. Once the novelty of the site wears off, frustration moves in.
4. Conversion - By advertising NO DRM you can get conversuions higher.

Take this as an example

The DVDs are cut up into easily downloaded scenes in three different .wmv formats (128k for modem users, 512k and 1024k for broadband users) and MPEG-4 for iPod. 1024k is as good as DVD! Whether you choose to stream your favorite DVD for instant gratification or download and save the file to your hard disk for viewing later or burn your own XXX DVD collection, its all possible with xyz.com!

To be honest, link to the programs so the surfer can dl your content and burn dvds. They will trust you, thank you, and respect you. And if you are putting up a dvd a week and they are paying $25 bucks for the sute and if its just a small part, it's an even better value.

At the end of the day it will boil down to the quality of the product you offer the customer and the respect you have for them.

And keep one thing in mind, not everyone is always connected to the net for streaming, and at times I may wanna view a movie I downloade to my laptop when i am travellingg and cant log on to verify.

When to use DRM - use drm when u send clips to the p2p networks. LOL. after they view a clip for x amount of minutes you can send them to a signup page to see more. Talk to the guys at ccbill about this.

Bec,

Now it's your turn.

Can you PM the CMS you use in asian town?

Or guide me in a direction....

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

When to use DRM - use drm when u send clips to the p2p networks. LOL. after they view a clip for x amount of minutes you can send them to a signup page to see more. Talk to the guys at ccbill about this.

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Last time i spoke to CCBill about this and National-Net, the functionality to redirect the surfer to a join page after X amount of minutes wasnt available.

Likewise, you can no longer pop a console on P2P distributed media since the Media Player update a year or two ago.

Regards,

Lee

Chili,

I can't agree with you more man.

I was a paid member of some of these str8 boy sites for like months on end.

When Corbin went to a one view a day I told him to fuck off. Never joined again. EVER!

Bec,

I can talk to you about p2p. IF you have exclusive content don't be afraid of p2p. Embrace it in your marketing program. Learn to love it.

My aim is abostonboy2003

the p2p is something that's too much to explain here.

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Originally Posted by Lee

Last time i spoke to CCBill about this and National-Net, the functionality to redirect the surfer to a join page after X amount of minutes wasnt available.

Likewise, you can no longer pop a console on P2P distributed media since the Media Player update a year or two ago.

Regards,

Lee

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Lee,

You are flat out wrong. There are several ways you can do it.

First you encode the video and add the script to the html page where you want them to goin using encoder.

Second, you get a sku for the video and issue a silent license. If you have sent a 10 min vid and set up the silent licencse it will let them play the video once and at the end pop up the script you used when u encoded the video.

Remember you have control over this silent licensce. You can put many vids on there set up the licences right and then basically kill the content after x amount of dl's.

I AM SORYY WHEN I SAID DRM PUTS THE URL IN. That's you, not DRM, but its a no brainer really to do that.

Bottom line - You can have a video on a p2p network that a user download and after one play goes to any page you want. And you have some flexibilty as to how many times he can play. And the user may not even notice the video is DRM protected as you are issuing a silent license.

Trust me.

And on a standard media player install goto options -> security and see what the default settings are and think for a few minutes....

Appreciate the feedback so far. Has anyone else tried using DRM and what are your experiences with it in a paysite scenario?

Bec,

just signup to Corbin Fisher for like 30 days. And keep randomly checking back and watching the movies.

You will see how NOT to execute DRM.

I will never join that site again and would have charged back if I wanted to be a prick.

there are a lot of members who cancel and come back in three months to see all the updates. if the videos they downloaded stop working, they're less likely to be back.

Abostonboy I'd rather you had a bit more of an understanding about the nature of our DRM implementation and how we use it before going out and saying things that are inaccurate and untrue.

It's highly irresponsible of you to make such unfounded statements.

I think you'll find that CorbinFisher implements DRM is the most user-friendly way possible. And the fact of the matter is that we go to great lengths, expend great amounts of energy and resources and work extremely hard at creating the content we do and have every right to protect it from theft and unauthorized distribution.

- For one, our licenses are permanent. A user joins the site and they are able to watch that video forever, so long as it's kept on the same computer. We do not terminate the license once the membership has expired. When someone download that video to their harddrive, it is theirs to keep.

- There is no "one view a day" rule. You can view that video as many times as you want so long as it is on the same computer the license resides on. The only time you would run in to a situation that could in any way be perceived as a "one view a day" rule is if you are attempting to view the video on a computer that is different from the one you originally downloaded it to and acquired the license on or you are attempting the view the video from different computers at the same time.

On any given day and with any given update, you can stream the video, return to download it, return to stream it yet again, watch the downloaded version infinite times, download and stream the various video sizes/options we have (you can stream and/or download the low res and high res videos all day long for all we care, so long as it's from the same computer the license was first acquired on).

You can do this everyday. For as long as you and your computer live.

- We receive considerable amounts of praise and expressed appreciation from our members who appreciate our right and desire to protect our content and how user-friendly our DRM implementation is. Most notably, they are extremely content with our permanent license policy.

- You would have been one of the only people to have ever chargedback with our site, had you done so. I have no problem sharing here that our current chargeback rate is 0.000014%. And that's with our DRM. With, I might ad, our DRM that you seem to think sprung forth from the depths of hell itself.

I hear a lot of talk here about conversion and how DRM might negatively influence conversion. I'm of the belief that is a one-dimensional view of it. Is it possible that DRM could negatively influence conversion? It is. People mention the loss of Mac users, hostility among surfers and so forth.

But there are dimensions to the issue that go far beyond that and show that DRM is entirely capable of improving conversion by preventing the hemorrhaging of content. How badly would a complete and total loss of control over content; it being freely, readily available any and everywhere without requiring a membership; there being not only a wave but a culture of piracy surrounding that producers content influence conversion? I'd say it'd hit it far worse than the loss of 2-3% of surfers who are limited to Macs.

We don't allow Mac users to join our site. They simply can not do it. Our system will not let them. That helps prevent them from going through the trouble of joining only to find out they can not view the videos, and eliminates the possibility of chargebacks from disgruntled Mac users. Was that a decision we took lightly? Most certainly not. We spent an incredible amount of time obsessing over every minute aspect of our membership and concluded that it was better for us as well as our affiliates to sacrifice the 2-3% of members confined to Macs than the 25-30% that'd be lost on account of hopelessly easy access to pirated content.

Before making the jump to the producer/sponsor side of the industry, I myself ran a high-volume-traffic affiliate website. I ran a poll of my surfers asking them where they got their videos from a couple highly popular sites that did not use DRM. Out of the many hundreds that responded to my poll, less than 5% actually got them from joining the site. The rest got the videos from p2p, friends, free hosting sites, and so forth. Everyone was stealing this producer's stuff. Not a single person in this entire industry has any right to tell that producer he's not entitled to protect his content in the face of that kind of blatant thievery.

As for this:

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1. There are lags. Goto Corbin and SC.
2. I am old fashion. To me IF a member pays, I want to deliver a product to him that he is satisfied with.
3. Retention. Two sides. Do members like DRM - NO. Once the novelty of the site wears off, frustration moves in.
4. Conversion - By advertising NO DRM you can get conversuions higher.

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1. One rare occasion there can be a slight lag as information is passed from the licensing server to the user. That is true. But to suggest that it is something so severe as to interfere with the experience of the surfer is a poor conclusion to make. We rarely, if ever, receive complaints regarding any lag. Our users find that our videos load very promptly and that the license acquisition phase of viewing does not interrupt their enjoyment of the content. This is the internet. There are countless times at which a person might experience lag and countless reasons. To try and isolate lag allegedly or potentially associated with DRM as some debilitating handicap misrepresents the nature of it.

2. Delivering content that satisfies the user and protecting that content with DRM are not mutually exclusive.

3. Our members enjoy our content so much that they are able to understand and appreciate why we have DRM in place. In fact, our single greatest source of tips regarding potential violations of our copyright are the members themselves. They enjoy and appreciate the content so much they eagerly pay for it and bring to our attention anyone that doesn't so that we may take appropriate action.

4. Again, a very one-dimensional view. For every one person that joins because they see "no drm!", how many potential members have you lost on account of their easily finding it for free somewhere else?

Quite frankly, DRM is one of many supplemental aspects of conversion and retention. There are countless matters that can have nominal - in relation to the whole - effects on conversion and retention. But at the very core of a sites ability to convert and retain is a single factor: CONTENT. If it is hot, if it turns people on, if it gets people off, you can convert and retain. And if you're creating something that is hot, turns people on and gets people off, you are entitled to protect your content and your ability to convert and retain through all legal means.

Ok Corbin.

i joined for a month. On three serapate occasions your authorization server was down.

explain ho wthat hepls a surfer.

AND I am not the only one. I mentioned that I hate DRM cause I wnet to a site I joined an on 3 occasions I could not watch as the server was down.

I mentioned to another in the biz. Who is respected. And this person said I had the same issue. We both spit out your site at the same time.

explain that.

concerning the lag, it has happened on your server both when i travel and when i am at on home on a desktop.

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

It's highly irresponsible of you to make such unfounded statements.

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No it IS NOT! I paid for a months membership and on 2 - 3 occasions your server was down to authorize the license.

Where did i mention one view a day?

Sorry Corbin

Another thing. Nearly everyone of your DRM protected videos is on gay-torrents.net

If that was indeed your experience, it's unfortunate.

But despite however much you might think, your own personal experience (as you present it here, at least, for sake of the argument you're attempting to make) and that of some unnamed and anonymous ad verecundium do not qualify as representative of our members' experiences.

No offense but I simply don't find your story as being all that believable. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I personally feel you're making statements to be combative and support your argument and are either exagerrating or flat out lying in an attempt to get your point across.

I hesitate to say this because it risks my coming across as sounding immodest, higher-than-thou and egotistical but I'll take that risk... if it were at all possible, conceivable or in any way plausible that the experience you've related here in any way represented that of a considerable number of our members, much less a considerable proportion of our members, we would not have the membership we have today, the reputation we have today, the following we have today, and be as successful as we are. It's as simple as that.

I'm not going to share sales numbers or anything like that, but I know many of the folks that post on this board are members of more surfer-oriented boards. So if we're going to go with anecdotal evidence to support our arguments, here's my foray in to that. These are quotes from members posting on JustUsBoys.com (a site that promotes us despite our apparent inability to convert or retain on account of some mythical draconian DRM policy... hrm...):

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I'm glad to see Corbin Fisher is leading [OTHER SITE]. Corbin still is personally involved with his site on a level that customers like to see. He answered every email I have ever sent him. From just curious questions to technical issues.

Corbin has also personally emailed and thanked me for every suggestion or like/dislike I have left in his comment section AND most of all, once you get a Corbin Fisher video download and the license to play it is issued to Media Player, the video is good FOREVER (or until you trash your license backup) totally unlike [OTHER SITE] where the videos are only good as long as your membership is current. What a money grab and rip off that is.

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I voted for corbin fisher, because I have been on that site for a while and its great.

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CF [CORBINFISHER] is the best!!!

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Note: the above quotes were made by surfers in a thread in which 112 JUB surfers voted on which paysite among 22 choices they felt was the best. 50 of them ( 45% ) voted for CorbinFisher.com . I mention that only in response to what you're attempting to say - that our members' experiences must be miserable and our DRM implementation must be debilitating to their ability to enjoy their membership. I don't mention that in any way to gloat or suggest that we are better than the other sites listed. Many of the other choices in that poll are sites I am a huge fan of and that I am a member of myself. I could think of plenty of sites that were on that list, that are deserving of every ounce of praise I could muster.

Nonetheless, some more quotes in keeping with our anectodal theme...

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Corbin Fisher is usually pretty quick to get wind of people trading pirated materials, especially when they are posted on a gay porn venue like this, and is very effective when it comes to shutting them down. Moreover, I think JUB does not like to abet guys trading pirated materials protected by copywrite: they might be held liable.

My advice to you is just pony up the $$ and join. You can do the weeks membership for $20, and download a bunch to your hard drive. You can look at them after your subscription has expired. Trust me, it's worth it

I subscribe a couple of time a year.

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Corbin Fisher allows you to continue to view movies that you've downloaded on to your hard-drive after you supbscription as expired.

I can't imagine that his profits are that huge, given production costs, etc, so I can appreciate why his videos are protected.

Do what I do: get a trial week subscription every six months and refresh your cache of material. He's always got something inspiring

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This entire thread if full of people quite understanding of our DRM and our desire to protect our content, in fact.

Hell, just do a search on JUB for "corbin" and among various comments praising particular models or dissing particular models or the great many talking about which ones may and may not actually be straight and other things relating to content itself (which would suggest that despite our allegedly oppressive DRM usage, people are joining the site and watching the videos. Repeatedly, even!) most every reference to our DRM is an expression of gratitude that the license is permanent. In fact, when CorbinFisher.com and DRM get mentioned together, it's almost always in a positive note about how we let them keep the license forever.

There are a couple posts I spotted where people mentioned having technical issues and being unable to view the videos (Any paysite owner here who has never once had a member that was unable to view one of their videos or never once had a member who had technical difficulties, please let me know so that I may idolize you forever), but thankfully CorbinFisher.com has a full-time tech support staff on hand. In fact, not only do we have a full-time tech support staff on hand all day, every day (including weekends!) but we also have someone who checks on all tech support e-mails overnight! And it's also often Corbin himself that responds to technical issue emails ... a great retention tool, btw. Almost as good as DRM.

The overriding experience of our members is:
- They are extremely pleased with the content
- They understand why we have DRM and are grateful we've implemented it generously
- They appreciate how they can send CorbinFisher.com either a feedback or tech support e-mail anytime of day and receive a prompt and helpful response on the rare occasion a tech support issue comes up

I'm still looking for posts on JUB about DRM lag on our site but can't find any. I'll head over to ATKOL next. Anyone else feel free to suggest some surfer-oriented boards for me and I'll search there too. I'll also go through our support tickets to check. Haven't found any there yet either.

But in the meantime I'm inclined to believe we don't have some license acquisition lag epidemic. Could it be your experience was unique? Made up? Goodness!

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

When Corbin went to a one view a day I told him to fuck off. Never joined again. EVER!

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You mentioned it right before you told us to fuck off.

I'm not following your argument here...

You say you joined for a month. And had 3 (first 3... then it became 2-3) instances of lag.

Was this the same time you joined and then said fuck off cuz of some "one view a day"?

Or was it another time? Another time among the... one times?

And when you said you'd fuck off and never join again... was it because of the lag or because of the one view a day rule? Exactly how many different "one times" were there, and how many different reasons were the one reason you would never join again... for the first and only time... ever...?

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

I was a paid member of some of these str8 boy sites for like months on end.

When Corbin went to a one view a day I told him to fuck off. Never joined again. EVER!

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months on end... never joined again "EVER!" because of a "one view a day" that you said we went to but that you never said we went to... "never joined again. EVER!" kind of implies multiple joins.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

i joined for a month. On three serapate occasions your authorization server was down.

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But now we're back to only one single join. Ever? Apparently. So it wasn't months on end so much as one individual month? And a bad one at that, apparently, because not only was that the month the authentication server was down on 3 seperate occasions but also the month that we did some kind of a one view a day that was the reason you cancelled and never joined again EVER... for the second or perhaps first time.

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

I'm not following your argument here...

You say you joined for a month. And had 3 (first 3... then it became 2-3) instances of lag.

Was this the same time you joined and then said fuck off cuz of some "one view a day"?

Or was it another time? Another time among the... one times?

And when you said you'd fuck off and never join again... was it because of the lag or because of the one view a day rule? Exactly how many different "one times" were there, and how many different reasons were the one reason you would never join again... for the first and only time... ever...?

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it wasnt lag, the authorization server did not authorize. It was down.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

it wasnt lag, the authorization server did not authorize. It was down.

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So let's run with that then. And say that the experience you're relating here of the authorization server being down on apparently 3 different occasions during whatever month or months you were a member (joining a site as a surfer and then turning around and attempting to trash talk it as a webmaster here on this board is very professional, btw) really is a problem that is as bad as you say it is, something that must be experienced by a considerable portion of our members, something that must be inherent to DRM and the purely, sinfully evil way we've implemented it and enough to dissuade any company from implementing DRM at all, much less as we have done so... how come I couldn't find anyone among the many posts on JUB specifically discussing our DRM mention your experience?

How is it that CorbinFisher is still in business?! At all?! How is it that anyone here who might promote us manages to get a single sale that's not charged back? And how also do we have so low a chargeback ratio?!

Corbin,

I was going to market your site. I do well with str8 sites.

I joined when I was on the road last June during gay pride in Boston. So a year ago and a week.

I watched a video and on several occasions had to pause rewind and play again because it lagged.

Sorrta sucks when you are ready to cum. But what could i do. Lucas is cute. I was in a hotel room.

Got home logged in and downloaded a video to see if it was better than streaming. Still the same issue.

A couple nights later, I couldn't even watch a video via streaming or dl. I wasnt getting an authorization key. Looked thru the Windows media messages. And realized the server was down to authorize.

This happened two or three times over the next couple weeks.

And to be perfectly honest i didnt even go every nite. I may join a site to see if i want to market and if it's good enough to get me off, I can then honestly say it got me off.

Unfortunately I had issues with lag on more than one occassion and on at leas two times over the course of several weeks. I was not getting an authorization via the DRM system. It was down or busy or whatever it was doing.

I believe at that time you had in the members area a notice saying that now you can only view once in a 24 hr period. I could be wrong, but i am almost sure of this.

Recently I talked to another in the industry about how DRM technology is frustrating and I mentioned I joined a site and could not view the video beacsue the authorization did not go through. This same person had the same issue recently. And I said it sucks because it is what i consider the best site on the net. The models run circles around Sean Cody. The person said OMG it's Corbin right? i said yes. Same issue this person had note ven a short while ago. i had the issue one year and a week ago (I know beacuse i was in a hotel during Boston pride in a different city travelling).

Actually not to confuse you, the night I joined i could watch with what appeared to be the video stopping. It was several days later that I had the authorization isuue.

And I still believe that at that time you had a notice that you had changed the policy to a one view per day.

Maybe you have since changed.

The authorization serever failing to respond happend at least twice maybe three times. Considering i may hev been to the site a total of 7 or 8 times, it seems high.

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

(joining a site as a surfer and then turning around and attempting to trash talk it as a webmaster here on this board is very professional, btw)

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think about that. As a webmaster don't you want to know what the surfer's experience may be?

And IF you had a different drm policy a year ago you will not find it on just us boys. ANY mention of your site when I do a serach ends around Nov 2005.

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

months on end... never joined again "EVER!" because of a "one view a day" that you said we went to but that you never said we went to... "never joined again. EVER!" kind of implies multiple joins.



But now we're back to only one single join. Ever? Apparently. So it wasn't months on end so much as one individual month? And a bad one at that, apparently, because not only was that the month the authentication server was down on 3 seperate occasions but also the month that we did some kind of a one view a day that was the reason you cancelled and never joined again EVER... for the second or perhaps first time.

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I will glady give you the information about my membership. When i mentioned the str8 boy sites. it was Sean cody. Sorry. Even though Lucas is the best.

And you still havent addressed the issue of why have DRM when your new videos are on gay-torrents.net. And I go there every day as its a battle to see if i have dieos there from my asian site. they seem to love asian boys on teh torrents.

abostonboy,
I wish you'd presented your case in this manner from the get go. You had a technical issue, those happen. But there are particular reasons for it that are not representative of today's CorbinFisher.com member experience. The manner in which you first presented your experience in this thread was, I felt, entirely uncalled for. And that's why it solicited a rather aggressive response from me.

This is from the June 14, 2005 news entry on our site (you can read it yourself by going to CorbinFisher, hitting "AGREE" and then clicking on the NEWS button):

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June 14, 2005

Our latest straight stud is online - don't miss Jacob!

Site Upgrade: We have been growing by leaps and bounds (a big thanks to our loyal subscribers!) and have been working hard to improve the site and its performance:

* We are now on a dedicated GigE switch which will give us 10 times the bandwith capacity that we had before!!
* We have increased our already sizable server "fleet" by 25%
* We improved model search tools in the members area so that they will be a lot more useful!
* Going forward, we are increasing the size of the still photo galleries to 600x600!

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That happened one year ago. Right at the time you joined. Our site was growing at such a fast pace we had to make massive server and hosting upgrades to accomodate the growth. During the time you joined, all of that was taking place. A complete overhaul and upgrade of our servers.

Could that have something to do with the problems you encountered?

We have, as I'm sure you know, a very large site with a considerably large membership base. Many, many members. We have a massive amount of hosting resources allocated to our site (go to our hosting facility and check out our boxes and you'd think you got sucked in to a Tron sequel) to cover all of this.

Occasionally, people experience technical issues. Occasionally, we perform massive upgrades and additions to our servers to accomodate growth. Precisely because of those factors, we have (at all times of the day and at all times of the evening, as well as on weekends) people attending to members technical support questions. People like me awake at 4:30am corresponding with members (and you during the in-between times).

If, a year and a week ago, you had e-mailed our technical support staff to explain your difficulties, you would have been made aware of the news item I posted above. You would also have likely had your membership extended, free of charge. You might even have been given a refund of the existing membership.

THAT is the member experience. On the rare occasional a technical issue comes up, we deal with it. But otherwise, they are extremely pleased with the site and constantly and in great numbers getting off to it, eagerly and happily, to the great pleasure of us and of our affiliates.

I appreciate your having had the desire to join the site in the first place and the eagerness and optimism with which you went in to it and appreciate your compliments on the models as well as your fondness for the straight guy niche that we're also, obviously, quite fond of here.

I can not appreciate, however, the way in which CorbinFisher was first referenced by you in this thread. I'm sure you can understand why. With your first few posts about us, you could have had a seriously debilitating effect on the impression other professionals we respect and work with have of us. People could have left this thread with a poor, and I feel completely false, impression of our site, it's support, and it's ability to convert and retain.

All the while, it turns out you'd joined in the midst of a complete server overhal and upgrade that was being explained to the membership and was being dealt with and attended to by our support staff.

Don't get me wrong... it still sucks joining a site right at the exact time they're doing all that. But you made it sound like that simply must have been characteristic of our entire site, as a whole, all the time. And we do nothing about it. And that's simply not the case.

I think you need to be very aware of how things can come across on a board and how we should be responsible with what we say.

Corbin,

as your member I've also experience server downtime on several occasions. Twice it did not authorize me. But when server is really busy videos stuck quite a few times.

Don't know if it has to do with DRM technology or just the server.


On a good note, it's nice that you let people download your material unlike SC.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

think about that. As a webmaster don't you want to know what the surfer's experience may be?

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Yes. Which is why we have a group of our members betatest any change or update we make to the site. And why we personally respond to every single email (that is not an exagerration. Every single one) that we receive. And why we constantly and actively solicit feedback from our members. And why we have someone reading and responding to emails around the clock, every day of the week.

There is a big difference between all of that, though, and a webmaster joining a site for a mix of personal and professional reasons to then move on and make inaccurate statements, presented as fact, on a webmaster discussion board.

I am a member and fan of several sites represented by posters here. I love their work and their sites and enjoy the stuff they produce very much. But I don't come in here and tell everyone on this board about it and how they should avoid that site and how it can't possibly convert or retain everytime it takes too long for one of their videos to buffer or I have login difficulties. That's crossing the line in to something entirely inappropriate and unprofessional.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

And IF you had a different drm policy a year ago you will not find it on just us boys. ANY mention of your site when I do a serach ends around Nov 2005.

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In your first several posts on here, when you went out of your way to mention how poorly implemented our DRM policies were, did you qualify that with mention of the fact that it was over a year ago that you were a member?

Certainly not. You laid in to CorbinFisher pretty heavy, even telling Bec she should join up for a lesson in how NOT to do things. All the while speaking from year-old experiences.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

And you still havent addressed the issue of why have DRM when your new videos are on gay-torrents.net.

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Everyone has email. Everyone has the internet. Everyone has friends. ("Everyone" so far as our consumer base is concerned, has all those at least).

Not everyone uses torrents. Not everyone wants to deal with fishing around the p2ps. Not everyone wants to deal with uncertain files (fake filenames, viruses, bad burns, screwed up vids, poor quality copies). Not everyone knows how and where to get pirated material.

DRM is not an end all be all solution. I don't think anyone believes it is.

I'm a big fan of DRM, and yet am fully aware it's imperfect. I don't think anyone using DRM on their site expects it to completely eliminate any and all forms of piracy. If they do, they are either poorly informed or naive.

But it is about limiting circulation, limiting unauthorized distribution, and minimizing it.

There are those that really want the pirated stuff and will get it no matter what. Then there are those that will take it when it's given to them. The latter group is by far the largest group, and DRM is about keeping it from them.

Corbin,

I am sorry but your site is the main one I had issues with as did many others.

The whole topic of this thread was Bec asking what is the customer experience like. i posted from a cutomer's point of view. At least two other webmasters have had same issues. BOTH with lag and authorization. MAYBE the lag is not drm related, but I still got lag after downlaoding the video. So it's highly unlikely server load related, but something to do with DRM.

And your videos are still all over the bit torrent networks as are seancody's. Maybe you do it for marketing and brand awareness.

And I gave MY experience with Sean Cody. I was a member for 12 months. Went through the time when half his videos were not DRM and half were. Then a week or two later all were. My enjoyment droped as a customer when that process took place.

I canceled his site and go back now every few months for a one month period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

In your first several posts on here, when you went out of your way to mention how poorly implemented our DRM policies were, did you qualify that with mention of the fact that it was over a year ago that you were a member?

Certainly not. You laid in to CorbinFisher pretty heavy, even telling Bec she should join up for a lesson in how NOT to do things. All the while speaking from year-old experiences.

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you still have issues. Read the post that came in the middle of ours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toni_Enzo

Corbin,

as your member I've also experience server downtime on several occasions. Twice it did not authorize me. But when server is really busy videos stuck quite a few times.

Don't know if it has to do with DRM technology or just the server.


On a good note, it's nice that you let people download your material unlike SC.

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And this is in 2006? A year later......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toni_Enzo

Corbin,

as your member I've also experience server downtime on several occasions. Twice it did not authorize me. But when server is really busy videos stuck quite a few times.

Don't know if it has to do with DRM technology or just the server.


On a good note, it's nice that you let people download your material unlike SC.

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The site is updated every Tuesday and every Friday. Both those days see a tremendous load placed on the servers. Many, many, many thousands of people all going to the site at the same time to download DVD-quality videos.

This is one of the reasons we're so generous with our DRM policy - we want the people to be able to download and keep the videos so that they don't have to keep coming online to stream or re-download them.

On any given update day, there is usually a 1-2 hr period of severe usage as the update just goes up, people notice, and the downloading and streaming starts. Otherwise, you should not have a problem.

If you do experience issues outside of that time frame, other things could be at fault. That's when you want to use the Campus Help link that exists to assist members with issues like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

The site is updated every Tuesday and every Friday. Both those days see a tremendous load placed on the servers. Many, many, many thousands of people all going to the site at the same time to download DVD-quality videos.

This is one of the reasons we're so generous with our DRM policy - we want the people to be able to download and keep the videos so that they don't have to keep coming online to stream or re-download them.

On any given update day, there is usually a 1-2 hr period of severe usage as the update just goes up, people notice, and the downloading and streaming starts. Otherwise, you should not have a problem.

If you do experience issues outside of that time frame, other things could be at fault. That's when you want to use the Campus Help link that exists to assist members with issues like that.

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Can we agree that for a small site that doesnt have a support staff, DRM may not be the way to go? At least until they build the brand and loyalty and trust of the members.

Can we agree that DRM can affect the quality of a surfers experience on a site?

Big or small?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Corbin,

I am sorry but your site is the main one I had issues with as did many others.

The whole topic of this thread was Bec asking what is the customer experience like. i posted from a cutomer's point of view. At least two other webmasters have had same issues. BOTH with lag and authorization. MAYBE the lag is not drm related, but I still got lag after downlaoding the video. So it's highly unlikely server load related, but something to do with DRM.

And your videos are still all over the bit torrent networks as are seancody's. Maybe you do it for marketing and brand awareness.

And I gave MY experience with Sean Cody. I was a member for 12 months. Went through the time when half his videos were not DRM and half were. Then a week or two later all were. My enjoyment droped as a customer when that process took place.

I canceled his site and go back now every few months for a one month period.

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Actually, re-read Bec's post. Her thread was about asking webmasters who use DRM what their experience with it is.

Not asking webmasters how shitty they think someone else's site is on account of their DRM and letting everyone that doesn't like DRM rail on those that use it.

And if your videos are lagging once they are already on your computer and in the midst of being played, I have a very hard time believing it has anything to do with DRM and is not instead a local issue.

As far as Toni's or your other friend's experience goes, there are countless other variables I don't know. Where are they located? Where are they connecting from? What are they running? The kinds of variables all webmasters deal with when it comes to member support issues all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Can we agree that for a small site that doesnt have a support staff, DRM may not be the way to go? At least until they build the brand and loyalty and trust of the members.

Can we agree that DRM can affect the quality of a surfers experience on a site?

Big or small?

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We can't even agree on that. I think a site that is small and up and coming is in the perfect position to do all they can to start protecting their content as early as possible and that few things would encourage their growth more than maximizing control over the distribution of their own content.

I am also not convinced that DRM brings with it as many problems as you feel it does.

It is not beyond the realm of possibilities that some webmasters may experience a less than satisfying time with DRM and find it doesn't fit their needs or that they don't want to use it.

But that is not our experience, and we are entirely pleased to have implemented it when and how we did. With what we invest in our content and every ounce of content on our site being entirely and completely created by us, we have a tremendous interest in doing all we can to protect it and doing all we can to encourage individuals to come to our site to enjoy it. And we feel that using DRM has helped do just that.

Corbin,

Actually i know why Bec posted this.

And i want to say to you YOU HAVE A FUCKING AWESOME SITE. I AM SURE YOU MAKE SERIOUS CASH.

I will market you.

I know your costs per model shoot to a point. My roommate in boston was a model for sean cody. I know he spends upwards of a few grand on a shoot. Flight for two models, hotel, and a varying fee depending on teh mode and if top or bottom. I am sure yo do as well and see the need to "protect" your content.

To large comapnies that have built a loyal base and have spent considerable money on branding and advertsising it maybe worth it.

But in my opinion that are few companies that have built a brand and have the technical infustructure both on the customer service side and the technical side to make the surfers experience as easy as possible.

You are one of the few that can pull it off.

Though even you must admit that DRM does in at least some way affect the customer experience. Busy authoriaztion server.

Not many sites have the content or the cutomer loyalty to substain authoriization errors.

And from my experience as I consumer I would still not join the site. As a webmaster i would market it.

i never meant this to be a thread to attack your company at all. Just my experiences with dRM.

I know the answers that Bec wants. And it has nothing to do with rather she is going to market your site. Or recommend your site to other webmasters. Anyone in their right mind would market your site as well as sean codys if they have that traffic.