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This blows me away. Sorry Lee. You are saying you would rather gross 15,000 a month than 49,100? And lets not firget how much additional revenue 4,500 members can generate in the members area. And the reason is it took longer to break even?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Think of years two and three and four and five......
On $30 site gross years 2-5 = $540,000.00
On 9.82 site gross years 2-5 = $2,359,200.00
My motto
THINK BIG SHOOT HARD!
Or, grow to quick and fail miserably ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
Regards,
Lee
Lee,
I am talking about the pps model. Where retention is NOT as big as deal in revshare.
As far as break even time. Different people have a different tolerance for risk.
IF I see higher rewards in the long term, i am willing to allow a longer break even point.
Those who tend to break even soon, tend to max their profits out soon as well.
LOL, You talk about Microsoft. They have still NOT broke even on the Xbox. And even know after releasing gen 2, they say the division will lose money for at least another 12 months. This is what you call forward thinking. Lose money in short term to make in long term. IF Microsoft didnt think this way they wouldnt be losing $126 on every xbox sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Nothing personal but I have numbers to back up what i am saying.
Therein lays the problem, very few of GWWs community members run sites using the PPS business model so, unless they know this is what you are talking about, you will end up losing them money.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
The methods you have mentioned above are ones that work well for sites operating on the PPS model but not for revshare. That is my point.
As 99% of the community members we have on GWW operate sites based on the revshare business model, it makes sense to speak to them, especially newbies, in terms of growing their sites / affiliate programs based on the revshare model and not the PPS one ;)
Regards,
Lee
I do also, for both business models.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
However, would you suggest to a newbie that they launch a site based on the PPS business model without knowing anything about running a site first and foremost? I certainly wouldnt.
Regards,
Lee
I stand correct. You are right. These are two different models. And a 9.82 rev share site would fail. MOST LIKELY or NOT generate the profits of a $30 site.
Would I recommend newbies jump in the pps model. NO. Unless they have deep pockets and are willing to invest in someone with experience running them.
But I believe that in the long run the PPS can be much more profitable.
I give as an example pridebucks. A company that started from nothing three years ago and has grown to include sites with unique content, a content site, buiness board, and a pay persignup model. They have always taken the ethical high road.
My main concern with the industry as a whole is we rely on two processors. i have been fucked by DMR and Ibill. Both were darlings at one time. I am not saying Ibill or Epoch is in trouble.
BUT IF the time came whne we had to rely on one, how many webmasters would promote revshare? I like my cash upfront, even if it may be less than what I get in the long run when I choose to promote sites. It's one area of this business that from past experience I have a low tolerance for risk.
True enough but, even PrideBucks started out paying on the revshare business model and went in to the PPS model once they knew they had something that worked. They didnt jump right in with the PPS business model.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
That should be a concern for everyone however, there are alternate options to third party billing and, a lot of companies do use their own merchant services however, for a new affiliate program, the trust that the 3rd party billers such as CCBill have, is a great selling point to any potential affiliates. Not to mention, the time saved for the program owner not having to do any check cutting which only adds to any potential problems a program may have.Quote:
My main concern with the industry as a whole is we rely on two processors. i have been fucked by DMR and Ibill. Both were darlings at one time. I am not saying Ibill or Epoch is in trouble.
If it came down to only promoting 1 business model, based on past experience with GWW Community members, the vast majority of them would go with the revshare business model, the main reason being, from what i gather, is that they dont like the methods used on the PPS business model by those program owners to generate incomes.Quote:
BUT IF the time came whne we had to rely on one, how many webmasters would promote revshare? I like my cash upfront, even if it may be less than what I get in the long run when I choose to promote sites. It's one area of this business that from past experience I have a low tolerance for risk.
Personally, i like a mix of both business models when it comes to choosing the programs i promote, PPS on lower quality traffic sources where, as you state, you get the quick hit of funds and dont have to worry about whether your member is going to retain and revshare model for the better quality traffic sources.
Regards,
Lee
My LAST post on this topic.
Creating a porn site is in many ways like investing in the stock market. When you goto a broker they are required to get a profile of you. Your risk tolerance. Those with a low risk tolerance are recommended a low risk investment strategy. The returns are low, but the losses are minimal. Those with a high risk tolerance, will see big swings.
My recommendation to ANY newbie in the paysite game is a low risk tolerance at first. I took that approach with my asian site.
BUT, I truly believe that putting a new site out at $30 can be very high risk. IF the tour doesnt convert and you have 2,000 in feeds in there a month, you are losing money until you tweak your site. For any new webmaster I would recommend start small, low priced, maybe even just your own traffic, test, test, test, then as you see what retention you get, and as you can afford more exclusive content, up the price. Then really promote your program with hard numbers and a sense of confidence.
Lee,
Pridebusks did start with a pay per signup. i know, I was the first person to signup and joe sent me an email saying cjb was not ready. don't promote.
I agree on you as a mix. It really depends on how well you know your traffic. And how well you know how to filter it.
My mix tends to be more pps though than most. But many webmasters never got burned 14,000 a month in recurring income when DMR went bust. Or how many webmasters played the tier one game with AC and then finally lost it all? I mean webmasters were signing up to their own AC sites just to keep their recurring income. That is sad.
And after coming back in this biz after a couple years out, I noticed that about 20 paysites I was promoting thru CCbill are gone and I was a changing my links. Not so w/ pps.
It really boils down to how good you think your traffic will convert on a certain site.
Actually, i beleive they launched with a 60% revshare or $25 per sale.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
The $25 per sale was on a $29.95 (i think it was) membership therefore, it wasnt a true PPS business model ;)
Regards,
Lee
True.
Actually at that time it was 24.95.
But, as a new site I am sure that many members stayed for a month. So they were losing money w/ fees content etc. And with the 60% revshare you really had to keep a member to the third cycle to make as much as you would on the $25 pps. Which as a new site launched with like 5 or 6 models and scences was a challenge.
As the professor of PrideBucks 101, I'll skip roll call and get right to today's lecture.
1. PrideBucks started with one site - CircleJerkBoys.com which to this day is our top converting site. An interesting thing to note is that we started with 9 episodes.
2. CircleJerkBoys started with a 24.95 price point.
3. For the first few months we advertised 60% revshare. Then we added PPS at $25 program wide after 3 months. Though from pretty much day one if someone asked for PPS we gave it to them individually.
4. Since we give access to all of our sites when signing up to any of the sites... we raised the price to 29.95 on our sites when adding boysgonebad (our 3rd site). Concurrently we raised our PPS payout to $30. This continues to be the program structure to this day.
With that said this is what I would suggest for anyone starting out.
1. Do not start off with just 9 original episodes. It wouldn't cut it anymore. Our last two sites, Menover30.com and ExtraBigDicks.com we started off around 15 episodes and they did quite well right out of the gate.
2. If you don't have a huge bankroll behind you, stick with Revshare for the first few months and build up some cash flow.
3. If you do decide to offer PPS right away or in the future, don't let anyone tell you that offering 100%+ of the monthly join option isn't a true PPS. Even then start off by offering it only to a select few so you can see how it goes.
4. Lease affiliate software like NATS or MPA. The ability to have cascading billing and increase your sales by 20% minimum is going to cover the costs of the software and increase your cash flow to reinvest back into your business.
Let me get this right man, you are saying I only need about 15 or so original episodes “video and image” to open a new site, as long as the membership I am guessing includes 1-3 other membership sites you offer with different content.
What about sites with non exclusive content, what kind of a mix or original stuff would you suggest as a minimum with that model? I know allot of people that run sites with almost no 100% original stuff and do very good. Do you really think this 100% exclusive stuff is the end all be all, after all most of the people that have seen everything in everyone else’s sites are not going to stick around you site for every long anyway.
Its like dating I guess, if you know a guy you are thing about dating has been out with hundreds of other people and his past relationships only lasted 1-2 months does not make you think he’s a flake and you will VERY soon be just another X regardless of what you do for him.
well the bonus sites couldn't hurt. but no thats not what i was saying. you could open a paysite now... with 15 original episodes (each episode having 100 pics and 15 min of vide min) and you would do fine as long as you're not charging too much - probably 19.95 or 24.95 tops. the key is updating the site at least once per week with a new original episode.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower