Huge Hypocrite !

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

Any studio can make use of AIM (the testing center for the industry). THey have blood draw deals hooked up all across the country. It's a bit pricey, but I believe they do keep track of the test results for people that work in the industry.

We test every model for HIV, syphillis, and hepatitis-C when they arrive, even though we shoot condom content. We do this in part because of the latency issues and in part because we don't want to risk a model giving us a faked test result. Thank goodness, we've not yet had a model test positive. We also take other precautions to lower risk - models don't cum in other models mouths, we use condoms for all scenes, and we follow other protocols to reduce the risk of transmission (no teeth brushing within 90 minutes of a shoot, that sort of thing.)

We also have the models sign a statement, which we actually discuss rather than just have them read and sign, which states that even though they are all tested, the test results aren't foolproof and there's risk in every situation.

I've had many models tell me that they've never had anyone -- including school classes -- educate them as completely as we did on the issue of STD transmission, and several have told us months or years later that our conversations with them had a long-lasting impact on their decisions about safe sex practices.

We, as an industry, CAN make an impact on the lives of our models and the people who view our content if we choose to. It's not convenient, and it may cut into our profits, but it all boils down to what's most important at the end of the day.

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Very honorable of you. I knew about AIM, but I thought it was for the str8 industry. I was not aware that gay companies could also take part in it. The way I handle it, is that we simply don't film sex scenes. At all. Luckily, I surrvive in a fetish that does not require it. I know that there would be no way that I could live with myself if I ever played a part in someone getting infected...and we made a decision a long time ago to draw a line. Granted, we are probably not making as much money as we could...but we sleep well at night. It sounds like you can too. I applaud you for your frank discussions with your models. I have been around long enough to know that most companies are not like that...and simply say "Heres an extra $100 if you...."

I have always felt that some of the models are not into this business because they want to, but rather because they have to (for various reasons.) Although we try to weed those ones out...it is clear that the draw of money works wonders. (Look at all the str8boys in the industry.) I am always glad to meet people that look out for the models, because after all, without them, we are all nothing.

Bareback :whip:

good points and lots of truth

but unfortunately as long as idiots like Jeff Palmer are out there the problem(s) will get worse and not better - for gay porn and for gay men

I cant say that i am a fan of Kevin Clarke, but one important thing that we all must remember is that we are all responsible for our own actions. Whether we are a studio filming scenes, or a model working for a studio. Ultimately, life is 20% what happens to you and 80% how you respond to it, and we all have to live with the consequences of our own actions.

When we first started discussing the company we are now operating, we decided that bareback was not something we were going to film. I beleive that we as an industry have a HUGE responsibility to portray safe sex. Many young gays (and older ones who are just now comming out of the closet) have never had a gay sexual experience. Many of them look to porn to educate themselves on the whole experience. I share the same Philosophy as Chi Chi does: If someone sees a hot video with hot guys fucking and they put a condom on before penetration, the viewer will do the same in their personal life. Although the market is demanding more and more bareback scenes, whether it costs us profit or not, we will not travel down that road. We take great pride in what we are doing, but also remember that we have a great responsiblity.

Paul Collingwood
Creative Director
Vain Boys Productions

You know I'm going to keep saying this until you people get it. Not all barebacking is about promoting HIV infection. There is a huge population of HIV-positive men out there who want to see themselves reflected in gay porn. They choose not to use condoms because they don't want to and they don't see the point. Yes, there are reported risks when sero-concordant men have unprotected sex, but may prefer to accept the risks for a better quality of life. There are also a lot of sero-concordant HIV-negative couples who have also decided not to use condoms. That's their choice.

If you are so against bareback sex, then speak with your sites. Do not promote bareback sex. Do not accept traffic from any webmaster who promotes bareback sex anywhere. Do not accept traffic from any link list or TGP that also lists bareback sex sites and galleries. And do not film any model who has ever had unprotected sex either on or off camera. In fact, why don't you put on your join pages that you'd prefer that barebackers just not even join your site.

If you feel that barebacking is getting out of hand, then stop complaining and do something about it. The only way you'll change it is to make it less profitable for people to promote it. But the fact is that the public wants them and continues to join barebacking sites.

And when are you people going to get off your pulpits and start putting pressure on the straight side of the business to hold themselves up to the same standards. The fact is that straight people fucking without condoms is just fucking while gay people fucking without condoms is called "barebacking." It's a double standard.

Kevin Clark is obviously upset because he lost someone he cared about. I always feel bad for people who make big dramatic exits like this because they're so often back in a few months trying to smooth over their harsh words as they mount a comeback.

Michael

Every time the issue of barebacking comes up, the message board really lights up! It's definitely a controversial topic and it's great to see the discussions evolve. Having said that, I have known Kevin Clarke for many years and I seriously doubt that the barebacking issue is the real reason he's retiring (again). But it lets him exit the industry with a flourish.

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

That's it right there. The TIMING of his statements. "Goodbye and by the way, fuck you and I think you're all horrid, and I've always thought so, but I haven't found the words till now ... as I'm leaving ..."

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Thats pretty much what i got out of the article when i read it last week.

'Thanks for letting me make money the last X years, now im retiring, fuck you all'

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

And when are you people going to get off your pulpits and start putting pressure on the straight side of the business to hold themselves up to the same standards.

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I think part of the problem here is that HIV/AIDs is STILL considered to be a 'gay' disease.

A few years ago there was a smidgen of light for the str8 side of the business with that big 'ol HIV/AIDs scare with Darren James, for about 30 days everyone on the str8 side of things were talking about needing more protection, more testing, better testing facilities, etc etc.

The straight side of the business did nothing about it, so fuck em. I know this isnt the right attitude to have but, having been privvy to some pretty good conversations with straight producers claiming to want to change things only to find out a few days later their models are back fucking without condoms, its the attitude i have.

'We' on the other hand, have had the HIV/AIDs message hammered in to our heads at a very early age, many of us in todays 'gay' generation in clubs, tv ads, magazines, and even movies, we know the risks, we've lost friends and family to the disease, we understand the reality, we're educated about the disease, the straight side of the business isnt, hell, most of them still dont realize that HIV/AIDs doesnt care what someones sexuality or drug habits are.

The unfortunate thing though in all of this, is that the models are the ones at risk and a lot of these producers on the straight side of things really couldnt give a shit about them, sure they 'talk' on the boards about how much the cherish and look after the models, but the bottom line is, behind closed doors, the women are just looked at as peices of meat, nothing more, nothing less, the models are the ones we need to be educating, not the producers, because the producers dont give a fuck as long as the money keeps coming in.

Who knows, maybe after a few more Darren James type incidents have happened things will change, its doubtfull though :(

Regards,

Lee

I have to say, I don't see condoms being used less in straight porn compared to gay. Maybe my sample isn't large enough, but I see plenty of condoms in straight porn. Not as much as it should be, and yes, bareback isn't a category in straight porn because it's probably as common as condoms, but again, I don't see any huge difference between gay and straight porn in that respect. Could be just my limited experience? or maybe you guys haven't watched a lot of straight porn recently? Thinking of the sites I promote, I saw lots of condoms on them recently, more so than without and not less than with gay sites that I promote.

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

You know I'm going to keep saying this until you people get it. Not all barebacking is about promoting HIV infection.
There is a huge population of HIV-positive men out there who want to see themselves reflected in gay porn. They choose not to use condoms because they don't want to and they don't see the point.

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Dzinerbear:

Have you considered this? One idea competing with you here is that a great many people insist on seeing an HIV positive person as a suffering victim. (Unfortunately, so do lots of HIV positive individuals as well.) HIV positive people are supposed to be sick, dying... atoning for their past sins, as it were. Is it possible that some folks find it emotionally safer to see guys as portrayed like the 1980s images of Angels in America or And The Band Played On?

How disturbing it mught be to see HIV positive guys looking like everyone else, the only exception being their rich, freewheeling sexual lifestyle?

You know, it's as if so many people... after all these years... do not have a solid grasp on what being HIV positive means.

I have wondered this, so I thought I would articulate it. I'm just articulating something I've pondered, I don't mean to be stating absolutes.

Also, I think there is no currency in the argument that movies should be tailored in order to shape and nurture immpressionable viewers. I respectfully disagree with Chi Chi Larue that bareback porn motivates young viewers to parrot what they see.

If that were true - why then doesn't watching porn make you cheat on your wife? If that were true, why then doesn't watching gay twink porn motivate middle aged men to sexually molest seventeen year olds? Do all people who watch fisting movies engage in fisting themselves?

Countries like Canada or Australia still have government censorship boards because they cannot see the difference between fantasy and reality.

Is it possible that today's major gay porn producers think no differently in philosophy like a good old fashioned state censorship board?

Steve

PS: Along these lines I happen to be skeptical of "labeling" - particularly in our context of website labeling, or labeling of productions.

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Originally Posted by vainboys

Ultimately, life is 20% what happens to you and 80% how you respond to it, and we all have to live with the consequences of our own actions.

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well said

The Rocky thing made me sad, very sad i wished after reading the article that he had listened to friends and family and had given up meth, it will kill you reguardless of hiv. On that note, his death will not go in vain, i told some friends at AA a gay AA who know i sell porn and mostly gay now, and told them, it's AA but a lot are crystal "tina" queens who do the bareback bathhouse scene, when they are doing it and not thinking, our AA meeting because it's in the gayborhood and late 1130 pm is not that strict about drugs etc and accepts meth junkies etc. Well, i told them about Rocky and what it will do to them that aids, and hiv even tho now u can live with it for 30 yrs healthy even without meds with a good health plan, that with "tina" and hiv that Rocky died like it was 1984-81 poz to dead in 3 months and there wasn't shit that the hospital could do beacause "he" decided to continue "his" meth addiction and killed "his" system. And they took heed and realized what i told them! So he will not go in vain, but that said, notice i put in quotes, "he" and "his" it was not just hiv it was meth and BOTH, BOTH BOTH BOTH FUCKING BOTH HE! CHOOSE! sad as it may be.

We all choose our paths in life, and some of us have it harder than others, but in the end it is our choice, and if a man chooses on film or in the street or wherever to bareback, knowing the conequences, then so be it, and a lot of my traffic likes bareback porn, hopefully they are like me and realize that fantasy is better than reality, i myself love crackwhores and junkiewhores as a fantasy, a "fantasy" i will cum to say crackwhoreconfessions, a straight site, but i am not going to go pick up a crackwhore, because i am an ADULT and i know she is full of hiv, hep c etc and most likley crazy and will rob me and in the end with all the stress it wont be good sex, thats a fact of life, that when you grow up and become a man you will realize.

Rape has gone down 25% in the 10 years internet porn has been around, and other good things have happened, wheather we do this or that, in the end it is most advisable even with condoms not to act on what we sell, which is fantansy, and that is it, just fantasy, some people of low moral standards will act on what we sell, whether its mcdonalds cheeseburgers and make them fat and have a heart attack or achohol at a bar and they become alchoholics, in the end it comes down to personal choice, if someone choses not to be fat they won't eat at mcdonals everyday, if a gay man goes to a bathhouse and he is not a moron then he better well assume that the guy fucking him or he is fucking without a condom in a major city like philly or NYC or SF is poz if he doesnt, then he is a idiot, i may feel sad for him and will be his friend, but stoping it, no i won't, it's HIS choice!

I will sell gay bareback porn, that simple, as in the straight world i am the king and known for creampie, which is the internal ejaculation of a man into the vagina or anus, however that results in pregnacy and hiv etc, so it's a risk just the same, and it was THE INDIVIDUALS CHOICE, even if the girl doing the scence was a coke whore etc it was her choice.

In closing, i do have friends with hiv and friends who have sorley past :( but it was something they choose as adults, and it is sad that they past, but they had good lives that they choose, which includes bars and bathhouses and wild risky unprotected sex, which THEY enjoyed and the few i knew at thier death had no regrets, they were those wanna be famous queens that became famous and lived fabulos loves and tho they might have died at 30 or so they lived the lives of 50-100 others who lived to 100 and it was THEIR choice

i didn't find it that well said since it left out the possiblity that you might make something happen yourself rather than having things happen to you and responding. the most successful and happiest people i know seem to be the ones who make the most happen rather than just reacting...

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

well said

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I too read the article regarding the retirement of Kevin Clarke, I don't know the person but I am familair with his work. I'm not insulted with his long letter to the gayvn...The Barebacking issue is a big issue in the gay porn industry...studios are still filming it and its a major part of the gay adult video industry regardless if we like it or not.

I'm one of those studios that film limited barebacking scenes, we film 90% of our footage everyone has to wear a condom and 10% we film Bareback (depending on the scene and the film we like to shoot). Unfortunetly, in our business there is a great demand for Bareback films...everyone can say its bad or be against Bareback videos but the bottom line is that BB videos are in high demand.

I also think the gay industry is dramatically changing...producers like Kevin Clarke and others that have been in the industry for a long time and are well established, many of them our just too old to produce anymore plus the industry is changing and many of the "old timers" are just not getting on the technology band wagon. Just making a DVD and selling it is not as easy as it was in the 80's and early 90's when producing a VHS storyline type gay porn video. Back in the day, these guys had it much easier then today. There is much more competition...websites are poping up all over the place, online theaters are becoming more popular....distributors aren't purchasing as many videos as they did in the past...many retail stores are going out of business or getting less walk-in traffic all due to the fact that gay men are staying home and downloading porn or watching porn online. The DVDs that are coming out today are pasted together and thrown together and sent into the market place...many of the "old timers" that still want to film a storyline and try to be creative have a very big challenge...and besides these guys are tired....after doing this business for many years and dealing with the bullshit you get kind of tired...although this is our 5th season...and I'm 39 years old...I'm sure the time I reach 55 or 65 years old...I'm going to retire as well and get out of this business...I mean how long can you last! LOL!!! Just dealing with models, dealing with other back stabbing studios, dealing with collecting money...can place you in a early grave in this business!!!:bs:

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Originally Posted by desslock

Countries like Canada or Australia still have government censorship boards because they cannot see the difference between fantasy and reality.

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what does this statement mean. I'm sure Canadians and Australians on the board would like some clarity.

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Unfortunetly, in our business there is a great demand for Bareback films...everyone can say its bad or be against Bareback videos but the bottom line is that BB videos are in high demand.

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There's a great demand for CP too. Fortunately, it's illegal to produce, otherwise I guarantee there would be a million producers jumping on the bandwagon to produce that as well.

As much as I am uncomfortable with the notion of asking a model to take a risk that could cost him his life solely for my personal profit (and a few extra bucks I might offer him), I will still defend the First Amendment right of D&E (or any other studio) to produce bareback porn. I just have a problem with the argument I hear various studios using to the effect of "Well we *have* to do it to stay competitive" or "Well, it's in high demand, and our movies don't sell if we don't do it."

That simply isn't true.

Yes, bareback is big in Europe right now and some distributors won't take non-bareback titles. But our titles are still selling well there, as well as in the US. Ultimately, if you produce a high quality product with appeal, customers will buy it whether or not the models happen to be using condoms.

I was chatting online with a new content producer last night. He said "Well, we have no choice, some of our models refuse to use a condom, so we have to shoot bareback." And I shot back "That's a COMPLETE cop-out. You are the producer, you are in charge, what you say goes. If you say "condoms or no shoot", they will most likely wear condoms rather than lose the money for the shoot." He didn't have much to say in response, but the point got across.

If a producer wants to produce it, he has a right to do so. But please don't argue that "market forces are demanding that I do that to maintain my business." I am gratified to hear, quietly, from a number of studios that they have stopped shooting bareback content. Obviously, if they are doing that, it's not because of sales, but for other reasons. Quality adult content will sell, condom or no condom.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is what an individual website or studio owner is comfortable with. If a producer is OK with the idea that a model might get infected while shooting a bareback scene for his company (keeping in mind this can easily happen even with a freshly negative test result) by either shifting the responsibility to the model, saying that the money is more important, or arguing that the model probably barebacks anyway, that's certainly a producer's perogative.

Just please don't try to argue that "market forces dictate we produce bareback." That is a cop-out.