Whether to Vilify Underage Porn Models?

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Originally Posted by JamesXR

Can you really win anything from the government? Is any congressman going to stand up and say, "Hey, those porn producers have been so responsible lately, we should ease up on them and spend our money pursuing real crimes." No, that's not going to happen . . . . . Trying to be good for the government is like a physically abused child trying to be good for their physically abusive parents. It's an unhealthy relationship.
Alright, a lot of emotion went into that and I suppose my arguments will be cut down. I do think things like the Brent Corrigan fiasco could encourage more kids to try to break into porn early so long as that kind of thing is rewarded, and that's good reason to be more vigilant in age checking, but I don't think that the government cares if you crucify the models and block them from the industry.

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Right on.

IF the industry could establish a set of best practices that actually had teeth, and IF a significant number of the industry players would sign on, then we might be able to make a difference and send a message, both to producers and to models.

But... like everything else, you can never get people in the industry to agree on much of anything. You'd never get universal agreement on a standard of that sort because some greedy studio would always take the bucks over the ethics. And you'll never get universal agreement on other best practices because there are plenty of studios that do all sorts of shady stuff, whether it's twisting models arms into having sex with the studio owners, giving models drugs, failing to test models for STDs, lying about serostatus of models, or avoiding paying the models... or, for that matter, shaving affiliates, slow or no-paying designers, etc.

I do think that a set of best practices that actually outlined ethical, professional business practices, condemned unprofessional, inappropriate, or illegal behaviors, and set out reasonable precautions/protections/safety standards for models would go a long way toward improving the image of the industry and perhaps even getting subscribing studios and groups a certain amount of clout in the industry, and perhaps as the industry as a whole continues to mature, we'll eventually see that.

In the meantime, all we can do is individually do what seems right (or whatever we feel like if we don't give a fuck)

What worries me about Lee's attitude (which is not a lone opinion) is that it's a "Let's string him up as an example to others!" It scares me that this is a situation where in the face of a vindictive, but monolithic government the industry turns against itself, cruelly punishing members who step out of line to impress a government who doesn't care.
Also, what was Brent's crime here anyway? Didn't Chip mention that Bryan Kocis had taken underage material before and held it to release after the models turned eighteen, fudging the paperwork to make it look like it was done after eighteen?

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

But... to try to paint Bryan as an innocent victim is also way off. I never met the man or talked to him, but what we know without a doubt is that he was convicted of having sex with (and filming) a 15 year old boy. Bryan's attorney told the court, with a straight face, that Bryan, who was already a porn producer at the time, "didn't know" that he was supposed to have the ID of the model at the time the scene was shot. The attorney should be disbarred for that bold-faced lie to the court.

We also know from reports Chad has given that four models came to him separately, each reporting that they had shot content for Bryan, at Bryan's request, when they were 17, and the content was held until they were 18 and the "date of production" was faked to make it appear the content had been shot after the models were of age.

I spoke to one model in Pennsylvania who said Bryan had repeatedly approached him at 16 and 17 and begged him to do porn, which would be held for release until the model turned 18. And I have heard this same story from several of our model scouts and from other producers, coming from different models.

Also, Bryan knew or should have known that Sean was not 18 before any of his content was released; several people who knew Sean's real age contacted Bryan and told him as much after Sean ran his mouth about working for Cobra and before the content was released; one allegedly tried to "blackmail" Bryan into using him as a model with the threat of exposing the information about Sean. A responsible producer would have immediately sought third-party verification of Sean's age at the slightest whimper of a concern, but Bryan apparently instead chose to feign ignorance of the problem and rely on "plausible deniability."

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Given this situation, who cares how deceptive or jerky Brent is. Is Lee saying that he should be banned from the industry because he faked an id to do porn, or because he came forward about it. So what if he didn't come forward for altruistic purposes. If he was part of a larger problem with a studio isn't it good that he blew the lid off of it? Are we saying we need to be more serious about keeping underage kids out of porn, or are we saying that we need to be more serious about covering it up? From this light, Brent may be a total jerk, but it seems like he's a scapegoat for Cobra video. Seriously, boohoo, Cobra shot a series of underage models and one of them brought it to light. How could they ever have known that might come back to bite them in the ass?
Just how much underage twink material is floating around out there still on the market? If Cobra had other under eighteen models in their videos that material is probably still on the market. Are they the most irresponsible studio in the world? I'm guessing not. How widespread is this? Is this the gay adult industry or the Catholic church?
As for why anyone would work with Brent Corrigan, he's got name recognition. How hard is it to build that kind of name recognition? He might not be the easiest guy to be in business with, but one takes that into account. If he were a better businessman he might be much more successful today.

What if we change the discussion away from underage models for a minute, what if we change it to the topic of Reece Dylan, someone who scammed hundreds of thousands of dollars from companies in the adult industry, should we still allow Reece Dylan to be a part of the industry?

Where is the difference between someone like Brent and someone like Reece?

Regards,

Lee

As to Chip's most recent issue. I'd fully support best practices, not that I produce porn. You don't need full industry buy-in to be effective. You just need to focus on the choke points: major dvd distributors and their online equivalents like JUB, UGAS, BudPuppy, Cybersocket, and the webmaster boards. Come up with a seal of approval, "Model Safe" like for dolphin safe tuna, and enforce it. Then expand to take over the straight niche, just for the sake of calling straight a niche.

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Originally Posted by Lee

What if we change the discussion away from underage models for a minute, what if we change it to the topic of Reece Dylan, someone who scammed hundreds of thousands of dollars from companies in the adult industry, should we still allow Reece Dylan to be a part of the industry?

Where is the difference between someone like Brent and someone like Reece?

Regards,

Lee

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Apart from the topic change, that seems like something the Catholic church would pull, yes Reece Dylan, let's look at this Reece Dylan....
Lee, I'm straight. I don't know much about gay porn and I can't dance. I knew Brent because he had a pretty wide impact. Could you please bring me up to speed on Reece Dylan. Just the long and short of it. There are too many threads and google isn't showing so much info when I don't know what to look for.

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Originally Posted by JamesXR

Apart from the topic change, that seems like something the Catholic church would pull, yes Reece Dylan, let's look at this Reece Dylan....
Lee, I'm straight. I don't know much about gay porn and I can't dance. I knew Brent because he had a pretty wide impact. Could you please bring me up to speed on Reece Dylan. Just the long and short of it. There are too many threads and google isn't showing so much info when I don't know what to look for.

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You have all you need to know in the post of mine you quoted, he scammed hundreds of thousands of dollars out of individuals and companies in the industry, this was proved by many of us on GWW yet he still denied any wrong doing.

Should we allow him to come back and work in the adult industry and why?

Regards,

Lee

Actually, Lee, Reece seems a bit off-topic. Let me turn your question around and ask you, why would someone be tempted to work with this guy. Brent has a fan base and name recognition. All I know about Reece is his scammery. If I was starting www.scammerstakingitinthebutt.com, I might see doing business, but give me other reasons.

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How often do you run into underage models trying to sneak in, and how do you deal with them?

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also the question is how do you check?

We always require at least 2 forms of ID, the main state id and a secondary ID like a ss card or credit card with their name on it.

of course this dosnt help a lot if they have a government issued "fake" id, as in they have used their older brothers birth cert then opened a bank account/ credit card with the "fake" id.

how can one guard against this as it will pass almost any checks that we can do ?

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Originally Posted by JamesXR

why would someone be tempted to work with this guy.

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Because he promised to make a lot of people a lot of money, even at the height of his being found, he still had people defending him and working with him.

Regards,

Lee

Hey Collegeboyslive,
I understand the complications. Clearly if you wanted to make it your business you could find out everything about your potential models, but I don't think that "not being the CIA" is a punishable offense. I'm just wondering, how often do you bust someone trying to sneak past? I'm trying to figure out whether this is 17 year olds clamoring at the gates of porn, or if it just happens every now and then.

One of the tricks we learned from Patti is to have the model sign their release, watch him/her sign it, then compare the signature on the release with the signature on the ID. And, of course, also check the stats carefully. If the model takes a long time to sign their name, and/or if the signature doesn't match, or height is substantially different, you're probably not looking at the person on the ID.

We also use the same ID checking book that the banks and bars use, which has pictures of each state's drivers license and non-driver ID. We note in our records what edition and page of the book we checked, who checked it, and the date. It's of course not a complete protection, but it does show that we are taking every reasonable precaution to ensure that we don't hire an underage model.