What the Canadians were talking about this morning...

democracy in iraq/afghanistan is like the democracy in turkey

men are still the bosses and women are not. women still get raped and abused and it's allright but it is covered.

i have a turkish friend who's a tour gid over there, she got nearly killed by her husband around mid '95 and no one did anything, because she was a woman

anyone who thinks muslim men are just going to let their women be all they can be hasn't seen their side of the coin. and just saying women can vote doesn't count cause you have no fucking idea what goes on at home

so you would call a voting machine with no paper trail, sometimes coming with a pre-checked ballot, sometimes switching your votes to the opposite pary what exactly?!

or how about just trying to figure out how to vote, it's made unnecessarily hard. Amendment questions that are hard to understand that you need to have their wording explained so you know if yes means yes and if no means no

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Originally posted by desslock
Texas does not have initiative and referendum either --- unlike California or Oregon.

My five page ballot was filled with almost exclusively with people running for election. Sorry I didn't make that clear. That's my point that in that case, the US offers the voting citizen with a far greater opportunity to form its government. Also in Texas we elect all of our judges up to the state supreme court.

I'm sorry if I am defensive about it... but I've chosen to work all the elctions in west Austin since 1996... and it is frustrating to hear people whine and complain about how allegedly bad the system is, when they can easily go and also work that day to learn the actual process, and simultaneouly be performing a fun and useful civic duty.

There are always polls that open up late for some reason, or something screws up, but that is part of the system. Also - the 1960s brought us a large set of well needed Voting Rights (circa LBJ) many of which establish lots of the process we see today.

A lot of "problems" and "complaints" people voice today about electronic voting, voter registration, or ballot counting and reconciling are actually the effects of these laws. They are there for good reason and are beneficial.

Steve

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Well basically I think the difference is simple. We vote for issues, the USA votes for a party.

As to why such a long list in the USA on who to elect is simply that you can't trust who you elect to govern so you hedge your bets by voting for every thing under the sun.

Just my opinion.
Ian

"If America wants us to believe that they're the greatest democracy in the world, maybe they should look into having something other than Third-World style elections. "

What are you talking about "If America" this or that?

I'm not going to try and fathom what you think all 294,671,262 Americans want you to believe, but I will educate you.

This year 35 states had early voting systems in place where people have been voting as early as a week or more before Election Day. People who wait until the last minute to vote usually do have a longer wait.

People can vote by absentee ballot (which I did over a month ago) where voters can mail, or fax their vote in to the registrar.

We have had the highest voter turnout this year since 1968 and Americans see the high turnout as a positive, with a few glitches, but still a positive.

If you want to find out more about the American people go HERE

"How is someone who works for minimum wage supposed to take off a full day to go stand in line? "

Being that you're not living in America and not voting in our election I don't expect you to know that it's against the law to impede a persons right to vote and states have provisions for paid time off to vote. More information HERE

You seem to be focused on the "9 hours in line to vote" story, which was run about a small precinct in Georgia. The average wait time was 2-3 hours and friends of mine that voted in California had no wait at all. Instead of believing the "hype" your fed take a deep breath and look at the facts and the big picture. Even if every American who voted had to wait in line 9 hours (which they didn't), people have waited longer to buy concert or movie tickets, or to be a contestant on the T.V. Idol shows. And the truth be told, for the few people in that small precinct in Georgia that waited 9 hours to vote, waiting in line 9 hours to be a part of the American democracy is nothing compared to the lives lost pursuing, and maintaining, the freedoms that Americans have.

Being a resident Canadian it's important for you to remember that you are protected by the American people and have had many luxuries not afforded to other countries that don't share our borders. If your country were bordered with Iraq, Afghanastan, Russia, North Korea, China, Germany, etc., Canadian history, and the Canadian way of life, would be very different then it is today.

We should all be thankful for the luxury of having the time, and freedom, to debate this with eachother as most of the worlds population is either socialist or in a dictatorship and such talk would be cenesored or punished with imprisonment.

um... Squirt... I'm American.

I DID vote in this election. Through the State of New Mexico. As I have in the last 4 Presidential Elections.

I helped over 50 American Citizens living abroad to register to vote. I know how the system works. And the people who waited in line for 9 hours I was speaking of were in Ohio, not Georgia. Try watching more TV.... They were on Good Morning America and The Today Show.

An average of 2-3 hours wait to vote is still unacceptable for a country that's so hell bent on marketing itself as the be all and end all of Democracy. Especially one so full of people willing to lecture people from other countries about how much better off we all are with them there.

The US doesn't "protect" Canada anymore than it "protects" Mexico. And quite honestly, it shows a lot of Gual to tell Canadians that you're protecting us from a threat you created.

But go ahead and blather on about the freedoms you have down there. We're kinda used to hearing it from our neighbours down south. Maybe one day, you'll have as many as we do.

Jasun, you are on FIRE today!!! Wooo hooo!

Sorry Squirt but uh, protect us? Excuse me but we fought the Nazi's for 2 years before you entered the war, we fought the Kaiser for 3 years before you got into the war, and uh remember 1814 when you attacked us? We kicked your butt then.

Our freedoms don't come from you, without Canada where would your Early Warning System have been that kept YOU safe from Russian sneak attacks?

And if you want something more recent, just who was it that took in all those planes in the air during 911? Wasn't your own states, but CANADA! We put our own nation at stake to help you.

So I am sorry, but frankly, I am damn glad I am Canadian, glad I live in a country that believes in inclusion and not exclusion.

Sorry for the rant, I can feel for your frustration, but please, America is not Canada's savior.

Ian

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Originally posted by gaystoryman

And if you want something more recent, just who was it that took in all those planes in the air during 911? Wasn't your own states, but CANADA! We put our own nation at stake to help you.

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Too True. And Canadians opened their homes to stranded American Tourists and gave them shelter. We sent our Firemen to New York to help with the rescue effort, we went to Afghaistan to fight the Talliban.

What did we get for that?

Fuck All. Dubya snubbed us in his speeches where he named the countries who had helped, Canadian soldiers were bombed to death by a bunch of Trigger Happy Americans, and they didn't even say "oops", we were blamed for allowing terrorists into the US (as if we guard thier borders), and we've been shit upon by them in every stance. Dont go thinking that simply because America has a bigger army that you're any friend to us up here.

You're not.

In June of 2004, Canada went to vote as well, and their turnout was 60.5 percent, which is not bad, but the number of voters in Canada was 19 million. Compare 19 million with over 114 million voters in the US yesterday (and some in the week or two previous) and then ask yourself why you didn't have to wait in Canada like we had to wait here.

And please don't play the "I'm American, I'm Canadian" bullshit. You're American when it's convenient, and you're Canadian when it's convenient. Bottom line: you live in Canada, you work in Canada, you vote in Canada, you have citizenship in Canada, you say "we", "our", or "us" and you are talking about Canada, you are Canadian. Just because you can visit our country when you choose, and vote in our elections, does not mean you're an American.
Being an American means having trust in your country. Means accepting the downfalls while at the same time striving for something better. It means accepting what befalls us, for better of for worse, and striving for the American dream. It means having a choice in who to elect, from the highest level down to the lowest. From the president in Washington D.C., to the governer in my states capital, to the mayor in my city hall, to the sheriff patrolling my neighborhood. Being an American is a 24/7 job, one that never goes away when it's convenient. It means believing in democracy, society, and due process. It means working hard, paying taxes, and paving the way for our children to do the same.

I am an American. Not just because I was born here, but because I believe in America. I am an American.

Granted, our country has problems, but that's why we have a voice, why we have the choice to go make a difference. Every country has problems, they just seem to single us out because we're such a big target. They watch Jerry Springer, or they hear their country pass the blame on us for things their own countries are doing, and they make a decision on us. That's fine, we're used to it. The true Americans will not let it deter them from making a change.

People complain about our education system. I am a product of our education system. I am also a high school drop out. Did the system fail me? No, I failed myself. I chose not to go to school, and when I wisened up about the ways of the world, I received my G.E.D. and am paying my way through college working a fast food job. And if I didn't believe in paying for it myself, I could get the state and the country to pay my way through college. This IS the land of opportunity. To say that we don't provide education for our citizens is plain bullshit, it's just that a majority of the people who aren't educated, do not care to educate themselves. You cannot, no matter how hard you try, make someone learn if they don't want to.

We do have problems with healthcare, but they didn't arrive overnight, it has been a building problem. Perhaps if we only had 32 million people in our country like Canada, we could afford to offer free healthcare, but we don't. We have around 300 million. We have a huge influx of immigrants that take up our healthcare, our government benefits, but we're working to correct that. We're working to get healthcare to people who need it, but it's a tough battle. Healthcare is expensive, and for 300 million people, it's even more expensive. And to say that however many Americans don't have healthcare is laughable. Anywhere in America, you can enter a hospital and get treated. Granted, it will be expensive, but we do not turn people away to die in the streets, we take care of them. But yet again, this is one of the systems in America that we need to fix, as Americans, working for a better future.

I think I've ranted on enough for now. At the moment, I have to go to class and better myself, so that I can also better my country, instead of blaming it for all my misfortunes.

Michael

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Originally posted by Jasun
um... Squirt... I'm American.

I DID vote in this election. Through the State of New Mexico. As I have in the last 4 Presidential Elections.

I helped over 50 American Citizens living abroad to register to vote. I know how the system works. And the people who waited in line for 9 hours I was speaking of were in Ohio, not Georgia. Try watching more TV.... They were on Good Morning America and The Today Show.

An average of 2-3 hours wait to vote is still unacceptable for a country that's so hell bent on marketing itself as the be all and end all of Democracy. Especially one so full of people willing to lecture people from other countries about how much better off we all are with them there.

The US doesn't "protect" Canada anymore than it "protects" Mexico. And quite honestly, it shows a lot of Gual to tell Canadians that you're protecting us from a threat you created.

But go ahead and blather on about the freedoms you have down there. We're kinda used to hearing it from our neighbours down south. Maybe one day, you'll have as many as we do.

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OK Boys play nice now.

"um... Squirt... I'm American. "

You are a U.S. dual citizen Jasun. In formal terms you're an Expatriate aka ex-pat. It's strange you associate with being American all of a sudden, as in all your posts you've identified as being Canadian (i.e. "We all agreed that Americans were Butt-heads" "What we all were laughing at was how America blathers on and on" "If America wants us to believe that they're the greatest democracy.." )
So as much as you'd like to back track now and claim to be an "American" your heart, country of residence, and association, are Canadian. Which is fine. There is nothing wrong with being proud to be Canadian.

"And the people who waited in line for 9 hours I was speaking of were in Ohio, not Georgia."

Please post a link to a story saying people waited in Ohio 9 hours to vote, I can't seem to find one anywhere on the internet.

"it shows a lot of Gual to tell Canadians that you're protecting us from a threat you created."

What are you talking about?

I made the point that if you bordered most countries out there, including the ones I listed, your life as a Canadian, and your Candian history, would be much different, we all know that to be true, unless you think that bordering China the small population of Canada would 1) still speak Canadian 2) would still be Canada, not part of China! lol

"I DID vote in this election. Through the State of New Mexico. As I have in the last 4 Presidential Elections."

Your ignorance of American voting options, shown by the questions you asked, gave the impression that you weren't an American voter.

"But go ahead and blather on about the freedoms you have down there. We're kinda used to hearing it from our neighbours down south."

I'm in Australia, not down South and you can expect that when you bitch and moan in this thread about America, saying "We all agreed that Americans were Butt-heads" you and your friends were laughing at us etc, that someone would reply. It's sad that all you want to do is complain and attack people instead of have an open dialogue.

GayStoryman

"So I am sorry, but frankly, I am damn glad I am Canadian... "

Good .. we are all proud of where we come from, nothing wrong with that. Negative vibes really suck. I'm not the poster boy for America here but I'm proud to be American and I am thankful for the sacrifices made by those before me to allow me the freedoms I have.

Okay everyone. We are all allowed to post our feelings and our concerns. And those of us on the losing side of this election are very bitter and upset, so forgive us for letting off a little steam. However, I want you all to take a few deep, calming breaths, and keep in mind that while we may disagree on certain subjects, we all have a right to an opinion. Do not make personal attacks on each other (and yes, Jasun, even though we are friends, I have to put you in this boat as well). Fighting among ourselves solves nothing. Feel free to disagree, but please keep it from getting personal.

Thank you. :)

I voted in this election in Florida, as I have for may years prior, and turnout this time was much higher than before, but there are some reasons for the results that came in last night unfortunately....


First off, only 60% of registered voters came out to vote, even a record turnout, that still leaves 40% of eligible voters being silent and not doing their civic duty. Voter apathy is a HUGE issue, has been and will be unless things change.

Secondly, Mixing church and state is a very BAD thing to do. George W. Bush started out low key, but has since approached things as if he personally was fighting the anti-christ, and using America as his battlefield vehicle. WTF is this guy thinking? and to make it worse, people fall in line right behind him with their support. The democrats and the regular folks who arent so religious or right wing need to come up with compelling platforms and causes. There was a reason we tried to establish government separately from church. GOD should be determining who should be punished or exluded. It is definitely not George Bush's job, nor the job of any other politician to make those choices. When they do , they are PLAYING
God themselves.

Following the letter of a book written thousands of years ago, to settle contemporary issues is silly and quite stupid. Believe what you want, but use some intelligence, think things through. ,The answer will not come from a crusty old tome of anecdotes and songs.


Gay marriage amendments and directives: These things are short-sighted, discriminatory and quite honestly placed there to appeal to the most extreme right and religious voters. The gay population definitely did not push this issue for this election. And to make matters worse, how many of us stayed at home, didnt vote, didnt think it would matter? How about those who were suckered into voting for these? This round of anti-gay legislation is quite frankly frightening, and scary. How can the leading economy in the world make these choices? What is next? well since those darn gays arent allowed to marry, lets make it illegal for them to do anything... How about a gay interment camp? think thats a joke? wait and see. The ball is rolling downhill now.



Oh well, enough ranting for now..... We will see if people wake up by the next election. Maybe it wont truly be too late to right the wrongs....


One more parting thought. The current administration has been hell bent on doing what they want, when they want ,and not consulting with the rest of the world on any of it. And to make it even worse, the government hasnt been consulting their own citizens in these matters. Wouldnt it be better to change our foreign policy, while at the same time wisely pursuing the terrorists vigorously, instead of farting around with some oil in iraq? We made this mess, it needs to be cleaned up. What Bush has been doing , truly does NOTHING to resolve the issues in the first place. There needs to be peace and cooperation between christians, jews AND the arab world. Stop pandering so much to isreal, resolve the palestinian issue, and DO IT, we are worse off now on those issues and now have a bigger mess than ever with terrorists. And still the isreal-palestine thing brews on as if nothing has been discussed. What happened to all the treaties? the meetings, its all a bunch of crap

Squirt.. um... didn't you post like less than a week ago that you disliked living in the US so much that you'd moved the other side of the world? ( I don't remember your exact words... but they were to that effect)

I mean..

Um...

Why are we argueing with each other?

Why are any of us argueing with each other?

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Originally posted by Ounique
Okay everyone. We are all allowed to post our feelings and our concerns. And those of us on the losing side of this election are very bitter and upset, so forgive us for letting off a little steam. However, I want you all to take a few deep, calming breaths, and keep in mind that while we may disagree on certain subjects, we all have a right to an opinion. Do not make personal attacks on each other (and yes, Jasun, even though we are friends, I have to put you in this boat as well). Fighting among ourselves solves nothing. Feel free to disagree, but please keep it from getting personal.

Thank you. :)

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What's this BS Don? Your last post was "Jasun, you are on FIRE today!!! Wooo hooo!" now you tell everyone to calm down? LOL