Straight men acting in gay porn?

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Fatale Media
http://www.fatalemedia.com/index.html
are pioneers of authentic Lesbian for Lesbian explicit videos. They celebrate their 20th anniversary next year. What they produce is nothing like the typical "mainstream" sex industry "lesbian" porn.
Can you seriously imagine them hiring a "straight" female porn star for one of their productions? They require performers who are genuinely lesbian or at the very least very bisexual/alternative.

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I have heard many times, from many lesbians, 'i would love to see buffy and willow get it on' and 'jenna jameson is my favorite pornstar' ... from your posts you seem to be judging the choices of others 'if they do this they must be bi/gay/straight'. why do you need to pidgeon hole everyone?

some lesbians like to look at straight women ... some straight women like to look at other straight women ... some gay men find some straight women attractive ... many lesbians find straight women attractive ... some straight men find other men attractive ...

how many of the 'gay men' here find angelina jolie sexy? or any other celebrity who you will probably never have the opportunity to sleep with? I'm a straight woman and I LOVE men, but the movie Gia gets me sliding off my chair ...

porn is about fantasy, and I think the stereotypical sexuality/gender is irrelevant ... you don't have to 'be' something for that same something to turn you on ... I understood from your post that you were saying if a straight guy/gay guy has sex with other guys/straight girls for money he must be bi? why, because it doesn't fit your stereotype?

It always surprises me how those who get the most worked up about being judged do the most judging .... i'm just curious, why the need to neatly put everyone's sexuality in a box that you can understand?

I don't really understand why you would want to be a lesbian, how you could possibly go without a nice juicy cock every now and again - but I don't need to understand it to accept it.

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Originally posted by cj.
porn is about fantasy

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Hmm.. that made me think LOL

As porn is all about fantasies and, indirectly, living them out vicariously through your computer screen.. what happens when the individuals fantasy becomes fulfilled?

I mean i know for a fact some surfers love nothing more than getting off while watching a couple fuck, regardless of sexual orientation or gender, as adults, when we see something happening that either;

A) Panders to our fantasy or;
B) Actually fulfills our fantasies

Will that then entail that the said fantasy no longer 'does it' for the individual in question?

At what point do we stop catering to the 'fantasy' in order to ensure the surfer hasnt seen it all and, ultimately, continues to be a porn surfer on or in, our members areas?

Regards,

Lee

Lee, in a nutshell .... people & trends change!

i'm sure eventually most surfers will be over the fantasy of driving up beside a straight guy, putting a bag over his head, and having a guy suck his dick LOL

the question we as webmasters are always asking ourselves is 'whats next' ... we do this for exactly the reason you are saying - once a fantasy is fulfilled, another must take its place! ;-)

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Originally posted by cj.
the question we as webmasters are always asking ourselves is 'whats next' ... we do this for exactly the reason you are saying - once a fantasy is fulfilled, another must take its place! ;-)

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The answer there is to diversify, not to go to further, unhealthy, extremes. Creating new niches is great as long as you're not taking yourself, and your business, somewhere you don't want to go. You hear about people quitting this business because they go to more and more extremes in the content they create.

I think when a surfer gets tired of one genre ( straight guys ) they might get into ( Gay anal ) or many of the other things available out there.

Lee
"At what point do we stop catering to the 'fantasy' in order to ensure the surfer hasnt seen it all and, ultimately, continues to be a porn surfer on or in, our members areas?"

I think people go through stages in relation to porn. People do find love/relationships, and end up not needing porn so much. Our annual summer slump is due to the fact that people are out having fun getting laid :-D We can't control what a surfer will like, but we can control our creation of a quality product that makes our niche happy. If we have a strong niche a good idea would to have other niche sites, in different gentres, available from our members area for the subscribers to transition to, that way, if they get bored, they have something different that you're providing them. My .00002cents

Damn I slaughtered that last paragraph with crapy typing... sorry :bush:

Welcome Lezgeri!:) ,
No , I Don't Believe You Are The Only Lesbian Here:) , And Yes , It's Possible For "Straights" To Do "Gay-Porn" (My Guys Do With "Cash-Incentives"!):)

Sincerely ~ "Gay-Pays":)

Wow...I sit here and think "what can I say that hasn't been said?" and then I realize:

Lez...in your original post you said:
"He says he is straight. I have no problem believing that - why not? he has the right kind of body for it."
Could you please clarify exactly what is the 'right kind of body' to be believably straight?

Perhaps you meant that he has the right kind of body to do porn, or specifically gay porn. So although he is, in fact, believably straight...you accept the fact that he would be willing to DO gay porn. Let me comment on a few things that I have learned and add my often wordy but humble-at-heart 2 cents.

CJ...I fucking love reading your posts. You are a woman of wisdom and one I'm truly glad to have met. If it weren't for porn, that never would have happened. CJ and I are, quite litterally, half a world away from each other. That is just one small example of the diversity of people that are brought together by the adult industry. Sexuality is something so basic to humanity that you have to know it is as diverse as humans themselves. Lez, you seem pressed for an explanation to help you accept or believe that certain people will or will not act certain ways given a certain set of circumstances. That will never happen. Every breath we take nourishes a different set of cells than the breath before. Every instant is it's own story.

Another thing I've learned from this industry is that every human being has a price. That price isn't always money, but everything and everyone has a price. For instance, sometimes gay men and women want to be parents and reproduce...some of them even do it the old fashioned way! The price they pay to spread their DNA around the gene pool is that they go through with an act that is, perhaps, unnatural or uncomfortable for them. But, to them, that is a perfectly affordable price.

Why should you consider the dynamics of sexuality in relation to the production of pornography any differently? Money is a POWERFUL motivator. And that's only ONE of the motivating factors.

Your comparrisons seem to be a bit misdirected. You say: "Gay men seem to adore the idea of straight guys going gay-for-a-day, gay-for-pay. It probably helps affirm their belief that straight men would enjoy gay sex if they were only willing to give it a go.

Conversely however, as you may well already be aware, for a gay woman watching a girl-on-girl "lesbian" video the notion that these are straight women pretending to be lesbians is very unlikely to be a turn-on, in fact the exact opposite." What you're mising there is that men and women view porn for different reasons, with different responses. They have different biological triggers. These are differences between men and women...NOT between gay men and straight men and lesbians and straight women. Sexual orientation isn't the issue, gender is. There are, of course, varying degrees...but generally speaking, men are visually stimulated. We don't care so much about the psychology behind WHY that particular cock is going in that particular ass as we care about the fact that it's a big hard cock going into a beautiful tight ass! Women, conversely, get turned on by the fantasy, the psychology and the realistic possiblity of a scene. In case you hadn't noticed, it's not just the majority of lesbian porn that caters to straight men...it's the majority of straight porn as well. Do you think most straight women really get turned on watching Ron Jeremy fuck some girl with an iq of 2? Probably not. If you're interested in more on that, check out a recent AVN Article about Red Light Interactive

As usual, I've gone on for way too long...but I love the spirit of community and the education in humanity that I get from GWW. Welcome! Thank you for adding your own unique assets to our family.

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Originally posted by cj.
I have heard many times, from many lesbians, 'i would love to see buffy and willow get it on' and 'jenna jameson is my favorite pornstar' ... from your posts you seem to be judging the choices of others 'if they do this they must be bi/gay/straight'. why do you need to pidgeon hole everyone?

some lesbians like to look at straight women ... some straight women like to look at other straight women ... some gay men find some straight women attractive ... many lesbians find straight women attractive ... some straight men find other men attractive ...

how many of the 'gay men' here find angelina jolie sexy? or any other celebrity who you will probably never have the opportunity to sleep with? I'm a straight woman and I LOVE men, but the movie Gia gets me sliding off my chair ...

porn is about fantasy, and I think the stereotypical sexuality/gender is irrelevant ... you don't have to 'be' something for that same something to turn you on ... I understood from your post that you were saying if a straight guy/gay guy has sex with other guys/straight girls for money he must be bi? why, because it doesn't fit your stereotype?

It always surprises me how those who get the most worked up about being judged do the most judging .... i'm just curious, why the need to neatly put everyone's sexuality in a box that you can understand?

I don't really understand why you would want to be a lesbian, how you could possibly go without a nice juicy cock every now and again - but I don't need to understand it to accept it.

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Hi cj & everyone else,

This is turning into a really interesting and thoughtful post. Thanks guys.

Actually cj, I hate to pidgeon hole people, sexuality or anything else. I certainly dislike being pidgeon holed myself so why would I wish to really do it to any one else? Also I think that Fatale Media might hire a "straight" porn star under certain circumstances - what they wouldn't do is use her talents in the way they are usually used.

Sometimes you have to adopt a certain stance to provoke an honest response.

I do not identify myself as a lesbian either by the way. Maybe bisexual with a bias would be more accurate.

I would suck a man's cock if it was attached to a man I felt some kind of attraction to. I would even suck it for free if I liked him enough (my one attempt at humor in this particular post)

My real concern was with abuse. I am uncomfortable with the notion that I am participating in anything abusive - hurting another human being.

I am uncomfortable with the notion that a man or a woman should be compelled to act entirely against their nature - i.e. a straight boy having to act gay & hating every moment of it. I am uncomfortable with the attitude that I have encountered among certain web masters that seem to think this is okay if they are being paid - " They do what they have to do to get paid " - are they saying " so who gives a damn? " - well I do for one. Rapists often offer their victims money or presents as compensation. The 2 situations can get to close for comfort.

When a person takes the very momentous decision to perform in explicit adult material they will undoubtedly have their sexual horizons broadened one way or another - I have no problem with that
as long as they are enjoying their work. If they discover a greater level of bisexuality within themselves there is nothing wrong with that. If they are acting gay and still defining themselves as a straight person then as far as I am concerned they are either denying their capacity for bisexual behaviour (of some kind) or they are saying I am being abused.

They are certainly not doing anything to further the cause of bisexual rights. And you could say well why should they? They're just doing a job.

Look I just want to see more honesty in the world and a lot less pain.

If the New York Times ran an article on Straight boys acting in Gay Porn if some thoughtless webmaster was quoted as saying "they do what they have to do to get paid" what do we think the general reaction among general public would be to that? It wouldn't do the adult industry any good would it? Surely not.

The sad reality is that we are all participating in a field that has a very abusive fringe element to it- i.e. the "illegal shit". We must always work towards eliminating that abusive fringe and not allow ourselves to be corrupted by it. It's a very fine line surely if we are not careful- let's be honest about it. Please.

Hi Jason,

I hope that my latest post will help clarify my position.

Historically (herstorically for those that favour the term) a large section of the women's' movement has campaigned against porn. And many feminists still do. It is a very emotive issue for them. They almost always focus on the bad and disregard the good.

I enjoy explicit material - I think most women do if they are being honest with themselves. I don't want to be made to feel guilty or ashamed about it. To support my position I must regard the good and work against the bad.

Make sense?

My reference to "having the look for it" - meant that he is a handsome lad with a nice fit body. The kind of man you frequently see in gay porn. Which I look at quite often by the way. I wasn't suggesting anything more than that.

Agreed...and a good point well made. But there's a reason it's called work. There's a reason they're paid. Do you think that single mothers who are "forced" to work 2 or 3 thankless, physically demanding and underpaying jobs in order to feed their kids are any less used by their employers? Employers use employees. Always have, always will. The best we can strive for is to work a job that we enjoy most of the time. Most people I know in this industry who work as talent enjoy what they're doing most of the time. Even the "straight" guys who are gay-for-pay. Hey, a good blow-job is enjoyable most of the time...regardless of who's giving it! They enjoy the attention and the flattery. They CERTAINLY enjoy the money. And they enjoy the throngs of clueless young women who think that, because they do gay porn, they must be gay...and if they can bag him they've managed the impossible task of conversion! As long as a person is not held against his/her will, blackmailed or otherwise locked in to a circumstance the fact remains that we have choices. Some choices are hard to make. Some choices require greater sacrifice. And some choices are given freely to others to make for us, so that we can avoid claiming responsibility.

I agree, it is a fine line. I recommend that, unless you're highly confident and comfortable with yourself and your choice to work in the adult industry, you not do it until you are. You will encounter countless young men and women who are anything BUT confident. You will encounter countless other men and women who exploit those vulnerabilities for a profit.

We may be full of gorgeous people, but it's still a pretty ugly business. I have met many strong, generous, intelligent, caring and inspirtational people through this industry. But for every one of us who truly cares about who we are, and the way we treat our fellow human beings, there are a dozen more who will entice some kid into a basement with starry-eyed dreams of international stardom, only to realize that "All that glitters in this world will fade away again."

There is good and bad in everything. Do what is right by you and, if you believe in a higher power, by that higher power. Those are the only accountabilities you can afford. Then trust that your example will further the cause of what is right.

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Originally posted by Jason
But for every one of us who truly cares about who we are, and the way we treat our fellow human beings, there are a dozen more who will entice some kid into a basement with starry-eyed dreams of international stardom, only to realize that "All that glitters in this world will fade away again."

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It's the same in any part of the entertainment industry. People see riches and fame when they get paid to be in front of a camera. How many major porn stars are getting steady work after 5 years? That's why it's always important to be honest with these guys and tell them what the real deal is and not to quit their day jobs. I always stress that, at best, porn is a hobby, not a profession.

JASON!!!!!!!!

*big hugs*

how was the move?! i've been waiting for your return to the board!
Thank you for the kind words ;-) You know the feeling is mutual!

LezGeri, you have thought about this subject a lot I take it? LOL :-)

This is a very thought provoking statement:

>>>If they are acting gay and still defining themselves as a straight person then as far as I am concerned they are either denying their capacity for bisexual behaviour (of some kind) or they are saying I am being abused.

I think the key word her is *acting* ... if an actor takes on a role as a drug addict or an actress takes on a role as a prostitute, should they admit their inner addict/prostitute just because they act the role convincingly?

There are a ton of stories from adult stars who say their life has been a string of abuse - and yet they continue to return to the source of the abuse. I don't think it is an issue of sexuality as much as its an issue of *people* with a low value of themselves. And it annoys me when I hear interviews "I had no choice" - I want to bitch slap these spoilt wannabe's and show them what it really means to not have a choice!!!! ;-)

If you look at every area of society where there are abuse issues - wives who let themselves get beat up repeatedly (and i say 'let' because they return), children who have been abused who don't know any other kind of life, sexual assault/rape etc, sex is rarely the issue - its about 1 person having power over another. Making a porno isn't about 1 person having power over another or any of those social issues, its about the director/maker of the movie making money from his profession.

I think its a waste of energy to be concerned about the wellbeing of actors who have **chosen** to spread their cheeks for money and were well compensated financially for it, when there are still children being abused and photographed for the entertainment of sick adults.

There's plenty of genuine problems in this world to worry about and to try to solve, I think if someone makes a choice to do whatever they do, they should accept responsibility for it - not copout claiming they didn't know what they were doing.

Do you think that single mothers who are "forced" to work 2 or 3 thankless, physically demanding and underpaying jobs in order to feed their kids are any less used by their employers?

Yes I do. The sexual element makes a world of difference. As I said it is a momentous decision to work in the adult industry - in front of the camera or behind it. But especially in front of it. It has the potential to effect your life far more profoundly than any run-of-the-mill dreary job does. Consider the baggage.

Hi cj again.

Got to think some more about everything you have said but first thing I pick up on is;
"I think the key word here is *acting* ... if an actor takes on a role as a drug addict or an actress takes on a role as a prostitute, should they admit their inner addict/prostitute just because they act the role convincingly?"

I have heard this kind of argument already about "acting". In a movie about a drug addict nobody surely is going to ask an actor to take drugs in order to play the role convincingly? God I hope not! If he or she takes drugs of their own free will in order to get more into the role - that is not only taking method acting to dangerous extremes, it will actually impair their performance - their ability to act. In porn the cock goes into the orifice doesn't it? The specific requirements of making hardcore porn go way beyond the normal requirements of acting.

It reminds me of a conversation with my mother who thinks only softcore should be legal. She thinks all acts should be simulated as they are in mainstream movies - that's acting -it's not doing it for real.

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Originally posted by LezGeri
Do you think that single mothers who are "forced" to work 2 or 3 thankless, physically demanding and underpaying jobs in order to feed their kids are any less used by their employers?

Yes I do. The sexual element makes a world of difference. As I said it is a momentous decision to work in the adult industry - in front of the camera or behind it. But especially in front of it. It has the potential to effect your life far more profoundly than any run-of-the-mill dreary job does. Consider the baggage.

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I am well aware of the differences. Since we don't know each other, I'll tell you, I started as talent. I made some good choices and some very bad ones along the way. Just like everybody else. Exploitation is exploitation...sexual or not. I certainly know what baggage comes with the decision to work in front of a camera, you don't have to detail it for me. And I know what effects it had on my life. My point wasn't to minimize the effects that working as an adult performer can have...but to emphasize that, these are people who are entering into agreements of their own free will. It is important, from the employer's stance, to let the performers know some of the potential consequences.

Again, my advice to you is that, if you are seriously doubting the validity of what you're doing in adult, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it. Maybe you're not...maybe this is all about provoking thought and discussion. Thank you for that.