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I just joined this forum today and posted for the first time on another thread before reading this one.
my 3 cents...
At the end of the day the person getting the hosting bill gets the final word on how a site is run.
Speech maybe free (well it was as of this moment in time, congress make take this away from us later) but web hosting is not.
Agree to disagree and move forward or find a solution to the problem. Who can mend the fences between the three groups?
I think people using the word "nazi" in correlation to the actions of a person, or company, being controlling, misleading or a dictatorship, is reasonable and understandable. When someone says, "I understand what's going on but why is GWW closing threads?? Very Weird Reminds me of the Nazis.", we all know in what context they are referring.Quote:
Originally posted by gaystoryman
I also hate it when people bandy the word 'nazi' around. I am sorry because being Jewish, I know what that word conjures up. The actions taken are 'authoritarian' and some may even feel they are 'unwarranted' but it is in no way being a 'nazi'. Nazi's brutally killed millions simply because they were 'different' so to compare the actions by any person here to that travisty is just not right in my view.
That doesn't mean I agree with the decisions made but this isn't my board. From a business viewpoint I feel that this is not condusive to open dialogue and business progression but again, not my business.
I'm late in the game regarding this drama as the posts are now deleted and I didn't read them, so count me in as a person successfully censored by GWW. I don't know what it is that's being hidden, so if someone here does feel free and PM me and fill me in.
Boards have dramas and people get over them. I've had threads locked here; I've been talked down to by Gary Allen, etc. etc. No dramas, it's not a big deal and you accept GWW for what it is.
The quicker people get over this drama the better, but I think censoring communication just makes this kind of thing fester even longer then if no action was taken and people could have talked it out in the open.
Keeping things private and behind closed doors is very contrary to what an open forum is supposed to be. Then again, GWW is what we make it. :high:
Squirt -
Thanks for the clarification on use of the word NAZI in some of the previous threads. I assume we are all educated and know about the Holocaust and by no means comparing it to that. BTW - I am gay and Jewish as well.
Thanks everyone for your feedback on this issue so far it has been taken into consideration. However, i must say that as of yet, there has not been a single explanation posted as to why those two companies names and the staff posting on their behalf SHOULD be unbanned.
Just to clarify a point here, on Friday, 'grownupboy' joined the GWW community forums and posted to ONE thread only with the sole intention of disrupting the GWW community and, now that that has happened, there has been no further contact from Karl or, from any of his schills that he subsequently got to bump that thread when all issues had been discussed.
Surely if their company names being banned meant so much to them, the two company owners would have had some sort of contact with me directly about this issue? Instead, they chose to have people posting on their behalf to further disrupt the GWW community.
Think about what you people are actually doing before posting, it seems that those two companies do not care they have been banned from GWW, if they dont care, why do you?
Regards,
Lee
The companies, and people posting on their behalf, should be un banned because an open forum, by nature, is open to all, except those that break the forum rules, of spamming etc. There are alot of people that love Lee, Gary Allen, etc. and will jump to your defense publicly here.Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Thanks everyone for your feedback on this issue so far it has been taken into consideration. However, i must say that as of yet, there has not been a single explanation posted as to why those two companies names and the staff posting on their behalf SHOULD be unbanned.
Another reason this should all be undone is because you censoring or banning people in this instance give you an heir of guilt, or blame, like you're trying to hide something. AGAIN.. I want to reiterate here I know little about this whole thing but what posts I've seen here in the aftermath.
From what I've been able to discern reading the posts here, it seems people take issue with threads being locked and GWW being censored. It seems that the actual banning of the companies was just a catalyst to the actions of GWW that people are taking issue with.
Reading these posts it seems the buzz is about censorship and lack of open communication, not the actual two companies being banned. I could be wrong though as I haven't read the threads that were deleted and don't know the whole story. :high: ..
Squirt,Quote:
Originally posted by Squirt The companies, and people posting on their behalf, should be un banned because an open forum, by nature, is open to all, except those that break the forum rules, of spamming etc.
You do bring up a good point there however, i would have to refer you to the registration form for the GWW community specifically, the section i quoted below:
So whilst you do bring up some valid points, because by registering for the GWW community EVERYONE has entered into this agreement, they do become moot points.Quote:
At our sole discretion we may ban you from posting on these forums temporarily or, indefinitely for one or more of the following reasons:
Verbal abuse to other members / moderators / admin team.
Continual spamming of the forum.
Flooding the forum unnecessarily.
This list is not exhaustive and any other action that our moderators and / or admin team feels validates the use of any ban is final.
Regards,
Lee
Think about what you people are actually doing before posting, it seems that those two companies do not care they have been banned from GWW, if they dont care, why do you?
I only care that you so stubbornly rejected letting anyone else maintain a discussion on the issue, immediately banning every thread where members expressed an opinion about it.
I can't help but second guess the attitude from which such a policy arises. Dictating to people who make up the bread and butter of this board that they're not allowed to express an opinion on the matter hardly seems like a reasonable way to go about things.
Is this board your business and under your control? Certainly. But your business consists of putting forth the notion that this board itself is good for our businesses. Filtering opinion and shutting out feedback and dictating what can and can not be expressed doesn't do any of the members' businesses any good, and that in turn doesn't seem like a very effective way of running your own.
Brian again, you seem to think that GWW is some sort of democracy. It isnt, it never has been and, most likely, never will be. GWW is a business, my business.Quote:
Originally posted by BDBionic
Dictating to people who make up the bread and butter of this board that they're not allowed to express an opinion on the matter hardly seems like a reasonable way to go about things.
Politics weigh very little in how i run my business and ultimately, how i operate GWW in its entirity.
If i choose to lock a thread for ANY reason, i am entitled to do so, without explanation to anyone whether other community members like that or not, they are the simple facts of the matter.
As for not allowing the censorship option to be discussed, i thought that was the whole purpose of THIS thread and, it is being discussed.
Regards,
Lee
I don't think their intentions were not against "the community". But instead against you and your events.Quote:
Just to clarify a point here, on Friday, 'grownupboy' joined the GWW community forums and posted to ONE thread only with the sole intention of disrupting the GWW community and, now that that has happened, there has been no further contact from Karl or, from any of his schills that he subsequently got to bump that thread when all issues had been discussed.[/B]
I don't like the way this board looks now.
This is pretty much the only place where I post. I have learned a lot from the users of this board, I don't like the way you handle it when you started locking and closing Threads.
I'm glad you left this one open so we the users can express our opinion.
I could care less if you banned their company names but I think is not right when you stop people to comment on things the affect "the comunity" (If there's one anymore.)
Oh, trust me, I most absolutely don't even pretend to consider that notion in the slightest. I'm neither so blind or foolish to be under that impression. I'm simply stating that what you have every right to do isn't necessarily the same as what is the right thing to do.Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Brian again, you seem to think that GWW is some sort of democracy. It isnt, it never has been and, most likely, never will be.
It's your right to make that assertion.Quote:
Politics weigh very little in how i run my business and ultimately, how i operate GWW in its entirity.
Again, you are most certainly entitled to do just that. But that doesn't translate in to it being the wise, reasonable and proper thing to do.Quote:
If i choose to lock a thread for ANY reason, i am entitled to do so, without explanation to anyone whether other community members like that or not, they are the simple facts of the matter.
It's not entirely philanthropic to give back to someone something you took from them in the first place.Quote:
As for not allowing the censorship option to be discussed, i thought that was the whole purpose of THIS thread and, it is being discussed.
Hindsight as they say, is 20/20 and, i could have handled the situation a little better than i did however, with the locking of those threads it certainly wasnt done with the intent of stiffling anybodys opinions on the matter.Quote:
Originally posted by Takemytaco
I don't like the way you handle it when you started locking and closing Threads.
It was done to simply put an end to the bullshit caused by the two banned companies and, by looking at the majority of the people who actually did start those threads, i hope everyone can see that.
We have had people starting threads who, up until today, have never posted on the GWW community before and, dont even work in the gay market in ANY capacity.
Simply put, the locking of threads was done to contain the bullshit being posted by those associated with and, on behalf of the two companies who were banned.
Did i handle this incorrectly? You bet, i should have explained why the threads were being locked, this is an experience i shall learn from should the need to lock threads ever arise again.
Regards,
Lee
Aly, Holly, JustMe, myself, Mark, Rand, Randy, Jason, Ed and Squirt?Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
by looking at the majority of the people who actually did start those threads, i hope everyone can see that.
We have had people starting threads who, up until today, have never posted on the GWW community before and, dont even work in the gay market in ANY capacity.
bullshit being posted by those associated with and, on behalf of the two companies who were banned.
Well I admire it whenever someone is able to admit a mistake, especially publicly. And I look forward to participating on a board on which that experience has been learned from.Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Did i handle this incorrectly? You bet, i should have explained why the threads were being locked, this is an experience i shall learn from should the need to lock threads ever arise again.
Sigh, make that five posts and I'm out. But I'll be happy to remind you that I've posted on GWW since 99 :)
Why should they be unbanned? Here's what I think.
First, I understand why the discussions were cut off. As I said earlier, people were joining this forum specifically to fight. They had not contributed anything to this forum before this moment in time. In fact some people with less than 10 posts to their name claim to have been posting here since 1999, but I've been here since 2003 and I sure haven't seen them in the past year and a half.
Second, the discussion was allowed to continue. The thread went on all weekend.
Third, something had to be done to put a lid on a cancerous situation that was taking up too much of the board's resources.
Fourth, if Lee is having a dispute with a peer in the business, he is not obligated to let us sit by the sidelines, watching and cheering. He's within his right to shut it down and request it be moved to private.
Having said all of this, I'll say that the companies involved should be unbanned because I'm all for keeping the peace and giving people "second chances" so to speak. A number of board members have expressed in this thread that they aren't sure now about what they can and can't say, etc. This is obviously affecting the entire community. And the last thing any of us wants is to loose the community we've all worked hard to build here. Because as many boards as there are out there, there ain't another one like GWW.
So, perhaps if we could all agree that this issue is between Karl, Morgan, and Lee, and is not to be discussed publicly; and if the individuals involved would agree not to send people to this forum to force the discussion of this issue on their behalf; and if all of the people who joined this forum simply to cause trouble would either contribute something useful to this forum or leave; then perhaps Lee would consider lifting the ban and we could all get back to the business of discussing how to best run our websites and make money.
Sometimes we need to agree to disagree and move on.
Respectfully,
Dzinerbear
I definitely don't think it's in anyone's best interest to attempt to go about banning words, much less entire companies.
I think it was a kneejerk reaction more motivated out of personal vindictiveness and sensitivity than objective or rational business aims. Obviously that's my personal opinion and no more, but I'm sharing it.
I think Steve brought up a good point in that it could be a disservice to members here, new arrivals most specifically, when they're attempting to solicit information and advice only to find that entire blocks of words are banned.
Whether or not Lee likes it, C*ybersocket and B*edfellow are active in the industry and run popular, well known, well used programs, services, events and operations. U*GAS is banned while being one of the largest gay AEN services in the market. GayWebmasterC*hat is banned while being an active webmaster community, especially among TGP and MGP owners.
Everyone, this board's administrator/owner included, is entitled to have their own agenda. But at the very least, please don't try and suggest that it's an untainted and unskewed webmaster resource when it's obvious who is and who is not welcome, along with what can and what can not be said, is at the mercy of the powers that be. If a webmaster resource is going to be comprehensive and accessible, its administrator is going to have to swallow the fact that sometimes people he's not too fond of will end up being granted some presence, if at the very least the occasional mention, in order for a full array of potentially valuable information to be made available to those using the resource.