"Holy men" unite in their hate against gay men

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Originally Posted by Lee

Ill never deny anyone the right to their opinion, even if i do think their viewpoint is wrong.

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Didn't you ban people a while back because they had views contrary to yours, or something along that line? If I type in *********** what do you see? Hhhhmmmm

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Originally Posted by Lee

They are? So why wasnt homelessness tacked during the last election?

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Strange a homeless heterosexual has more rights then me. I think my right to be equal is a bit more pressing since a homeless heterosexual couple have more rights then a Gay couple that have never been unemployed, through the system and make $1million a year ( hypothetical )

Either way homelessness was an issue during the election ( just one link ) and ( another ) Google search for homeless 2004 election

JustMe is absolutely correct. The government is very big and capable of handling more then one thing at a time.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

Didn't you ban people a while back because they had views contrary to yours, or something along that line? If I type in *********** what do you see? Hhhhmmmm

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No i banned those two companies because quite frankly i think their owners are cunts.

Thats my opinion and as i run my business how i see fit that was the decision i chose in dealing with them.

Others may have a different opinion than me on the two company owners and im fine with that, thats their right :)

Lets not confuse denying someone their rights with running a business, they are two completely different things ;)

Regards,

Lee

seems to me that gay marriage was used to divide people. do i think same-sex couples should marry? of course! but if you think that bush didn't gain votes from people who are totally afraid of what gay marriage might mean, guess again. i've met some.

we have a LOT of homeless people in l.a., plus unbelievable amounts of child abuse and women beaten and killed by their male domestic partners. our emergency rooms are being closed due to lack of funds, and there are people here who are hungry - even starving - and violence and overcrowding are a part of life. and we haven't touched on such issues as the fact we are in a war right now that most of the people i know feel we shouldn't be in.

so i'm sorry - i'd vote for gay marriage any day, however i think that taking care of people who may not survive takes first place. politicians who want to help with survival issues are not elected because they support gay marriage.

it sort of reminds me of the thing with gray davis. democrats didn't like him, but it was a republican that helped get him thrown out of office and arnold elected. arnold - who does dinner with the bushes, and is a republican. so the democrats got what they wanted - the felt getting davis out of office was that important - and now we have a governor who is a conservative and is fucking up stuff like education and hospitals left and right. so who really won?

is making any point worth letting more christian republicans into office?

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Originally Posted by Lee

What are you talking about? Please point out exactly where i said that anywhere above.

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Well you answered this question in your last post to JustMe so it's a moot point but your stance on not speaking out and being noticed indicates you don't want change, and change would be equal rights. I'm not sure how exactly you think we will have equal rights without being counted and heard, it would be nice if we lived in a world like that I guess.

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Originally Posted by Lee

Hang on a second, we are different but we want equal rights? Something doesnt sound right there. Surely because we are different we should have different laws to everyone else? I mean, lets not just stop at gay marriage, lets have new laws for everything just because we are gay.

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The very definition of a minority states we are different. I've never advocated having different laws for everyone. We should have the same laws and a few simple words can change that, "marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman, woman and a woman, or man and man." No laws need be changed. A partner, of any sex, should have the same rights and benefits as any other partner. Very simple.

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Originally Posted by Lee

Im sorry but I am not a minority. You may be but i certainly am not.

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I'm sorry I always assumed you are Gay. Are you Gay Lee? If so you fit the definition of a minority "A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society."

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Originally Posted by Lee

Squirt, you seem to be under some dillusion or illusion that people actually care. Reality check, the vast majority of people in the world, really dont. You rminority may do but, i can guarantee you that more people care about their health than whether or not same sex couples can marry.

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Lee the point isn't just marriage.. I've said that. It's equal rights!

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Originally Posted by Lee

Hang on a second. Where did the constitution come in to this? Now you are just thinking logically.

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:P

Patti,

Can you hit me up on icq if you have a sec hon :)

Got some info that you might like ;)

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

No i banned those two companies because quite frankly i think their owners are cunts.

Thats my opinion and as i run my business how i see fit that was the decision i chose in dealing with them.

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Yes yes yes I know I know I know. But you have to admit your statement was a bit ironic ha ha. I'm not involved in the tiff you all had, I was just making a point. :high:

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Originally Posted by Squirt

your stance on not speaking out and being noticed indicates you don't want change, and change would be equal rights.

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Where did i say that i dont speak out and get noticed? Again i think you are reading into my replies more than you are supposed to.

I would love for their to be equal rights for EVERYONE not just same sex couples the reality of it is, i dont find that to be an important issue right now. Not when we have people dying of starvation and hypothermia on the streets, people who may be gay and may be straight, regardless of thier sexual orientation, they are people, i just tend to not look at labels when it comes to debates or the importance of topics.

i would rather the money being spent on such a trivial issue as same sex partners being able to marry was used towards something more worthwhile, like making sure everyone can afford healthcare, can afford to eat and, can afford clothing and a roof over their heads, would you not agree that making sure EVERYONE, gay or straight lives is more important than gay marriage?

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"A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society."

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So you are now saying that we are fighting a losing battle? Interesting.

[quote]Lee the point isn't just marriage.. I've said that. It's equal rights!

I have agreed with you on this and i have agreed with John on this. I just dont think now is the right time to be having this debate when there are more important issues that need to be dealt with, such as the thousands of children who will die tonight because they are being abused or starving or dying of hypothermia living on the street.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Where did i say that i dont speak out and get noticed? Again i think you are reading into my replies more than you are supposed to.

I would love for their to be equal rights for EVERYONE not just same sex couples the reality of it is, i dont find that to be an important issue right now.

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What led me to believe you don't like people speaking out are quotes like this "Actually, thinking about, who said anyone could speak on my behalf in the gay community as a whole? I certainly dont remember signing my right to an opinion on things such as Gay Pride, Gay Marriage, etc etc.

Personally, it wouldnt bother me one bit if there was never another Gay Pride or debate on the Gay Marriage issue. Im fed up of being told by the pro-gay right-wing that gay marriage is something we 'all' want..."

You say you'd love for people to have equal rights, but don't think it's important now? When does equality become important? When you're in a car accident and denied treatment by the doctor in the emergency room because there was evidence you might be Gay? Right now it's legal Lee.

The reason this is a big issue is because religious people have to have someone to keep down, someone to feel better than, and right now it's Gay people. Through oppression they feel superior. Sad but true.

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"A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society."

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Originally Posted by Lee

So you are now saying that we are fighting a losing battle? Interesting.

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No Lee. You said you weren't a minority. I asked you if you were Gay because part of the legal definition of a minority is "A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society." You never did say if you're a Gay homo or not :high:

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Originally Posted by Lee

I just dont think now is the right time to be having this debate when there are more important issues that need to be dealt with, such as the thousands of children who will die tonight because they are being abused or starving or dying of hypothermia living on the street.

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Lee you can't ignore one evil for another. There are thousands of groups conquering those other arenas. Homelessness, abuse, starvation, space exploration, international diplomacy, schools, joblessness, animal rights, high crime rates, Gay rights, etc.

Thankfully, when the public debate turns one way or another, we have thousands of people focused on their area of expertise and as I showed in my previous links, there was pleanty of focus on these areas by the administration durring and after the election.

This was said:
Lee the point isn't just marriage.. I've said that. It's equal rights!

I will say it again - whomever is pushing gay marriage is putting the cart before the horse. More equality in death benifits, insurance and health care, in the form of commited partnerships agreements should come first.

Less than 40 years ago, ppl who are gay were hiding the very fact of their nature, and commiting themselves to troubling and painful hetrosexual lives, just to survive. Now we have massive Gay Pride events, same sex parents, gay adoption and fairer housing, just to name a few. In less than 40 years!

Too bad, so sad - but American society will be in a holding pattern till my generation and the one after is dead and gone, to see the changes that will have to come. I believe it will be my son's children that will look back on these times and ask ..

WFT was the Big Deal? Who Cares Who Loves Whom?

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Originally Posted by Madame0120

This was said:
Lee the point isn't just marriage.. I've said that. It's equal rights!

I will say it again - whomever is pushing gay marriage is putting the cart before the horse. More equality in death benifits, insurance and health care, in the form of commited partnerships agreements should come first.

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Yes equal rights. I agree that committed partnership agreements are a stepping stone to equal rights.

You're right we have come far in the last 40 years. We've only come this far by asserting ourselves, increasing our visibility, and breaking stereotypes by educating the public about the reality of being Gay. As far as we have come in the last years it is quite apparent that if we stop pressing forward, we will be forcibly pushed back into the closet. The Military, nonprofit organizations ( i.e. boy scouts ), and religious groups have made it very clear that they will not treat us equally, unless forced to do so legally.

As this thread indicates, our community is very diverse in opinion and approach, but we are still a community of minorities that deserves equal rights guaranteed to all Americans by our constitution. ok off the soapbox now :P