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OH SHIT! I didn't even see that partQuote:
Originally Posted by boyfunk
How can this kid be a victim though by willingly doing adult videos? Did he give a fake ID? Is he trying to get money?
On the flip side... if this company recruits in a dubious ways and help kids get fake ID's, or manipulates them... then they deserve what they get.
CHAD
Tell us more
I've been hearing, from people on the video side of the business, that there's been an ongoing dispute between Bryan (Cobra) and Brent Corrigan over a breach of contract. Bryan's asserted that "Brent" is attempting to start his own production company (with the financial assistance of some un-named investors) contrary to an agreement he had with Cobra. So it's possible this whole thing is an escalation of that dispute. Maybe Chad represents the investors? The AVN article stated Chad as saying that "Brent" wants the product destroyed out of remorse or something? This is all very confusing. But I would think that it shouldn't take long to authenticate an ID, so hopefully we'll all know something soon. Up to now, there's been no proof one way or the other, so for my part I'm cautious about jumping to conclusions.
well that's a bit much to say Chad represents the investors. Or is one himself. That'd hardly be ethical of him to present himself as the performer's attorney when it's a personal business interest that he's really after. I think it's irresponsible to introduce such a notion.
About as eloquent as could be Bri.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBionic
I concur. 100%.
:pie:
I have heard some things (not from Chad), which indicate all is not as it seems which forced the lad into seeking legal counsel.
Not for me to say as muddying waters is already at play.
And I would like to retain plausible deniability.
Just one man's opinion mind you.
:sun:
BD Bionic,
I don't believe that my comments are any more "irresponsible" than those of anyone else who posted to this thread, including your own. I'm niether defending Cobra nor vilifying the model. I'm just a bystander like everyone else here.
Unless I'm mistaken, the article on AVN seems to have been expanded since I read it earlier today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
y'all should check out this thread (the interesting part starts on page 6)
http://www.juicygoo.com/phpBB2/viewt...hp?p=5080#5080
It seems that the owner of Cobra, or someone close to him, has made the closest thing we've seen to an official statement. If you ask me, it's Nixonspeak. (confusing non-denial denial that further obfuscates the facts, for all those born after 1960).
Even more interesting is the post afterwards from JGAdmin indicating that Juicygoo had previously been threatened (apparently with bogus threats) by Cobra on the same issues.
It's ALL expanding as the day gets longer as is obvious - AVN, Bri's site and other info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Like I said earlier.. more to this than meets the eye I would expect.
And NOT all good.
:ill:
Yeah, Karma is really funny that way, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBionic
Scuttlebutt on other sites is that he wanted out of his contract, and there was a dispute. The first thing that struck me last night was that his birth certificate was in the hands of his attorney, which lead me to believe - perhaps falsely -- that he retained a lawyer to claim he was working when he was underaged.
What type of ID did Cobra have on him? Was it real?
As for Chad choosing to discuss this or not, he made a comment in the thread, which gives us free reign to ask whatever we want.
He can choose, however, to just ignore us :)
Well the scuttlebutt I've been privy to and so will throw in to the mix here is that the model was feeling threatened by intimidation tactics from the studio and so essentially felt they had no other choice but to take steps to protect themselves from future threats and intimidation by making available to the public the information they had at hand.
Certainly, the timeline involving a desired business move, that being a breach of contract, legal disputes, then this revelation for business purposes on the part of the model is a possibility.
Another timeline however would involve a desired business move, threats of legal action coming out of that, those threats getting out of hand, and the model feeling their only recourse was to protect themselves from further threats with this revelation is another one that is a possibility (cuz that's more along the lines of what I've heard).
So... there's gossip and hearsay galore here. And until things are settled either way we're stuck wondering.
"Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives..."
*grabs popcorn and thouroughly enjoys every minute.
My "love" for Cobra and M/S is pretty well documented. Excuse me while I enjoy the train wreck.
:thumbsup:
Rocky
Could I ask why the disdain for Cobra video?
Were they to successful? Did they not help others in the industry that felt they deserved a hand? Were they cut throat business people? Did everyone (but me) know they were doing possibly underage guys?
Seems to be this hatred for them that I've never seen before... or are some people just kicking them when they're down?
I dislike them based on the following:
Their model recruiting tactics
The way they treat their models (I have hired more than one Cobra model for my company and have heard nothing but horror stories, which I will not share)
Their hard-on for trying to pull my talent (one model in particular) away from my company to the point where they email him once a week!
And now the child porn. I have a major and intense hatred for producers who either falsify documents or shoot an underage model for a release that comes out after the performer's 18th birthday. Miami Studios has done that, and now it looks like Cobra has done the same thing.
I'm not a judge, I'm not a jury, I'm not convicting anybody before they are found either innocent or guilty in a court of law. But I do not have any respect for this company and watching them fuck-up makes my day. Kind of like when a certain ex-member of this board who busted my balls for NO REASON AT ALL (wasn't even a client of mine or had any connection to my business AT ALL) was busted for luring a 14 year old to his hotel room in Canada. Sucks it had to happen in the media, but that's karma coming back to bite you in the ass.
Those of you who know me know that I do not maliciously compete with any company. I do business with anyone and talk to everyone. However, certain companies have lost my respect because of their business tactics. Cobra is one of them.
Three guesses who the other one is.
Rocky
So I'm guessing we can fill in the blanks in this post?
http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=11982
Or am I assooooming too much.
Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
You, Sir, are correct!
All of the dates of production on the videos we just deleted from our wehovideo.com inventory are all before his date of birth according to his birth certificate informatin publised earlier by his attorney.
Dates of production: Bareboned Twinks: May 2003, March 2004, July 2004
Schoolboy Crush: July 2003, Every Poolboy's Dream: August 2003, February 2004
It would be interesting to know if the model gave Cobra video a fake ID that made these dates legal at the time of production. I can't imagine any video company that would knowingly produce titles and publish the production dates in the US distribution climate while being in possession of ID's for models that indicate they are too young for the videos they have been featured in. It is just too stupid of a mistake to make.
I understand the thought that these might have been shot before the model was 18 and then released after he was 18, but then if the producer did that, surely he was not dumb enough to have the model release and any contracts with the performer reflect dates prior to his 18th birthday!!
As a side note....I am not sure how this will play out...but so far, as a retailer, we are sitting in possession of dvd's we know now to, at least on the surface appearances, contain models that are underage according to the dates of productions on these titles.
We are being told by the distributor that he cannot take these videos in return, and that we have to seal them up with the text "for attorney review"
However, this leaves us sitting on inventory that we have paid for that using this procedure means we will not get refunded for these any time soon, and have to sit in possession of them until some undetermined time.
As we have not experienced this before, any thoughts on how this might play out going forward as a retailer? Will someone at some point issue a recall for these videos? Will some attorney put out a request for them as evidence? Will the studio reimburse stores and distributors for these videos?
any thoughts on the likely sequence of events in this case?
My understanding is that the proper procedure is to remove the videos from inventory and seal them, and eventually either destroy them or give them to law enforcement. I'm told that it's not legal to ship the product back to the distributor for credit.
I don't know, but I'd guess that the distributor will do something like having the retailers that own product send defaced discs (scratched with sandpaper or something) or a torn-off portion of the slipsheet back as proof of purchase for credit.
Hi Tombarr,
I noticed your carrying our video titles :D If your interested in purchasing additional titles direct and cut out the middleman, give us a call! or visit our websites at http://www.dandevideo.com
D&E Productions (you have us listed on your site as D&E Entertainment)
and I available Monday-Friday 9am-6pm EST and can be reached toll free at 1-888-870-8570 or my direct line at (305) 493-4057!!! Looking forward to hear from you.
Hey guys,
I want to carry your titles, too (once I rebuild my video store).
You have always been nothing but nice to me and it's a way for us to do business together! '
:-0
Rocky
(PS: email me y our address and I'll ship you out a copy of "Ashton's Eleven")
Hey Rocky!
Its always great to hear from you!!!! I sent you a private message.
Talk to you soon!
-David
D&E
Hi DavidQuote:
Originally Posted by allboysvideo
Having my website manager for wehovideo.com contact you now. Thanks.. we love your line..
HI Rocky,Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBoi_Rocky
We have that video under the "Miami Studios" studio listing on our website... is that correct or do we need to change that?
What are the actual release dates on these videos?
As was brought up in the 2257 stuff awhile back, what "date of production" do you use when the scenes were not all shot at the same time?
Is it possible that their listed date of production was for the scene shot first (that didn't involve Brent)?
Here they are again... and from the videos we had in stock, (3 of the 4 in question) all the dates of production are before the model's 18th birthday as specified on the Birth Certificate date published earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by tombarr
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombarr
Can you call me? 619-885-1013
Rocky
This old thread should answer your question, too. But call me anyway.
http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ead.php?t=9595
(scroll down to read my post, then JustMe's post, then more of my posts and Steve from Citiboyz, too)
Rocky
I notice that "Ashton Ryan's b-Boys" is number 8 on your list of Best Sellers...
Best Sellers
1. Bringing Up Daddy
2. Black Horses
3. Big Black Bananas 1
4. Dripping Cum Extravaganza
5. The Sum Of All Rears
6. Farm Boy Fetishes
7. Nigerian XXL Connection
8. Ashton Ryan's B-Boys
9. 3 Gays And A Girl
10. Double Military Attack
Ashton Ryan works for me now and we are partners in the new film company (Eon flms). Ashton's Eleven is his first new hardcore release in five years, and he stars in it. Unlike B-Boys, he actually performs in the action. So if a non-nude Ashton Ryan could be on your number 8 spot in a video that is 3 or 4 years old at best, then his new release and his triumphant return to porn should shoot straight to number one!
Give me a call. We should definately talk!
:-)
Rocky
I just had lunch with one of the board members of the FSC and we discussed this issue of the minor in Cobra Videos.
My understanding at this point is that the model may have presented as many as 4 different ID's to the studio during the production of the 4 titles in question. If that is true, then the studio is very much in the lurch as this would be a collossal failure of due dilligence with respect to verifying the model's age.
It was also mentioned that many in the twink video production circle familiar with Cobra Video and this model, already knew this model was underage when filming and that there were even jokes going around that circle about how he got away with the ID's that he presented.
I would be inclined to believe that Cobra video will not have much of a shelf life now with distributors or stores as they have now lost all credibility and believability.
Yikes. Bad, bad, bad - for all of us, really. :huh:
In defense of the producer, it should be up to producers to have to verify whether or not an identification is legitimate or not. Its one thing to request an ID and keep it on file; it's quite another to turn the producer into a temporary policeman or detective.
So, you're just going to assume they're guilty, huh? Have you considered getting a job with the Bush Administration's Department Of Justice?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBionic
It's really disturbing to hear that some within the industry knew about this beforehand, and made jokes about it rather than take it seriously. This affects all of us, not just Cobra... not just the twink studios. It gives us all a black eye.
The producer is the one who is specifically charged with INSURING that the ID is correct and this is one of the biggest reasons the ID issues were raised in the new version of 2257 so there is accountability for the accuracy of model's ID's. This is exactly why 2257 has sought to limit the acceptable forms of ID's for adult productions.
It is very much the producer's responsibilty to police himself, his company, all models, and all ID's presented as evidence of work eligability. (sp?)
And I am sorry, but you KNOW your models, especially one that is your star....and one that you use in repeat productions.... and when the same model presents 4 different ID's to the same studio.....it definately IS the producer's responsibility to see this and call the model on it, and demand more proof of the model's age...
Woops - I meant to say that it should NOT be up to producers to have to verify IDs... Sorry about the confusion. :dunce:Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMark
Yes, absolutely, 4 different IDs would make me suspicious.Quote:
Originally Posted by tombarr
But I maintain that a producer should not be held responsible for a fake ID that looks completely legitimate.
There's a defense that's built into the law concerning this. You, as a producer, are indeed not liable for accepting a fake ID, if you reasonably believed it to be real. After all, we don't have the ability to authenticate ID's we're presented with. But if the model turned out to be underage, then you can't legally use or sell the product you created. The Jeff Browning case in didn't result in any criminal penalties for the producer, if I'm correct, but the product was recalled and destroyed. Do you guys remember the Jeff Browning case?
http://www.gayvideodad.com/columns/c...ckey.skee.html
PS: This is not meant to diminish the argument for due diligence that Tom Barr correctly speaks of.
SUSPICIOUS? 4 Id's from the same model should make you run for the hills!Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMark
The producer IS the certifier that the model's ID is correct and correctly represents the model. That is why there is accountability built into 2257. 4 ID's from the same model....come on...it was very much his responsibility to demand to see other validating forms of ID's to verify which, if any, of the 4 represented the actual DOB for the model. Suspicious? He should have been downright disbelieving of this model's ID's as soon as the second Id was presented. At the very very least, the producer should not have used the model again as soon as the second valid appearing ID appeared without verifying which of the two presented were the actual and correct ID and DOB for the model ( if either actually were). To produce 4 titles, and accept multiple ID's from the same model without demanding further proof of ID is nothing more than blatant irresponsibilty and reckless abandonment of his responsibilities to certify that the model was over 18.
I already have... assumed they're guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMark
And I'm quite confident in my assumption.
We'd all be better off were they not guilty, and there's no doubt the model is to blame for going forward with something all the while knowing he was underage.
But after my own dealings with Cobra Video - including ongoing ones over the duration of the current situation and leading up to it - I'm left with no other choice but to confidently assume they're at fault for having committed a serious screw up here and breaking the law. And it's my personal opinion they've made this current situation inevitable through their own actions.
I do think producers should be shielded from repercussion when they're presented with what they have no option but to believe are legitimate forms of IDs by an underage performer intentionally going about misleading people about their age and misrepresenting their birth day. But I'm also of the belief that, with regards to this particular situation, Cobra screwed up big time.
I'd sure as shit like my opinion to be wrong because we'd all be better off were that the case. But over the course of the last 3 weeks receiving tons of legal threats from Cobra Video directed towards me, baseless accustations made by its owner against me, strange 4am instant messages from people claiming to be Cobra Video's lawyer (yet unable to spell his own name or the word "counsel" and making up laws to then allege I'm breaking them), Cobra or their agents trying to dig up personal information about me and post in on boards, so on and so forth, I'm left without much capacity to give them the benefit of the doubt. I've been witness to some pretty interesting behavior or their part. Irrational, even. So pardon me for being unable to expect much from them.
I think this is a case of karma coming back to bite an unscrupulous individual who knowingly and willingly disregarded teh law in the behind.
Again, these are just my personal opinions. And I'm a professional enough to know I'd rather this situation resolve itself in a way that's best for all of us. But given what I expect to be the truth here, I likewise expect the outcome of this situation to not bode well for Cobra and demonstrate they're a good part responsible for what's taken place.
And I know someone from Cobra will read this and send me threatening e-mails about it this evening as they've done before. Maybe they think I'm violating trademark laws by saying "Cobra Video" in this post. Or that I'm guilty of libel and defamation in expressing an opinion about a very public situation. Or that I'm not allowed to talk about supposedly privileged and confidential IMs received by me from the hacked AIM name of the model in the midst of a legal dispute with the client of the lawyer who hacked that AIM name to send me a message (obviously it wasn't the actual lawyer who IMed me, but whomever with Cobra's organization that did needs to find better things to do than run around online pretending to be Cobra's lawyer). Or that using PHPBB's IP-tracking functions on a discussion board I moderate to see that someone in the US Northeast posting under more than 1 name attempting to trash the individual who went by the name "Brent Corrigan" and post his real name and hometown on the discussion board I moderate somehow violates the law. Or that by editing those posts so that the model in question's real name and where he lives don't appear on the board somehow constitute a violation of their first amendment rights over which I can be sued. Or that ICANN anti-cybersquatting domain name policies somehow mean that people in a discussion board I moderate can't use the phrase "Brent Corrigan".
I can't say much to the situation that led to this Brent Corrigan fella getting cast in Cobra's films. Whether he set out to commit some elaborate deception or whether Cobra was aware of it then. Who knows. Really, on that issue, I hope the best for Cobra because that in turn is what's best for us all. If a production company gets nailed here, some punk is gonna use that as an excuse to label us all evil-doers.
But as to my personal opinions of how Cobra Video represents itself to some, including me, and the tactics they've attempted to use to try and intimidate me over the last 3 weeks? I won't miss them in the least, I am unable to expect anything but unwise behavior from them, and am unable to fathom how they could not be at least somewhat if not significantly at fault for the spot they're in right now.
So, yes. I'm going to assume they're guilty.