Quote:
Originally Posted by tombarr
wow really?
Fuck that then, what a headache that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombarr
wow really?
Fuck that then, what a headache that is.
Im pretty sure Bill mentioned in a thread a couple of weeks ago that they were planning on doing a lot more out of state shooting for that very reason.
I cant say that i blame him either, id rather have independant contractors working for me than full time 'employees'.
Regards,
Lee
There's only so much "bear" out there that's available. I never thought of HDK as having bears in their videos. They have hairy guys, but they don't look like the bears I know. The bears I know look like the guys on Bearfilms. It's the only true bear site that I know of. Those are the bears that you would find at the beer busts at 6 pm on Sundays across the US and abroad. The ones with beards, and guts, and that pride in their faces that say "I'm a bear". I just don't see that with the HDK models.
That being said, bears usually only deal with people in the "community". Maybe that's because alot of webmasters use words like "fat" "old" "ugly" and shit like that to describe them. Why would any self respecting bear or cub want to put themselves out there like that ?
My guess with HDK is that there's just not alot of bears out there wanting to participate. If the younger guys are wanting to participate, it's only natural to go that route.
i like marketing "rough men". in 1997, that was the first gay niche we worked and it was magic. guys can see pretty boys, professional models and 18 year old twinks all over the web - and on street corners, in colleges, etc. give me a niche that is hard to find and easy to define any day.
tombarr - i bet you got it. it's just too much hassle to deal with that much paperwork every time you do a shoot.
If they want to expand into the Euro market, go for it, but at the very least create a new site so it's easier to sell. If you send Euro boy traffic to HDK, they'll see rough, hairy men and leave; if you send rough, hairy man traffic they'll see boys and freak.
Michael
you are sooooo right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
the best one to answer this question would be someone from HDK.
jim
You are so right. I'll try to contact Bill again.Quote:
Originally Posted by longboardjim
Btw, let's re-focus this thread by reposting the original question. Somehow it's turned into a bear thread and that's not what this is about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
bump for Bill
Hi Guys,
It's Bill from HDK. Damn, I don't know where to start. First, I guess, thanks to Xst8Guy for the kind words.
When we started HDK we filmed what I liked!....Guys my age(keep in mind I'm now 57 and we started 8 years ago). My partner, John, was in his mid 30's at the time. After a year or so he wanted to try filming a "twink" film. I resisted for another year or so and finally gave in and we filmed BOYS CLUB. Well, much to my surprise, it became our biggest seller. It was obvious that there was a market for younger guys and our market wanted to see them. So, we began mixing it up, filming some films with older, more mature guys, and then filming some with younger guys and it seemed to work for us.
At some point, and I'm not sure when it happened, but it seemed that we started filming more films with younger guys and less films with older, more mature, "bear" type guys. From a financial standpoint, it worked but I do think that we started to lose some of our original customers who wanted to see more "rough around the edges" guys in the late 30's or 40's or even 50's.
We still film films that feature rougher.....older guys.....and still film fisting films such as Berlin Dungeon and Berlin Raunch that came out recently, but we haven't been filming the more bear type guys, or muscular guys.....like Steve Parker, Will West, etc.
We've been analyzing our film mix and we've decided to start getting more guys who are "rough around the edges", "bear" type, slightly older types and get back to shooting the type of films we shot originally.
We are still going to film some of the younger, twinky or Euro boys cause the market is there and we still need to pay the bills and many of our customers want to see those guys.....but in the future looks for more films featuring the other guys.
In fact, we filmed a fisting session today. One bear....very hariy all over, and one very rough looking dude. Michael and Xst8Guy, you're gonna love these guys. We also filmed two scenes yesterday with two guys...one extremely handsome latin guy and another guy in his late 30's and then a fuzzy little bear with a full beard and body hair all over and the fuzziest butt you ever saw. We filmed a fuck scene and a fisting scene, and the whole time we kept joking that Xst8Guy and Michael were gonna love this little bear. So, guys....we are thinking of you two.
Xst8Guy, so you know, you were correct, John and I did move back to the east coast. But we made the decision last December to come back to Palm Springs for 6 months of each year and become more involved with the actual filming. So, I think, you'll begin to see more of "your" type of films in the future.
The question that originally started this thread, was it intentional that HDK started filming more "jock type college" guys.....no, wasn't intentional, just kind of happened. But, there is a big market for it, more so than for bears. As for fisting films.....I love doing them and we're going to keep doing them, but frankly, regular "jock type college" guy films will outsell fisting films or bear films by 3 to 1.
Next week, we start running an ad in the Palm Springs Gay rags advertising for "daddies", "bears", "muscle guys" and "leather guys". The ad was placed a week ago, so you can expect to see more of those kind of guys coming soon at www.GayAdultPhotos.com and in our films at HDK.
Thanks for the opportunity to provide an explanation of where we've been and where we're going.
Bill
Basschick,Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
You are absolutely correct. Younger models are everywhere. I bet I have applications for 600 right now. Older guys...bears....damn hard to find! And, exactly what is a "bear"....seems that everyone has their own definitions. To me, a "bear" is a fit, muscular hairy guy, whether he be 30 or 60. To others, it big ol, fat guys with hair....as they say; "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
Bill
Wonderful! That's great news Bill! I can't wait to get a look at the new batch of daddy superstars you have in store for us. And I'm flattered that Michael and I are in your thoughts when you are filming.
Well I don’t know about Xstr8 but I pay for your feeds and would love to have as many young guys as possible. Its allot harder for me to market old guys, and to tell the truth would love a totally twink feed from you, or maybe even a father/son or what ever you want to call it, I need more really hard-core stuff. Your Fratmen feed is my favorite now that you have, hope you will keep working in that direction. :kelly:
That's my definition too. But I'm continually told I am wrong, lol. So I've gotten used to using the terms "hairy daddy" and "muscle bear" instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
Michael and Marc both make excellent points. We've toyed with the idea of separating our site....one for the younger guys and one for the older guys...but I just haven't figured out how to do it. We've been fairly successful, at least from an economic point, with our site, and breaking it up frankly scares the hell out of me. What we've tried to do is to feature both looks on the site right on the entrance page with rotating pictures, http://www.hotdesertknights.com with both looks. Tt seems to be working judging by our membership numbers and retention....so who knows...I guess at this point I think that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gay Porn Corner
Bill
hdkbill thanks for that awesome post. Its helped me a lot in some of my own decisions.
Some of your videos are my favorites and I hope you guys kick ass this year.
Fratmen is not a product of HDK. The feeds are from Pistol Media and they license the content from HDK, Fratmen and Raging Stallion.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Well I don’t know about all of that all I did know was it all came in the same package, but thax for the info. I really don’t know to much about all this studio thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Tom,Quote:
Originally Posted by tombarr
You sort of hit the nail on the head and it's something we've been going through for about two years now and has taken much of out time and a ton or money in legal fees. It has been resolved with us pretty much losing the battle with the California EDD, but at the same time, and I'm sort or surprised that no one has menioned this, but our original California based company, HOT DESERT KNIGHTS PRODUCTIONS, INC., no longer exists. We are now incorporated in Nevada and Delaware, with offices in both states and NONE in California, and our new name, that we now produce under, is HOT DESERT KNIGHTS, INC.
Since we are no longer a California Corporation we no longer fall under California EDD regs.
Bill
hdkbill - thanks for satisfying our rampant curiosity. it's good to hear you're going back to your roots, 'cause i think you really know your stuff and there just isn't enough "rough men" stuff out there :)
I just want good really hard-core twink content for my members :cry:
Marc,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Thanks and look for some good stuff coming from HDK.
Bill
Thanks Basschick.....Bigger is Better and Rougher is ALWAYS good!Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Bill
A simple solution would be to have 2 completely different tours with the same member's area. In fact, didn't you used to have a twink tour? It sure would make it easier to target the traffic. My mature/hairy traffic LOVES paysites with no twinks. And I've just started to build more euro guy galleries and that traffic prefers younger and smoother types.Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
And while i'm making a wish list, lol... can we get a couple of FPAs and new banners. :)
Hell, You guys are always in our thoughts. Shucks, when I was writing the ad for daddies, bears, muscle guys and leather guys, I almost called you to ask you to write it!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Bill
Good Idea. I'll "cc" Lee in our office on this and see how quickly he can get it done for you guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Bill
GO AWAY! Lol. Seriously, there has to be a million twink feeds for you to choose from. Let me have just one company that produces content that I like. PLEASE! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Well I have all of them man already :( I do have like 5 bear feeds from a few companies, but list them really low. My viewers really don’t care that much about them, but I just wanted to make everything possible available to themQuote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Max, how does your site make any money if you are giving your members dozens of different feeds. They all cost money... some of them are dirt cheap but others such as Pistol Media's are quite expensive.
Well LOL I have to make sales, its really not that profitable yet but I am keeping my head above water. To tell the truth I only have a few live feed sites to add and I will have everything. I just spend all the extra money when I get it to make my site bigger, thank god I am about done with the feed thing. Next I will try to wrap up the studio content, they start making my own videos. Really I don’t think my site will be super profitable until I am done with all the steps. As long as I can eat I will keep growing my site as much as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Must be a pretty big site then, all those members. so what site is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Xstr8 why do you think I am always bitching about traffic, and services that cock block me:angry:
i believe your site is a twink site, isn't it? if so, it's far from amazing that members would be more likely to watch twink feeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
I know, but really I would not call my site just twinks, I do offer allot more than just that. Really it focuses on guys under 30 or so in almost every niche possible. I know this might not be the best business model, but I want one of the largest sites when I am done even more than the fast cash. Later this year or next year I will begin to split my site up into like 3-5 sites but will keep them connected in a way for members.Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
BTW all I was doing was putting in my .02 for my members
Bill,
Thanks so much for such a detailed response. It's always nice to hear from a sponsor. It's good to know that you'll have some new stuff for Jim and I to buy soon. We look forward to it.
And I think Jim's idea is perfect - two tours.
And btw, I love your Euro boys, too. I'm not really into younger guys unless they're eastern European. So when I saw Pavel and Rosci and Marcin, well I built a whole site around them. It's taken me a while to figure out how to sell this niche, but it's finally happening.
Thanks again, Bill.
Cheers
Michael
Michael,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
I think Jim's idea of two tour areas is excellent. We've been talking about making changes to the tour area....don't know why we didn't think about doing it that way. We'll start working on it today. We'll also be getting some video clips, new banners and photos of both body types in the affiliates area for all afflilates.
As for the Eastern Euro boys, we'll keep them coming as well. We have lots of customers who want more, so we will keep doing them as well. You should be seeing more soon.
Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
That's pretty debatable as well, Michael. Did you see Cross Country? Can we say "stinker"??? :)
I've also been wondering about HDK's shift in focus. It's almost been like a completely different company took the name and bastardized the whole foundation upon which the original company was built. Now that Bill has posted a response, I at least know the reason why this happened (pretty much what I figured the response would be).
It's sad that the gay community is largely obsessed with youth and jocks. Magazine covers and porn movies are reflecting this more and more, and while I certainly understand the need for those in the business of selling magazines and movies to follow trends (you really can't blame them), it's still a bit disheartening to see trends controlling creativity. Not that I didn't like Backseat Butt Fuckers, Bill. The one scene, in the car in the woods, with that hot top hunk... YUMMY!I'm just sayin'... I would like to see all porn companies try and mix it up more by not focusing on one niche. Chi Chi LaRue was always good at this when Channel 1 first launched. She would use twinks with daddies all the time. Now her models have gotten more and more pretty and young, and it seems the days of Lance Gear and Zak Spears are coming to an end, at least over at Rascal.
Of course, there will always be daddy/bear content to be found. On the brick and mortar side of the business, folks like Raging Stallion and Titan are still using older, burlier men. And Raging Stallion's increasing Web presence will soon be impossible to ignore for a lot of webmasters looking to license such content from companies who really excel with that niche. It's not like the sky is falling on daddy/bear content. It's just that you might have to dig a little harder to find it these days. Hopefully, there will be another resurgence of the niche sometime soon.
:)
I agree with you Ken, Raging Stallion and Titan have great looking guys but they don't license their content for web-use... other than the feeds from Pistol Media and VOD.
I enjoyed reading this thread and must say variety is the spice of life. I must add Bill at HDK is a very savvy forthright businessman with many successes on his resume. I admire and respect that man afterall I owe much of my surprising successes in the adult entertainment business to him.