Whats the thing you fucking hate about being gay?

Just have to add:

The notion that we distance ourselves from labels like "gay" and "straight" comes from what we perceive to be society's perception of what those labels imply.

"Gay" really only means that you sleep with a member of the same sex. "Bi" means you sleep with both. "Straight" means you sleep with members of the opposite sex. It's really as simple as that. There can be crossover; everyone can have moments where they experiment, but claiming a sense of sexual identity is a very positive thing for most people, ESPECIALLY for the gay community.

It's up to you however, to define what being "gay" means to you. You just have to be proud of who you are and not let anybody else's ideas of who you are matter to you. It's about having the courage to live your life without the fear of being judged. It's about confidence. It's also about pride.

Have enough pride to be honest about who you are, but don't let anybody else box you into a corner. Be gay, but be your own kind of gay.

I don't give a shit what my str8 friends think being gay means. I know what it means to me, and THAT'S all that matters.

That applies to all areas of life, by the way. Live by your own rules, not the rules of others.

Once I figured out I wanted to be with other women - it was like someone took off the blinders and all the missing puzzle pieces fell into place. I can't say being a lesbian has things about me or my lifestyle that I hate.

What I hate is being a "second class citizen", without most of the basic human rights the straight side of the population takes for granted.

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

Gee, let's see... which of the MYRIAD of problems I have with the gay community should I start with? ;)

I've spent a LOT of time thinking about these things (I am, after all, a writer who covers social topics and issues that are important and relevant to the gay community), and these are some of the conclusions I've made.

1) MENTALLY UNBALANCED FREAKS

if you want to see mentally unbalanced freaks, try gfy. and most of the people there aren't gay. mentally unbalanced freaks are not by ANY means exclusive to being gay.

2) SHAME ABOUT SEX

shame about sex? try being a woman. a sexually assertive woman is considered by a surprisingly high number of younger men as well as most older men as a slut - on a good day. society for hundreds of years says if you are a good woman, that means you are non-sexual.

and plenty of str8 men i know have horrible issues with sex and guilt.

it's so easy for any group to decide that problems are because of one thing about them, like being gay. reality is that most humans in the same culture share some problems - look at our current government. shame is a BIG part of sex in the u.s.

3) SHAME ABOUT OURSELVES/INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA

i know black people who are ashamed of being black, jews who are ashamed of being jews. my father and his brothers were ashamed of being greek. i'd say better than half the women i know are ashamed of being women. most incest victims are ashamed. shame is not exclusive to any one group or a series of downtrodden groups.

4) UNHEALTHY BODY IMAGE/OBSESSION WITH SUPERFICIALITY

beer is mostly sold by women with bodies that are shown to look even better than those models look - and not many people look like those models to begin with. same with cars. take a look at soap opera stars - soaps are aimed at women, yet almost all the actors are as beautiful - and typical - as studios can make them be.

when i was younger, i was a trophy girlfriend. i had sugar daddies and they really didn't care about whether i was a great person or what made me tick - they cared about taking me to dinner to make their friends feel they were lesser men because their girlfriends weren't as attractive.

and honestly, when you first see someone, all you have to judge by IS how they look.

5) 5) UNHEALTHY FIXATION ON STRAIGHT GUYS & OTHER EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE MEN

gee, women aren't famous for choosing married men, are they? at this moment i know three women in LTRs with married men - all over 3 years - who are NEVER going to leave their wives. and i think soap operas have made it clear this is a situation that is frequent enough to be stereotypical.

i know plenty of gay, bi and str8 men AND women who go for the unavailable or really fucked up ones EvERY time. this is NOT a gay-only or even mostly-gay issue. it makes sense in a society so full of shame to deny or punish yourself through your relationships.

and don't forget, a gay man going for a straight man or a woman going for a str8 woman is trying to conquor as much as anything else. it's the challenge that only an unavailable person can bring that satisfies the hunter/gatherer instinct.

Just my $.02 worth. :)

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just by 2 cents - but i think these issues apply to most people i've met.

Actually it was a long post and didn't read it, but just reading everything NOT in bold I tend to agree w/ Bass.

That's just the way it is with pretty much everyone.

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

Gee, let's see... which of the MYRIAD of problems I have with the gay community should I start with? ;)
3) SHAME ABOUT OURSELVES/INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA
4) UNHEALTHY BODY IMAGE/OBSESSION WITH SUPERFICIALITY
5) UNHEALTHY FIXATION ON STRAIGHT GUYS

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I really don't understand why you tie yourself up into knots over people. Basschick is correct in that the problems you see in others who happen to be gay are universal issues. It's interesting that just because you are in a gay context, it becomes a "gay issue"

But here is a good example of one of your knots: you front the complaint "shame about ourselves / internalized homophobia" and several points later you claim "obsession with superficiality/body image". How can someone who is "self loathing" simultaneously be constantly projecting a superficial body image? especially if it is regarding hypersexualizing their ass or cock or dressing like an Andy Warhol doll and going out to dance clubs?

You know - you live in L.A. I've got a potentially shocking secret for you.... you may have to look really really hard, but that area of the country has been criticized as being a tad bit superficial. shocking news, right?

(A simple start: How about the 1990s Paul Mazursky movie Scenes from a Mall? They weren't in the Mall of America in Minnesota... they were in Beverly Hills)

It's as if you moved Las Vegas and became outraged at all the gambling.

And if I might ask, who are you to judge that lusting after straight guys is "unhealthy" ? Once again, break yourself out of GayWorld. People *constantly* crave things they cannot have. It makes them want it more. It's not a gay thing. Volumes of classic literature covers this subject: Sometimes this is waged with reckless abandon, as Captain Ahab did in Moby Dick.... while others get a better handle on distinguishing their goals, wants and needs.

I don't mean to make any of this any kind of personal attack. I just wanted to comment on some of these things you just laid right on out. I guess I am very sensitive to seeing Christian religious conservatives list out problems and issues they see with people, often beginning their sentences with words like "unhealthy" or "shame" .....

I guess we have no problem with people moralizing, they just have to happen to arbitrarily agree with our own particular brand.

-Steve

Well I for one think XXXWriterDude made some good points, but this “4) UNHEALTHY BODY” well I do not know what gay guys you know, but most do not take care of themselves but this IMAGE/OBSESSION WITH SUPERFICIALITY is a good point I see it every day gay people that are completely out of shape and much older thinking they are attractive to people they really have nothing in common with. I know str8 people do this too, but gay people are by far worse about this stuff. I can not even take a fucking piss in a gay club with out all kinds of problems

And this UNHEALTHY FIXATION ON STRAIGHT GUYS well I can really see that. To tell the truth I would much rather date a str8 or almost totally str8 guy. I guess it could be called unhealthy in a way in another it is not. I just fit in better with str8 or really srt8 acting guys, and are much more attractive to them before I am even sure they are gay or not. I am really not into gender issues, sex flakes, or alot of the “gay community” stuff that people talk about like its something its not.

Maxpower, I think the word you are looking for is "attracted". Your use of the word "attractive" in your post changes your point entirely and I don't think it was your intention.

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Originally Posted by desslock

I really don't understand why you tie yourself up into knots over people. Basschick is correct in that the problems you see in others who happen to be gay are universal issues. It's interesting that just because you are in a gay context, it becomes a "gay issue"

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I disagree, Steve. Most of this stuff I got from talking to psychologists who specialize in the gay community for several stories I did on sexual behavior in the gay community. They explicitly brought up many of these issuse as being SPECIFIC to the gay community, and I couldn't agree with them more. I had made many similar observations even before talking with them, based on my own experiences. Before I decided to become a writer, I was studying to become a psychologist, and I've always been fascinated with how certain societal factors influence people's behavior.

It may be true that in some ways these issues may apply to all other people, but they are a little more prevalent in the gay community--at least from what I can see--and I totally stand by my post.

KK

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Originally Posted by desslock

But here is a good example of one of your knots: you front the complaint "shame about ourselves / internalized homophobia" and several points later you claim "obsession with superficiality/body image". How can someone who is "self loathing" simultaneously be constantly projecting a superficial body image? especially if it is regarding hypersexualizing their ass or cock or dressing like an Andy Warhol doll and going out to dance clubs?

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Easy. The exact same way that someone who is terribly insecure can come off as aggressively arrogant. A lot of guys get into the gym and pump up b/cuz they feel insecure about their bodies/have shame about their bodies. They pump up and pump up and pump up and still they say they don't look "good enough," but their idea of "good enough" is a superficial image of attractiveness that has been shoved down their throats by not just the media at large, but also the GAY media and the gay community which has come to accept those standards, which as far as I'm concerned, makes this a problem that is in many ways--at least the ones that matter--specific to being gay.

Trust me; I'm not tied up in knots about this. And while it may come across that many of these issues perplex and frustrate me, I have little room in my life for judgment. There's a big difference between being aware of and pointing out problems and judging those who have them. To me, it's simply unfortunate that so many of these issues to pervade our community. Obviously, that's judgment of a certain kind--as there can be no such thing as a life that is completely without judgment--but not in the same way that others dismiss people as being assholes or question their morals and ethics.

If a gay guy wants to chase after str8 men, that works for me. I think it's unfortunate, but I don't think the guy is an asshole for doing it.

I'm so glad I'm just a guy.

having to put up with whiney gay people who peg the entire gay community into a little box so they can complain about how much they hate gay people annoys me more than anything.

hearing gay people say things to me like "you and your boyfriend are monogamous? I've never heard of that" or "Well, you know at the baths.."

hearing people say "Gay people are all so flighty" as if straight people are all totally grounded.

People who blame their sexual orientation for every one of their own failings.

argh.

It's like that line in Broken Hearts Club, LA is a bunch of 10's looking for an 11.

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Originally Posted by DonMike

Maxpower, I think the word you are looking for is "attracted". Your use of the word "attractive" in your post changes your point entirely and I don't think it was your intention.

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Yes you are very right man sorry, only wrote that when I woke up after about 4 hours of sleep to talk to some people I am working with then went back to bed, so I am sure it was a bit incoherent

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Originally Posted by Jasun

I'm so glad I'm just a guy.

having to put up with whiney gay people who peg the entire gay community into a little box so they can complain about how much they hate gay people annoys me more than anything.

hearing gay people say things to me like "you and your boyfriend are monogamous? I've never heard of that" or "Well, you know at the baths.."

hearing people say "Gay people are all so flighty" as if straight people are all totally grounded.

People who blame their sexual orientation for every one of their own failings.

argh.

---

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I happen to LOVE gay people. But I'm also aware of issues that plague our community, as I am about issues that plague the world at large.

You can't box any one community into stereotypes, but there ARE trends of behavior that emerge in each of those communities. And those trends can be frustrating to some. Others don't care so much; they just ignore them and go on with life.

As I said before, it's all about being your own kind of gay person, whatever that means to you, and whatever works for you best. It doesn't matter what I or anything else thinks. You have to live your life the way that makes you happiest. All the power to you or anyone else who does this. :)

since every one of your points could STRONGLY be applied to almost every woman i know, i think perhaps aiming these things toward gay men is a way of making certain gay men feel more special, more exclusive. suddenly problems like MOST men, gay bi or str8. being very superficial is a gay issue.

maybe the psychologists you talk to see that problem in gay men because they work with gay men. i see those problems on a very regular basis in large groups of people - maybe a large part of my life isn't focused on any one group.

it scares me how we as a people tend to take a wide-spread issue or problem and assign it to one group of people. it's a great way to separate that one group in our minds from being part of everyone else and isolating that group, making them apart from everyone else.

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

I disagree, Steve. Most of this stuff I got from talking to psychologists who specialize in the gay community for several stories I did on sexual behavior in the gay community. They explicitly brought up many of these issuse as being SPECIFIC to the gay community, and I couldn't agree with them more. I had made many similar observations even before talking with them, based on my own experiences. Before I decided to become a writer, I was studying to become a psychologist, and I've always been fascinated with how certain societal factors influence people's behavior.

It may be true that in some ways these issues may apply to all other people, but they are a little more prevalent in the gay community--at least from what I can see--and I totally stand by my post.

KK

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Again, the L.A. people take over a thread with issues that are almost exclusive to them. The rest of America is not L.A. In fact, LA really is it's own country. ;)

I exaggerate for effect. But seriously, you folks put so much focus on body image issues, status, etc, that most non-L.A. people can't relate. I'm not denying that gay culture prizes fit bodies. But for some reason, L.A. seems to put EXTRA emphasis on it. Instead of spraying pestisides from helicopters to kill med-flys... they should spray Xanax on all of you! :honest:

I think it's really important to clarify something here. All I know is that my straight brother and I grew up in the same household with the same parents and in the same town. And he turned out one way, and I turned out another. I had tons of insecurity, shame, guilt, self-loathing and other issues haunting me well into my adulthood, while he had NONE of those same issues. Any psychologist who has studied human behavior will tell you that my issues come as a direct result of my experiences being oppressed as a GAY man. If I hadn't been gay, I may have turned out much like my brother, who--while he has his own set of issues as a result of growing up in an abusive household--is a pretty well-adjusted guy thanks to being straight.

I'm not saying these issues are EXCLUSIVE to our community. Women have body issues and shame about sex, sure. But so do MANY MANY MANY gay men, whose insecurities manifest themselves in a number of behavioral patterns that have been recognized and validated by many experts on both social behavior and psychology. I'm not making this shit up. It's been widely reported in major psychology journals. To me, this makes any of those issues "gay issues" b/cuz they are intrinsically linked to one's experiences as a gay man--regardless of who else might experience similar problems.

My point in my post was not to complain about how much I hate the gay community. Whatever. Again, for emphasis: WHATEVER. But because somebody explicitly ASKED what we hated about being gay, I figured I would offer up my viewpoints based on MY experiences as, yes, a GAY MAN.

Man, what I wouldn't give to live in a world where sharing one's honest opinion wasn't immediate grounds for being dismissed.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Again, the L.A. people take over a thread with issues that are almost exclusive to them. The rest of America is not L.A. In fact, LA really is it's own country. ;)

I exaggerate for effect. But seriously, you folks put so much focus on body image issues, status, etc, that most non-L.A. people can't relate. I'm not denying that gay culture prizes fit bodies. But for some reason, L.A. seems to put EXTRA emphasis on it. Instead of spraying pestisides from helicopters to kill med-flys... they should spray Xanax on all of you! :honest:

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You're right on this. Perhaps I should have said "the gay community in Los Angeles." Though actually it seems to be pervading gay cultures in most major cities. My gay friends in New York complain of very similar frustrations.

people buy cars and beer and fishing reels because a hot chick or guy is on the ad. major national magazines keep model-quality people on the covers to help sell them anywhere but in l.a. singers who are fat are forced to consider using a model to represent them in new york.

and fat people EVERYWHERE are shamed - in newspapers, magazines, tv - you name it.

nope, i think plenty of superficiality and shame happen outside of our little fishbowl here. the only reason l.a. seems more superficial is because we have the actors and models all right here - and if a model or actor loses their looks, they lose their job. of course they're superficial - it's not only a fear of rejection; it's a realistic fear of losing EVERYTHING with their looks.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Again, the L.A. people take over a thread with issues that are almost exclusive to them. The rest of America is not L.A. In fact, LA really is it's own country. ;)

I exaggerate for effect. But seriously, you folks put so much focus on body image issues, status, etc, that most non-L.A. people can't relate. I'm not denying that gay culture prizes fit bodies. But for some reason, L.A. seems to put EXTRA emphasis on it. Instead of spraying pestisides from helicopters to kill med-flys... they should spray Xanax on all of you! :honest:

---

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Originally Posted by basschick

people buy cars and beer and fishing reels because a hot chick or guy is on the ad. major national magazines keep model-quality people on the covers to help sell them anywhere but in l.a. singers who are fat are forced to consider using a model to represent them in new york.

and fat people EVERYWHERE are shamed - in newspapers, magazines, tv - you name it.

nope, i think plenty of superficiality and shame happen outside of our little fishbowl here. the only reason l.a. seems more superficial is because we have the actors and models all right here - and if a model or actor loses their looks, they lose their job. of course they're superficial - it's not only a fear of rejection; it's a realistic fear of losing EVERYTHING with their looks.

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Oooooh, that's a good point, Patti. Superficiality and shame are widespread problems. :)

Shame about body image is most definitely a larger problem, one that has only recently begun to really affect heterosexual men. To that I say, "It's about frickin' time you had to suffer too!" :)

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Originally Posted by basschick

and fat people EVERYWHERE are shamed - in newspapers, magazines, tv - you name it.

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And where does the rest of America get it's views on body issues? L.A. perhaps? After all, that's where Hollywood is. ;)

Btw, I love L.A. I'm just jealous because I can't afford to live there.

We can not blame the media for peoples obsession with beauty even young baby’s respond better too better looking people its just part of our make-up.

Now for people that can not stand back and see their are some EVER exasperated problems in the gay community are self delusional a bit. I would say 85% of everything about the gay community has to do with sex another 10% has to do with the ramifications of said sex and only the last 5% has to do with anything else. Fetishism is ramped in the gay community, I would say about 10x of the str8 community, now I am not saying gay people are child molesters or anything but their is a whole lot of dysfunction around here that many of us can not see or just try to justify for one reason or another.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Btw, I love L.A. I'm just jealous because I can't afford to live there.

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LOL! It's cheaper than New York or San Francisco! :)

You can actually live in L.A. pretty cheaply. Or relatively cheaply. Though I must confess, my one-bedroom apartment here is double what it cost me to live in a three bedroom duplex back in Pennsylvania...

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Btw, I love L.A. I'm just jealous because I can't afford to live there.

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Ya well its way over rated, Dallas is cool I would be happy :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxpower

We can not blame the media for peoples obsession with beauty even young baby’s respond better too better looking people its just part of our make-up.

Now for people that can not stand back and see their are some EVER exasperated problems in the gay community are self delusional a bit. I would say 85% of everything about the gay community has to do with sex another 10% has to do with the ramifications of said sex and only the last 5% has to do with anything else. Fetishism is ramped in the gay community, I would say about 10x of the str8 community, now I am not saying gay people are child molesters or anything but their is a whole lot of dysfunction around here that many of us can not see or just try to justify for one reason or another.

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Exactly! Wow, Max, I'm agreeing with you. :)

I do, however, think there is a certain amount of blame you can pinpoint on the media for perpetuating certain ideas of conventional beauty and superficiality, but it must be said that the public at large supports that same superficiality. It's the "chicken or the egg" debate all over again. Which comes first?

So much of our behavior gets swept under the carpet and justified in one way or another that it never gets properly analyzed and understood. We shrug it off by saying, "That's just how I am, so why question it?"

I'm pretty analytical, but I'm also pretty evolved. I understand just about every thought I have and why I have them, and I can pretty much pinpoint exactly where my own unique fetishes come from (older guys fill my "father hunger" issues, having sex in cars comes from my very first sexual experience with another man in the front seat of my Ford EXP, etc.). Which makes it easier for me to choose which ones I think are healthiest for me to partake in and which ones are not good for my self-esteem and/or health.

Again, I come from a background in psychology (I studied it intensively for two years before I decided to make the move into theater and then writing--three professions that are, in fact, intrinsically linked by many common threads, the biggest one being the documentation of human behavior), so I'm always taking shit apart and attempting to analyze it and understand it. I know that comes from a desire on my part to understand who I am as a person and what makes me who I am so that I can live the most informed, happy life that I can.

Not for everyone, I acknowledge, and it is hard for me sometimes to just "go with the flow" and not OVERthink things. But in the long run, I just think it's better for ME if I can account for myself at all times. And, for the most part, I can. That doesn't make me better, and I certainly don't have a corner market on what's right or wrong, but I can speak from a well-informed opinion just the same.

Well we all know the egg came first with out the small mutation we would not have the chicken, but be careful XXXWriterDude if you are agreeing with me you must be on really shaky ground :honest:

I will quote a movie now it that is ok before the attacks start
“Only a Sith believes in absolutes”

http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news...venge_sith.jpg

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

But I'm also aware of issues that plague our community, as I am about issues that plague the world at large.

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I feel that saying a community of people being "plagued" by something labels our community as defective and unable to adapt or cope.

Has it ever occurred to you that people who enter certain subsets of the Gay community (i.e. West Hollywood Gay clubbing community) and find it repulsive don't participate in that part of the community?

Have you ever set your sites on the Los Angeles Gay volunteering community to weed out all their imperfections?

How about the Los Angeles Gay seniors community? The Los Angeles Gay parents community? How bout the Gay couples groups?

I have participated in those communities; do you participate in those communities? I suspect you don't or your insight would go to a depth I haven't seen in your posts on this topic yet. I'm no fan of L.A. as a city but our Gay community there, and in So Cal in general, is more developed then any I've seen to date anywhere in the world.

The Gay community is not defective.

We're all people trying to find our way in life, each on our own path, just like every human being on this planet. If you label us as plagued then that's what you'll project in your writings and general outlook to others, as you have here. just my .00002cents

Wanna talk developed...that is West Hollywood here in L.A.

These people have it together. We moved from Miami and have not looked back (except to say how great it is here)!

Lee

I just spent an hour reading this thread... fascinating stuff. My own take on this is that being gay, like being a woman, Jewish, or any other "opressed minority" you're born into, carries some of those intrinsic complexes that KK explained so well. I see no contradiction between those being inherent problems for many gay people, and them being prevalent among women or any other minority, like basschick pointed out so well.

Here's an interesting point. I'm seeing similar patterns of insecurity/self-hate and other complexes with Jewish people in America that I met online, in regards to them being Jewish. I feel free of those complexes, being Jewish is practically a non-issue for me, since I grew up in Israel (still live here) and being Jewish means the opposite of an opressed minority here.

I once asked my husband how would he feel if one of our sons was to tell us he's gay (plenty of time for that lol, they are only 2 and 4 ;)). I was surprised to hear that it would make him sad, but he explained that being gay means belonging to a minority that still suffers from prejudice and harassment. He said that for their own happiness and well-being, he prefers to have male, Jewish (again, not a minority here), heterosexual children. It will simply make life a whole lot easier for them.

My point being that belonging to an opressed minority has its toll. I know that as a woman. I'm sure the same is true of being gay. It also has its merits, IMHO, making you a more sensitive and open minded person all around, but comes with a price tag attached.

I think I hate the view of others and society in general about gays and just not being accepted. I think if society was more accepting more people would come out and being gay would be way more accepted. Though it is slowly getting there.

I also just hate the drama that come from gay guys more. This is probably why 85% of my friends are straight. The gay ones are just too flaky, too much drama or cause problems with my boyfriend and myself.

Mark

damn this thread is way too long to read all of now, I'll save it for a rainy day. :P

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Actually there is another term that may apply to you. As far as the sleeping part, I wish I was Asian. There are some lucky boys in Thailand....

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LOL, thanks Lloyd, that's really sweet. :kiss:

I just read (95%) of this thread and the one thing I didn't see mentioned...

Is dealing with parents who can't accept a gay child...

Now my parents could have reacted much worse when I came out, so in some regard I'm not complaining much. But they also don't go around and tell people that I'm in a 10 year relationship with a man. They are still embarrassed to tell their friends they have a gay son. And to make matters even worse, my only other sibling, a younger sister... is a lesbian herself. So my parents have two kids, both gay... They funny part is, my dad seems less concerned about it, its my mother who is the one that gets all uptight when it comes to telling others. I mean, she's accepted my partner like a family member. She gives him birthday and Christmas gifts, always asks about him when we talk, and gets along with him fine. Its just that she won't open up and tell her friends. I'm sure if my partner had tits and a pussy, she's brag about her all the time!

My parents were cool when I came out to them, as well as when two cousins and a cousine came out :D

Figure that - 50% of all children in a family-bunch being homosexual :D


DEVELISH

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I feel that saying a community of people being "plagued" by something labels our community as defective and unable to adapt or cope.

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I think in many ways, that is very accurate. I don't know that our community HAS figured out a successful way to cope with a lot of these problems, as they are still ongoing.

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Has it ever occurred to you that people who enter certain subsets of the Gay community (i.e. West Hollywood Gay clubbing community) and find it repulsive don't participate in that part of the community?

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Yes, but I'm not talking about THOSE people, Squirt. Everyone knows there are exceptions. As far as I'm concerned, it's a given that there are many people in the community who do not represent the things I mention. And it should be a given to anyone else reading this post as well. But speaking in generalities makes for better copy. I mean ... duh. :)

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Have you ever set your sites on the Los Angeles Gay volunteering community to weed out all their imperfections?

How about the Los Angeles Gay seniors community? The Los Angeles Gay parents community? How bout the Gay couples groups?

I have participated in those communities; do you participate in those communities? I suspect you don't or your insight would go to a depth I haven't seen in your posts on this topic yet.

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As a matter of fact, I'm in training at the GALC right now to be an HIV counselor. After being part of an HIV-prevention study last year, I felt a need to be more connected to the community and to find ways that I could help "weed out," as you say, the problems that I see being so prevalent.

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I'm no fan of L.A. as a city but our Gay community there, and in So Cal in general, is more developed then any I've seen to date anywhere in the world.

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The same gay community that chose Paris Hilton -- the very epitome of vacuousness and superficiality -- to be the spokesperson for L.A. gays? You and I see very different gay communities in L.A. then.

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The Gay community is not defective.

We're all people trying to find our way in life, each on our own path, just like every human being on this planet. If you label us as plagued then that's what you'll project in your writings and general outlook to others, as you have here. just my .00002cents

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That's actually the intent, Squirt. It is my intention to get people thinking about things that have, for a long time, gone unchecked in our community. I talk to a lot of people in the gay community in L.A. -- I'm in the thick of things, after all, and I'm always out and about meeting people -- and I bring up a lot of these topics, and a lot of times people simply don't want to think about them, much less discuss them. I think too many of us are living with blinders on and not looking at how we can improve not only ourselves, but the community in general.

I think there are MANY wonderful traits and qualities about the gay community, and I'm very happy to be a part of it, but I also see a lot of stuff that I think is unfortunate, and that is what I am focusing on. Social change only comes about by focusing on the things that need changing.

I came of age in college, where I was one of three or four men enrolled in the women's studies program, and I was totally woken up to a bevvy of issues that plague not only women, but the gay community as well, and part of me has always seen myself as an activist for social change, but one who uses his writing as his platform instead of rallies and protests.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from at least. :)

I told you XXXWriterDude that you where on shaky ground man, I could see that coming. I can get away with saying crap like that cuzz I do not really have to work with these guys “like getting interviews” and they expect that stuff from me. Your arguments where very sound and based in psychology mostly, but they do not want to hear that man. ;)

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I told you XXXWriterDude that you where on shaky ground man, I could see that coming. I can get away with saying crap like that cuzz I do not really have to work with these guys “like getting interviews” and they expect that stuff from me. Your arguments where very sound and based in psychology mostly, but they do not want to hear that man. ;)

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No worries, Max. I'm QUITE used to being viewed as a troublemaker just trying to stir things up, and being the object of attacks b/cuz I'm not afraid to speak my mind and be vocal. I'm in no way a martyr or anything like that (I leave that to the TRUE pioneers who have really put themselves in the thick of things and fought tooth and nail for social change), but I do see myself as someone with a forum for getting people to think, and I realize that people will always resent and distrust those who encourage them to think outside the box. It's frustrating, b/cuz people often react so vehemently to some of the things I say, but oh well... I guess it just comes with the territory. I make no apologies for my viewpoints, or for what I stand for.

Well then I applaud you man, its much harder to really express your true view point rather than just spinning a bunch of PR/PC crap. I could play the PR game all day but it would make me nothing but a 2 faced liar, maybe I would make a few more bucks, but if people do not like me at least its really me they do not like. :develish:

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Well then I applaud you man, its much harder to really express your true view point rather than just spinning a bunch of PR/PC crap. I could play the PR game all day but it would make me nothing but a 2 faced liar, maybe I would make a few more bucks, but if people do not like me at least its really me they do not like. :develish:

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Don't applaud me, man. I'm not any of the drag queens who fought at Stonewall or anyone who's risked their lives for the advancement of gay rights. I'm just someone with my own little vision to change the world, and I do hope that I am able to do some good one day.

Anyone who's met me off this site knows that I am actually nothing like how I come off in my posts. I'm incredibly pleasant, cordial and polite, and most of all friendly. It's only when I sit down in front of a keyboard that I switch into writer mode and get all theoretical and shit. But hey, that's who I am: I'm a writer. I write. :)

Well I am probably a bit wilder in real life I can get ya throw out of a club trust me, but will be a night you will remember. I am a Webmaster I bullshit that’s what I do :joker: