Amateur Straight Guys/Digital Ventures Stopped Paying Affiliates?

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Originally Posted by ramp

Guys -

I recently moved from AZ, after living there all of my adult life and most of my childhood.

One of the reasons I left is because a certain recreational substance, commonly cooked-up from over the counter cold medicines, is running rampant, and has been for half a decade.

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We work with models from all over the US and Canada, and as far as I know, crystal meth is rampant almost everywhere. We've had models in Kentucky, Iowa, Alabama, Ohio, and pretty much all the more populated states talking about how it's overtaking the gay scene in all of those places, so I don't think that Arizona has any special claims to its presence.

Anyone who's been to an industry convention knows that a significant portion of webmasters, program and studio owners and others in our industry are pretty open about their use of various addictive recreational drugs -- including people who have some very large programs or sites -- so I don't think we can blame their downfall on drug use or living in Arizona, just on stupidity. (I don't have any knowledge at all of what's happening behind the scenes, so my comments are general.)

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

We work with models from all over the US and Canada, and as far as I know, crystal meth is rampant almost everywhere. We've had models in Kentucky, Iowa, Alabama, Ohio, and pretty much all the more populated states talking about how it's overtaking the gay scene in all of those places, so I don't think that Arizona has any special claims to its presence.

Anyone who's been to an industry convention knows that a significant portion of webmasters, program and studio owners and others in our industry are pretty open about their use of various addictive recreational drugs -- including people who have some very large programs or sites -- so I don't think we can blame their downfall on drug use or living in Arizona, just on stupidity. (I don't have any knowledge at all of what's happening behind the scenes, so my comments are general.)

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I couldn't agree more Chip there is alot of drug use. It also seems like the US is more concerned about gambling and porn while kids and adults are losing their lives because of this drug and others including alcohol. When I was paralyzed when I was 12 over 90% of the people in my group were paralyzed because of a drunk driver or drinking and driving themselves. Not sure if it is any better now but it seems the people who do get a dui are still on the road. I think if the government was more concerned on things that really matter maybe this problem would not be getting out of control.

Mark

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Originally Posted by ramp

Please note, this is not an accusation and I am not trying to start any rumors. I don't have any first-hand information. I don't know any of the parties personally.

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That's exactly what you're doing. If you have no first-hand information, why bother drawing the lines? Talk about kicking people when they're down.

I'm owed money like a lot of other people and I'm not happy about it, but good lord, put your brains back in your head before you start to type.

Michael

looks like the two dorks got laid and got paid

and when money was plenty pulled the plug and decided to go it alone

good for Bananaguide not rolling over

It's no secret that I have issues with Bananaguide after one of their reps had me make a bunch of time consuming changes to my site about a year ago to have my site listed, only to drop the ball. Then Trevors emails in June 2005 to make amends and make promises, that he ended up not keeping... as I never heard from him again. I'm sure they are nice people but it seems almost karmic that they allege to now be the victims of someone not meeting deadlines or keeping promises.

However it sucks that they, along with the rest of us, are owed money. The Scott and Vern I knew did not do business this way. They neglected to return my calls as well (non affiliate related) so I know they're dealing with a lot right now. I still have faith they'll make it all good at some point, if they don't sell the business.

Dzinerbear / Michael

Put *your* brains back in *your* head before you reply to posts. Pay attention, and read the posts you reply to FULLY before you let your fingers loose on your keyboard.

This will save you embarrassment.

I did not make any accusations, and I fully qualified my comment.


Rather than apply a flame to your deserving comment, I'll ask a question...

What do YOU think happened to this "perfect" situation to cause this default?


Also, don't you feel kind of stupid, trying to turn this around on me?

" And it could happen to any of us, should we suffer that same detachment.
So, guys, be careful. Always keep one foot on the dock while climbing into the speedboat...
"

Peace and Love,
Ray

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Originally Posted by ramp

Dzinerbear / Michael

Put *your* brains back in *your* head before you reply to posts. Pay attention, and read the posts you reply to FULLY before you let your fingers loose on your keyboard.

This will save you embarrassment.

(balance snipped)

Peace and Love,
Ray

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Ray,

You have 6 posts to the GWW community. Michael has over 4,000.

As far as I know, you've contributed little to this community thus far. Michael, on the other hand, has been one of the most consistently helpful, generous, and insightful contributors here, as well as being a voice of reason recognized and respected by pretty much all of the posters (and probably many of the lurkers) here.

I think if anyone is (or should be) embarrassed as a result of posts made within this thread, it would be you.

I don't know where else you've participated in online communities, but this method of introducing yourself to the GWW community isn't exactly going to be found in Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People", nor is it likely to be an effective way of endearing yourself to the GWW community.

Verbum sap sat.

I have to agree

Yes these guys haven't paid us. Some say they've made deadlines they haven't kept.

That is a FAR cry from this pseudo accusation of meth addiction. Let's keep perspective here.

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

That's exactly what you're doing. If you have no first-hand information, why bother drawing the lines? Talk about kicking people when they're down.

I'm owed money like a lot of other people and I'm not happy about it, but good lord, put your brains back in your head before you start to type.

Michael

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Ya know, Arizona ranks 6th in the nation for reported UFO sightings.

So... maybe Doug and Jay were abducted by aliens.

Or their affiliate manager was.

So long as we're throwing out theories based on random bits of Arizona trivia.

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Originally Posted by ramp

What do YOU think happened to this "perfect" situation to cause this default? Also, don't you feel kind of stupid, trying to turn this around on me? " And it could happen to any of us, should we suffer that same detachment. So, guys, be careful. Always keep one foot on the dock while climbing into the speedboat..."Peace and Love,Ray

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I don't know what happened in this situation. But just because someone isn't paying their affiliates and the IRS doesn't mean they've fallen into a pit of meth use.

And I'm not embarrassed in the least, not do I feel stupid. I know you qualified your post, and I STILL think it's irresponsible.

Let me give you another example that illustrates what you've done here with your post. Let's say there's a post on GWW about the FBI investigating some kiddie porn ring in Arizona, and let's say I just happen to be in Arizona and see you walking down the street with a 12-year old boy. (I know Arizona is a big place and has many streets, but indulge me.) So, I coming running back here and I post in the Arizona kiddie porn thread, "I'm not making any accusations, and I have no real information, but I just saw Ramp walking down the street with a 12-year-old boy."

That wouldn't be a very fair implication to make concerning you, of course, I wasn't making an implication, I was just thinking out loud.

Okay, so let me think out loud a little here:

I wonder who Ramp is?

Ramp has had six posts on this board, all of them have been in a post regarding Amateur Straight Guys not paying their affiliates.

Do you think Ramp is an ex-employee of ASG who is pissed off? I'm not saying he is, I'm just wondering.

For the record, I think it's despicable that ASG hasn't paid or communicated with webmasters. People have sent them traffic in good faith and paying those webmasters should have been their highest priority. At the end of the day, why they are in arrears doesn't make a bit of difference, unless it involves the cheque signer being in a coma for the last nine months.

Cheers
Michael

Michael -

I'd like to point out that we've mistaken speculation for accusation here. It's an easy-to-cross line, although I must say "we" crossed it rather eagerly.

But I'm glad that my original post kicked off a few decent responses, that's what I had intended it to do.

I never accussed or implied anyone at ASG had a substance abuse problem. I mentioned meth only because I've seen it destroy a number of lives.

And because, as several folks have since pointed out, drug abuse is rife in this industry.

Other things can mess people up, too. Gambling addiction. Eating disorders. Surgical addiction. Sexual addiction.

The list of things that can screw a person's life up is longer than the list of things which are beneficial.

The post that started this whole donnybrook ended with

"So, guys, be careful. Always keep one foot on the dock while climbing into the speedboat..."

If that made even one person think twice, then getting flamed was worth it.

The fact is, there are enough challenges in this business - we don't need to add more.



As far as being an ex-employee of ASG, thankfully I have no ties with them beyond promoting them for a short period of time earlier this year. It was a nice converting program which theoretically should have been profitable.

In one respect, I'm glad it's offline at the moment. Getting email notices of rebills has been a huge, purple boil on my inbox for months.



Regarding kiddie porn, 12 year old boys, and this from post 16999:

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So, I coming running back here and I post in the Arizona kiddie porn thread, "I'm not making any accusations, and I have no real information, but I just saw Ramp walking down the street with a 12-year-old boy."

That wouldn't be a very fair implication to make concerning you, of course, I wasn't making an implication, I was just thinking out loud.
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I'd like to clarify here that I do not hang around with 12 year old boys. I did at one time - when I was about that age, too.

That said, thinking out loud is what your statement amounts to, and it really isn't an implication.

Had you actually seen this, you would simply be reporting what you saw.

If this theoretical kid had gone missing shortly after your sighting and you were to add "I didn't see it happen, but I wonder if it was Ramp who dragged him into that alley," it would be speculation.

However, when you make this statement out of the clear blue, lacking any event to tie it to, it can't be considered speculation. It's... something else.



Forgive the cliche... At some point we should probably decide to bury the hatchet, shake hands, come out smiling.

Elections are right around the corner, so we can get our dose of mud-slinging by watchinig campaign coverage. Politicians are much better at name calling, and they get paid for it. We've been doing it for free.


Ciao 4 Now,
Ray

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Originally Posted by ramp

In one respect, I'm glad it's offline at the moment. Getting email notices of rebills has been a huge, purple boil on my inbox for months.

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ASG isn't offline. And they continue to buy Google Adwords which I think is abhorrent. Instead they could be paying some affiliates with that money. Does anyone know if they continue to add new content? If so, maybe they should stop paying models until they complete their obligations to affiliates.

This is another reason why I am hesitant to use sponsors that self-pay. I know Epoch and CCbill will actually send what I'm owed.

Well I don't think it'd be fair to stop paying models, either. They're not at fault for any of this and so shouldn't suffer. But really, when something like this comes up, no one other than those directly responsible should suffer any burden. That'd be ideal. I'd imagine the logistics of that are easier said than done, though.

All in all, an unfortunate situation with countless points throughout where something could have been handled differently.

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Originally Posted by ramp

But I'm glad that my original post kicked off a few decent responses, that's what I had intended it to do.

I never accussed or implied anyone at ASG had a substance abuse problem. I mentioned meth only because I've seen it destroy a number of lives.

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Ramp,

I have to agree with some of the others. Your post about crystal meth was terribly inappropriate. There was absolutely no need to even bring it up, except to begin a rumor about a company you know very little about except that they haven't paid you. It's basically slander, even though you "qualify" the statement by saying that you're "not accusing" them of anything. Regardless of the intention behind your post, it was incredibly self-serving and irresponsible of you to post a message about crystal meth addiction in connection with ASG's financial woes, inexplicably linking the two together--even if that wasn't your intention.

For you not to realize that surprises me.

Ken

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

Well I don't think it'd be fair to stop paying models, either.

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I didn't mean to suggest that they don't pay models for work they've done. Maybe they just need to stop shooting new content. Perhaps they could recycle old content until everyone is paid. And discontinue all of their paid advertising too.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

ASG isn't offline. And they continue to buy Google Adwords which I think is abhorrent. Instead they could be paying some affiliates with that money. Does anyone know if they continue to add new content? If so, maybe they should stop paying models until they complete their obligations to affiliates.

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I totally agree with you: until all webmasters/affiliates are paid, all production should cease! That does not mean they should negate on earnings owed to models - I'm (and am sure you are, also) saying no more shoots; purchasing content; advertising and et cetera!

I do hope peeps are smart enough to pull all marketing material, until this "little issue" is properly dealt with.

Oh, BTp.s.: th@'s a cute pic of you, and I like the green outfit!

Folks,

Xstr8guy -

In an earlier post, I mentioned being glad about ASG's affiliate program, not the actual site, being taken offline.

They've announced the closure of their affiliate program.

The affiliate program software is still up and running, although there is now only one tiny link to it, on the very last page of the tour.


RE: " If so, maybe they should stop paying models until they complete their obligations to affiliates. "

I agree - I understand you to mean they should stop HIRING models and use what they have "in the can," meaning shoots and video they've already completed.

Of course, if they do that and things haven't turned around once they burn through all their existing content, they'll be out of things to post.


RE: " This is another reason why I am hesitant to use sponsors that self-pay. I know Epoch and CCbill will actually send what I'm owed. "

You certainly have to choose carefully. There are a number of good self-pays around. But you don't really know...

The old cliche about putting all one's eggs in the same basket comes to mind.

Smart money bets on those who promote a lot of different programs, so that a problem with any singe operation doesn't have a big impact.


RE: Google Adwords, " And they continue to buy Google Adwords which I think is abhorrent. "

That they continue to use Adwords while suffering cashflow issues makes me curious.

I wonder if it's a better advertising model than the traditional affiliate split.

Anybody have firsthand knowledge on this?



XXXWriterDude -

Ken,

At this point, I'm inclined to agree with you.

Reading back through this whole thread points out that nearly every post - not just mine - has been misinterpretted somehow and has required clarification.

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Originally Posted by ramp

XXXWriterDude -

Ken,

At this point, I'm inclined to agree with you.

Reading back through this whole thread points out that nearly every post - not just mine - has been misinterpretted somehow and has required clarification.

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A responsible post doesn't usually require clarification. ;)

Glad you see the point, though.

hahaha ... is everyone else getting a "Cum Back and Save" e-mail from these jokers inviting us to come back and join their site.

Are they just rubbing salt in our wounds?

Michael

Folks,

I think you'll receive these if you had been given a promotional "comp" user and pass for the member's area, as your stuff expires.

I did, however, receive a note from their lawyers explaining the money dilemma, with the promise that I'd be paid - eventually.

The figure stated is lower than what I calculate. Apparently, someone let the system cut checks in May but someone else never mailed 'em!

Just goes to show ya...


Ray