Open Thread

Max, just to wrap this up from our end... you are operating under a few misconceptions.

First, we do appreciate the people who have and continue to submit quality sites to our directory. I can't tell you how many of them have written back in response to our notice and said something along the lines of "its about time." The truth is, this is something we should have done a while ago but we've been focusing on other things. Everyone with a full fledged website will still be listed, and that includes hub sites that offer something of value. We're just getting out of the business of listing every 30 pic template site that comes along. If you really think about it, that business model hasn't changed in years and doesn't deliver nearly the results it used to.

Second, we aren't trying to crowd out submitters to make room for our own sites. You may not believe it, but we have never stacked the directory with our own sites... the Nasty Dollars sites you reference are from a submitter just like you. I suppose we could have made some money doing that but to be honest, there are much more efficient ways for us to get our own traffic to sponsors. Anyway, the proof will be in the pudding... when the new directory is up it will look much different.

Finally, we spend an awful lot of our own money getting traffic to our site. We want to make sure that our visitors have a pleasant experience and associate us with a quality experience so they keep coming back. The business keeps changing and surfers want more. That is absolutely the only reason for the change.

Best,
John

sean, please take a step back. none of this is personal at all and businesses must evolve to survive. also there is not a single link site or directory on the entire internet that is obligated to take any particular kind of site or any particular owner's site. these are private businesses and they can make whatever rules work for their sites.

what's more, if you would come to a webmaster lunch - and they are fairly local for you - you could meet andy mike, and maybe bryce. they're super nice guys and are always doing innovative stuff with JUB. each change may not work out well for you or for me, but they are trying to make something different.

there are TONS of link lists and directories. you can find more. personally i like the idea of a site that lists only high quality stuff - which is not to say i don't like regular lists, too.

here's a serious thought. why not start a twink site list of your own? you can post all your own stuff and other webmasters' stuff as well. all that text should bring some nice se hits and having linkbacks, no matter where on a site, will raise your pr.

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

JustBryce, can you be clearer about your definition of a quality site? Are we saying no sponsor content? limiting banners? minimum content? Im unclear about what you actually want in a site. Also are we saying it has to have its own domain name?

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Hey Marc,

Yes, for the most part we're only going to list sites on their own domain name. We're getting out of the business of listing hundreds of subdirectories of template sites.

That said, if someone has a quality site on a subdomain, or a blog on the blogger domain, we definitely want to list it. Its not so much the unique domain we're after as what that usually represents... and that leads me to the rest of your question. When I think of a quality site, I think of a site that people will want to visit again and again, both because it has good content and because its updated frequently. For free site builders, that might mean that we list your main URL or hub site that links to all of your content. We no longer want to list the "one off" type sites that are meant to be built and forgotten about.

Hope that helps a bit. :)

John

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

Max, you stated earlier that you weren't attacking anyone, but clearly you are, and it all sounds like a bunch of sour grapes to me. It's obvious that you're feeling personally insulted by the fact that these successful companies--which you may have helped to become successful, true--are changing their business models to suit their current needs. But the plain fact of the matter is, that's just the nature of business. As companies get bigger, they change the game plans and the rules as it suits them best. If you were an affiliate of theirs and you were helping to send them traffic, then you got paid accordingly for your efforts, so it wasn't like they were taking advantage of you any more than you were of them.

Still, business models change, and the FACT is that there is rarely a personal motivating factor involved in those decisions. On the outside, it may look to the webmasters who helped JUB that JUB is turning their back on them, but I seriously doubt that is actually the case. I have to add to the great things that have been said about the guys at JUB, as I cannot imagine coming across a more friendly, courteous, gracious and professional group of people in this business as the guys at JUB. I have had dinner with them and gone to shows with them a few times, and I have always enjoyed sharing their company. I don't know a whole lot about their business practices, true, because I haven't dealt with them on that level, but that's also why I'm a great person to share my thoughts here. I'm seeing this as an objective outsider with nothing to gain or lose from JUB, so I'm seeing it for what it really is, rather than what you are making it based on your own personal motives.

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I am really over this, but for the most part the people that think this kind of crap is cool, really have nothing to do with these companies or being a affiliate at all. Their are a few member sites, and directories I see that have the same ethics saying so, but that’s it.

In fact some of you still think you can make sites that will comply with these “rules’ in fact the reason for the rules is to prevent you from sending any sites to them or to make sure its not worth the time.

And yes the attitudes of cutting off all out side traffic, and the lack of regard for others in the community does scare the hell out of me. These people in reality are selling us all down the river too keep their sites open a few extra years. We need to be real here even JUB will not be around in 10 years, but will affiliates still be around?

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Originally Posted by basschick

here's a serious thought. why not start a twink site list of your own? you can post all your own stuff and other webmasters' stuff as well. all that text should bring some nice se hits and having linkbacks, no matter where on a site, will raise your pr.

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Such great advice. The only way to control your destiny is to control your own traffic. There is always room for a new, innovative site to shake things up... it happens everyday online.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I am really over this, but for the most part the people that think this kind of crap is cool, really have nothing to do with these companies or being a affiliate at all. Their are a few member sites, and directories I see that have the same ethics saying so, but that’s it.

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It's really unfortunate that you are so one-sided, and can't see beyond your own disappointment. Life is all about seeing two sides to every coin. That's what makes people mature. As a business person, you should be able to put your personal feelings aside and see this as a wonderful opportunity for JUB to take their business to the next level, and you should be happy for them.

I'm sure if I had been sending sites to them and those sites were denied, I, too, would be disappointed, and no one is saying that you don't have the right to feel that disappointment. But you're not seeing the bigger picture. You're choosing to wallow, and you're choosing to attack a company who has their own agenda. And the end-all-be-all is that it is THEIR agenda to plan. Give them the props they deserve, feel your pain, and let it go. You either accept it or you don't, but to continually attack them by tossing around terms like "crap" and "BS" is certainly not doing you or your business any good. You're not only burning a bridge with JUB, but several other webmasters on here who may have been beginning to warm to you may now be second-guessing doing any work with you. Having your say is sometimes not as important as you think it is.

My advice to you--and you may certainly take it or leave it, seeing as how you didn't really ask for it (even though posting on a public forum is essentially a form of asking for advice)--is that you seriously need to step outside yourself for a moment and let this one go.

That's my $.02.

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Originally Posted by basschick

sean, please take a step back. none of this is personal at all and businesses must evolve to survive. also there is not a single link site or directory on the entire internet that is obligated to take any particular kind of site or any particular owner's site. these are private businesses and they can make whatever rules work for their sites.

what's more, if you would come to a webmaster lunch - and they are fairly local for you - you could meet andy mike, and maybe bryce. they're super nice guys and are always doing innovative stuff with JUB. each change may not work out well for you or for me, but they are trying to make something different.

there are TONS of link lists and directories. you can find more. personally i like the idea of a site that lists only high quality stuff - which is not to say i don't like regular lists, too.

here's a serious thought. why not start a twink site list of your own? you can post all your own stuff and other webmasters' stuff as well. all that text should bring some nice se hits and having linkbacks, no matter where on a site, will raise your pr.

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I know they are cool guys Bass, if they can deal with my rambles they would have to be but I see many of these people destroying the profession I love. If you going to play these link games while pretending to be doing it for viewers, why not create all your own members sites too? Hell you might put 100 people out of work with your innovations, but you could hire a guy to get you coffee in the AM.

What a wonderful world we will live in if these corporate pirates could stream line the whole web like this.

I wish I could create a bunch of LL’s to replace the fake ones, but I am only one person that is stressed out enough as it is. I have been working pretty much every waking moment for years now, and could go on for hours about the members sites I have to update every day, the free/avs/fhg/mgp sites I have to create/list, the affiliate program I am working with designers now to launch, and countess other carp that fills my days.

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

It's really unfortunate that you are so one-sided, and can't see beyond your own disappointment. Life is all about seeing two sides to every coin. That's what makes people mature. As a business person, you should be able to put your personal feelings aside and see this as a wonderful opportunity for JUB to take their business to the next level, and you should be happy for them.

I'm sure if I had been sending sites to them and those sites were denied, I, too, would be disappointed, and no one is saying that you don't have the right to feel that disappointment. But you're not seeing the bigger picture. You're choosing to wallow, and you're choosing to attack a company who has their own agenda. And the end-all-be-all is that it is THEIR agenda to plan. Give them the props they deserve, feel your pain, and let it go. You either accept it or you don't, but to continually attack them by tossing around terms like "crap" and "BS" is certainly not doing you or your business any good. You're not only burning a bridge with JUB, but several other webmasters on here who may have been beginning to warm to you may now be second-guessing doing any work with you. Having your say is sometimes not as important as you think it is.

My advice to you--and you may certainly take it or leave it, seeing as how you didn't really ask for it (even though posting on a public forum is essentially a form of asking for advice)--is that you seriously need to step outside yourself for a moment and let this one go.

That's my $.02.

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Well if their site was failing I can see a need to do stuff like this and I would be understanding, but I would not be going around hiring new people at the same time you are saying how you site no longer work the way it used to. I would really Love to see these Free Sites that are going to set a new stranded for everyone, so when and IF they ever list some I please let me know.

I am really over it though, its not like these guys have not margined themselves years ago as far as affiliates go, I am just trying to stop this cancer from spreading in the only way I know how.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

but I see many of these people destroying the profession I love

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Idiot.

Its webmasters that submit templates sites to places like UGAS and JUB that are destroying the industry, not link lists changing their rules.

I tell you what, i guarantee you that in 3 months after the rules have changed, there are still going to be people submitting sites and cheating JUB out of traffic, which will mean the rules will need to be changed again because of the few that ruin it for the masses.

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Hell you might put 100 people out of work with your innovations

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Tough.

If people werent able to change their business model to get with the times, they had no place being in business to start with. Although to be fair, the bar has been lowered considerably in the past 5 years as to what someone actually 'needs' in order to become part of the adult industry, hopefully changes like this will start raising the bar again.

I know its a capitalistic viewpoint but, if you cant afford to adjust your business model to get with the times, perhaps you need to find a new vocation, i hear McDonalds are looking for staff again... Ding fries are done!

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I wish I could create a bunch of LL’s to replace the fake ones

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You mean a bunch of templated sites just to get the traffic? OMG! Shock horror, exactly the thing that JUB are trying to avoid happening on their own site.

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I have been working pretty much every waking moment for years now, and could go on for hours about the members sites I have to update every day, the free/avs/fhg/mgp sites I have to create/list, the affiliate program I am working with designers now to launch, and countess other carp that fills my days.

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Sounds like you need to be working smarter then. If, in all these years you havent figured out how to streamline the process of running your sites, perhaps you should think about a 'career' change?

Regards,

Lee

I will apologies to JUB for some personally things I did say, its not only them doing this stuff. But they have lead us down this road, where listing free sites is now considered one step from Spam

I am not sure why it seems no one can see what I am saying, and still keep acting like all this is anything more than CRAP.

Lets see these Superior Sites, would it not be a good idea to have a few before you stop taking any outside links, and removing other peoples hard work.

REally I dont care anymore, I have alot of work to get back to anyway L8

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I am not sure why it seems no one can see what I am saying, and still keep acting like all this is anything more than CRAP.

Lets see these Superior Sites, would it not be a good idea to have a few before you stop taking any outside links, and removing other peoples hard work.

REally I dont care anymore, I have alot of work to get back to anyway L8

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We all have work to do as well

But yet again we all took the time to help you understand

And yet again you don't get it.

A waste of everyones time and effort on your behalf

Just a bump that MAX has two threads running the same topic

Maybe someday, he will get the answers he seeks.

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Originally Posted by wnc

Just a bump that MAX has two threads running the same topic

Maybe someday, he will get the answers he seeks.

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Personal I am fine with this thread dying, they do not have to answer to me in fact the effort they did go though does say alott. I am fine with moving on with my life

I just wonder how many of your 46 posts had something to do with me?

Sorry
Much was written and MUCH invaluable info was exposed.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I just wonder how many of your 46 posts had something to do with me?

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I wanna keep up with his post count now. It should be noted that he is at 47 now!

I think it served its purpose, even thought I did not come off too good I guess. I hope it made some people think about the road we are going down. This was just my naive tempt to offer the only resistance, or put light on a issue I think is a growing and potently dangerous situation for a large number of people in webmaster community. :hmm:

Sometimes I think my lack of ability to properly express some issues I worry about is a big part of the problem. But I have always been more of a visually oriented person so this is a area I am lacking.

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Originally Posted by deanb

I wanna keep up with his post count now. It should be noted that he is at 47 now!

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LAUGH... I dont post often, as my count shows, but I read every day.

I do hope that MAX earned enough from his many posts FROM LEE.

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Originally Posted by deanb

I wanna keep up with his post count now. It should be noted that he is at 47 now!

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Let it be noted your only 2 posts off now :p

How is the Village these days man?

Max... almost 50 posts now

You complain that you have no time for your business, yet you abuse people here in the forum. After you say sorry, a few days later, you arrive full force again in attack mode. Like now, TWO THREADS with same theme, I guess you wishing someone to say.... MAX... YOU ARE SO RIGHT...

NOT!

Writing 3000 messages, I would think you are full of BS, but recently a invaluable member reviewed your efforts. You are on the path of success, it seems, but you have burned so many bridges along the way.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Let it be noted your only 2 posts off now :p

How is the Village these days man?

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I am assuming you mean the bar :) It is now called S4. They totally remodeled it, I think they added one something like 7500 sq feet or something crazy. You can check out pictures of it now at http://www.caven.com/

Actually I am getting dressed to head there now :)

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Originally Posted by deanb

I am assuming you mean the bar :) It is now called S4. They totally remodeled it, I think they added one something like 7500 sq feet or something crazy. You can check out pictures of it now at http://www.caven.com/

Actually I am getting dressed to head there now :)

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Fuck man, when did they change the name? Where did they get the extra space from the lesbian bar that was next door?

I so want to fly back their now so bad, lucky prick :crybaby:

I guess it was about 2 years ago, they really totally re-did the inside of it. The dance floor is HUGE now, they expanded everywhere really. They built over the lesbian bar, to make the rose room about 4 times the size that it was before.

It is a lot nicer than it was before, they really did a great job with it, AND it doesn't smell like puke anymore! HAHA

The Rose Room is what I am going for tonight, it is really quite massive with a huge stage, and the shows are even better than before in my opinion. As far as the dance floor, they are always having guest djs, and the sound and lighting is amazing! You should come down and check it out!

They also added a front patio in addition to the back one, that goes all along the front of the building.

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Originally Posted by deanb

I guess it was about 2 years ago, they really totally re-did the inside of it. The dance floor is HUGE now, they expanded everywhere really. They built over the lesbian bar, to make the rose room about 4 times the size that it was before.

It is a lot nicer than it was before, they really did a great job with it, AND it doesn't smell like puke anymore! HAHA

The Rose Room is what I am going for tonight, it is really quite massive with a huge stage, and the shows are even better than before in my opinion. As far as the dance floor, they are always having guest djs, and the sound and lighting is amazing! You should come down and check it out!

They also added a front patio in addition to the back one, that goes all along the front of the building.

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That does sound cool, and the place did look really tight now. But I did like it before too. I am going to have to spend a few weekends hanging out their. I could use seeing my family as a excuse to visit D

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Originally Posted by maxpower

That does sound cool, and the place did look really tight now. But I did like it before too. I am going to have to spend a few weekends hanging out their. I could use seeing my family as a excuse to visit D

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Alright, well I am heading out now to s4 :donmike:

*now back to your scheduled drama*

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Originally Posted by deanb

Alright, well I am heading out now to s4 :donmike:

*now back to your scheduled drama*

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Have a drink for me man, I will see ya thier this summer for sure :donmike: