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So you were 'happy' that you couldnt come to an agreement over the format of the show?Quote:
Originally Posted by OffshoreGayPorn
You were either 'unhappy' that an agreement couldnt be made, or 'happy' that an agreement couldnt be made.
Which is it?
Regards,
Lee
answer my question sir. Where did you pull the quote from that says I say sponsors were unhappy? I have never stated the emotional condition of anyone other then myself.
You are correct you didnt, however the overall tone of your post made it sound like they were unhappy along with yourself, i apologize for assuming you were unhappy with the Gay Phoenix Forum it was wrong of me to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by OffshoreGayPorn
Now that we know you and the sponsors werent unhappy with the show, why then did you group together in an effort to fuck CCBill over with your own show, in direct competition, and tell CCBill that none of you would be sponsoring their event this year?
I mean if you werent unhappy with how the Gay Phoenix Forum was handled, what possible reasons could you have to want to screw the gay side of the industry over other than lining your own pockets at the expense of those webmasters who would have liked to attend this years Gay Phoenix Forum?
If you were happy with how things were handled, why did you then decide to directly compete with the event in October, even though apparently several people heavily involved in this new show knew that CCBill would be holding another event this year?
If you were happy with the show, why then was a non-compete added to the show you guys were planning so that CCBill, a company that has openly accepted anyone as a sponsor to both the Phoenix Forum and the Gay Phoenix Forum, including Epoch, couldnt sponsor your event?
I mean, if you were unhappy with the Gay Phoenix Forum, which you werent by your own admission, it could be argued that you didnt deliberatly go out of your way to fuck CCBill or the gay webmaster community as a whole over for reasons other than sheer greed.... But you were happy with how the Gay Phoenix Forum was handled, so what are people to think?
Regards,
Lee
why would anyone reply to that?
you just spent half a page trying to prove that morgan was a liar. no - screaming triumphantly that he was a liar and quoting every board post you could get your hands on to back up this falsehood. now you just abandon your assertion and re-assert with conjecture and loose association another set of non facts that have no ties to reality.
lee, this is sounding like a witch hunt. you won't stop until you somehow prove great fault with morgan - what's your damage man?
you were proved to be falsely accusing him of LYING man. LYING!! how about an out and out apology for that act of libel? don't apologize for assuming he was unahppy. apologize for calling him a LIAR. you called him a LIAR lee. step up to the plate for crying out loud. you were WRONG.
as i see the only person on this board attempting to drive a steak in the gay webmaster community is you. time and time again you try and draw the line between your camp and anyone who isn't in your camp. every post you've made on the subject can be seen to do just this.
for the record, i am a friend of morgan. that hasn't clouded my judgment nor are your wild assertions of non-truth going to change the facts. which nobody but the people directly involved will ever know. no matter how much you "infer" you know the real story. you don't.
tell you what - if you absolutely know the truth of this situation, then quote specific individuals by name. step up and be responsible. go on record. let's hear what ron said on it with a quote not a paraphrase. let's hear what joel said - a quote, not a paraphrase. make actionable statements and we'll all be inclined to listen to you. as it stands - you've got nothing but inference. not good enough.
throw the mud at me now to take attention away from your own incongruous behaviour. call it whatever you like.
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS AND APOLOGIZE FOR CALLIING MORGAN A LIAR.
Karl,
What are you snorting?
If i did wrongly accuse Morgan of being a liar then i do apologize, it was my assumption that they were unhappy with the show, clearly they werent, they just decided to fuck CCBill over.
How is BedFellow doing for you these days by the way?
I hear they sold the company out from under you.
Regards,
Lee
lee,
like i said, "throw the mud at me now to take attention away from your own incongruous behaviour."
for the record, you directly accused morgan of being a liar. directly - it's not a question of "if" you did it. just apologize straight up.
Karl,
Im sorry for calling Morgan a liar, and that BedFellow was sold out from underneath you without your knowledge, you at least deserve recognition for how you shaped BedFellow the last couple of years.
Now, back on topic, why did Morgan, Epoch and AVN decide to fuck CCBill over by directly scheduling a show at the same time they knew that CCBill were planning the Gay Phoenix Forum?
We still havent had any answer to this simple question yet from anyone involved.
I mean if the sponsors were not unhappy about the way the Gay Phoenix Forum was handled, as Morgan has clearly stated, what possible reason could there be to fuck over CCBill who has been a steady supporter of the gay industry for years.
Again, we can keep throwing insults back and forth all night but it isnt going to answer the question lots of people want to know the answer to.
Why did AVN, Epoch and Cybersocket deliberately fuck over CCBill even when they were happy with how CCBill handled the Gay Phoenix Forum, or is that how this group of companies treats people they are 'happy' with?
Regards,
Lee
Personal attacks don't help anyone, regardless of who threw the first volley or what was said; those issues should be resolved via private email, and if public apologies are necessary, they can be made after the issues have been resolved privately. That's better for everyone and reduces noise on GWW.
I would like to draw attention to what I think is the original point being made... that so many people were disappointed by the cancellation of Gay Phoenix Forum, and that this was a completely needless occurrence, caused solely by the desire of one group to crush what a different group was trying to do.
I expect to see this sort of macho bravado in the straight (non-porn) world, but as adult webmasters in general, and gay adult webmasters in particular, people should know better. We are already a double minority group. As adult webmasters, we are usually not appreciated or supported by our legislators, the religious right, and many other groups, and even among the straight adult community, many are hostile, either openly or covertly, to what we do. So the last thing anyone in our industry should be doing is working against the overall good of the community. It's not just the nice and right thing to do, it's the thing that's best for business. If we work together and help each other, we ALL benefit, become more profitable, and grow faster.
Planning one show in direct competition, within the same month, to another, already established show is very clearly an act of aggression and divisiveness, regardless of any claims to the contrary. The result can only be increased divisiveness within the industry... something that is the absolute LAST thing this industry needs.
The notion that somehow CCBill hadn't committed for 2007 is simply not true. The notion that there were not adequate sponsors to support GPF is also not true; as everyone in this thread has acknowledged, all of the sponsors and nearly 100% of the attendees were happy with the show, and all that I spoke with (which is a majority of the sponsors) were planning to support it in 2007... until the backdoor dealing started happening, and then, magically, sponsors started pulling out.
The gay adult industry is probably big enough to support two shows, but not when this market is just developing. Clearly, there was absolutely no *need* to schedule one against the other, unless it was a self-centered need not reflective of the desires and wants of the community as a whole.
People and/or organizations who care about the industry as a whole, and not their own selfish interests, could have chosen to support *everyone* within the community, by supporting the CCBill event in October, and still have had a second event, perhaps in the spring or early summer.
This thread has been open for weeks. If the intentions of the people now posting were truly to create unity and cooperation in the community, everyone that is suddenly coming out of the woodwork to post now could have posted the day after CCBill made its announcement, and made it clear that they wished to work to support the community as a whole.
But this didn't happen. What happened instead was deafening silence from all of the parties involved in the Epoch/AVN event, and only now, after it's clear that the community's outrage isn't going to just go away, is somebody saying something. But really, none of the comments or explanations offered even address the issue of what's best for the community at large; it's "these particular sponsors couldn't make a deal with CCBill" or "Oh, it was a coincidence we scheduled it when we did" or "Oh, some of the big players had personality conflicts"... the sort of petty thing that should never get in the way of cooperation for the benefit of the community.
People who know me and have talked to me probably realize that I do my best to be a straight shooter, and I don't believe in taking "sides" because, really, there should BE no "sides" to take in this sort of situation. I have respect for every person that's posted in this thread, and at the same time, I probably have some differences of viewpoint with just about everyone who has posted. Yet at the end of the day, I can enjoy spending time with everyone in this thread (at least, the ones I've met), and I enjoy finding ways to work together that are mutually beneficial for everyone.
Based on the current flow of the conversation in this thread, and assuming that everyone does genuinely want what's best for the community as a whole (which also translates to what is best for each of us individually in the long run), I think we're headed in the wrong direction. Nothing good can come from that; people will be pissed at each other, more factions will be created, many people will feel forced to "side" with one camp or the other.
There isn't a single person or company that benefits from divisiveness. But in order to change things, people have to admit that there's an issue, and commit to working to resolve it.
That is what I have hoped since the first announcement from CCBill. It's still possible, but only if the sniping and the disingenuous statements on all sides stop.
I'm interested in finding a solution that truly benefits everyone and respects the needs of all. I hope that the others posting here (and everyone else in the community) shares this desire and will also commit to working toward a solution that unites rather than divides.
As Chip has restated. If anyone would like to have a private, non-threatening, and to the point conversation with me, the invitation is open.
So you basically want to keep your reasons for getting the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled private?Quote:
Originally Posted by OffshoreGayPorn
Why? It doesnt just affect you and CCBill, it affects the whole gay webmaster community, why cant you tell us publicly your reasons (and those of Epoch/AVN) for direcly competing with, and getting the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled?
Its a matter not just for people behind closed doors, but everyone in the industry.
CCBill made a public statement as to why they cancelled the show, people now want to know why your group felt the need to directly compete with the Gay Phoenix Forum using the underhanded tactics you used, i dont think it is to much of the gay webmaster community to ask that you let us know publicly your reasons for what you did.
Regards,
Lee
I have already made a public statement on behalf of Cybersocket. It is not my place to answer for other companies. I have answered as to our motivations and intentions. If that is unacceptable to a few individuals at this board, so be it. As I have stated twice before. Anyone, including you Lee, are welcome to call me privately and discuss this in a rational and sane manner. Cybersocket will not be participating in this thread from this point forward.
Wow.
So - we open a thread, demanding an explanation from someone in the know.
We recieve one.
And instead of considering the response, we attack the responder and call him a liar.
And it kind of becomes clear why Epoch and GayVN have just kept thier mouths shut, because apparently no explanation is acceptable.
This is a really awful thread to read. Can we just stop it now?
But we didnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun
We got a statement, passing the blame on to CCBill for not being able to agree on a format with some other companies.
The question as to why this group of individuals decided, in backrooms, to directly compete with the Gay Phoenix Forum, even though they were by all accounts, happy with how the show was being operated, hasnt been answered.
The answer to many of us is clear, but these companies just dont have the balls to come right out and say it, they wanted to get the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled to further their own needs, rather than the needs of the gay adult industry.
You can at least respect someone who tells it like it is, shying away from this discussion for almost 2 weeks then suddenly coming out, in force and not really answering any of the questions being asked just doesnt cut it.
These companies were very public in announcing their 'show' yet when the tough questions started to get asked, nobody wanted to answer them publicly.. Instead, almost 2 weeks later, they tell us that they want to answer them behind closed doors.
I just dont see what the big deal is with the main companies involved (Cybersocket, Epoch, AVN) in getting the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled just coming right out and saying they only launched their show in October to make money and to profit off the success of the Gay Phoenix Forum and off the gay webmaster community, to the detriment of the gay webmaster community but to their benefit.
Regards,
Lee
I have no motivation in this discussion either way, but the most emotional community members have tried to frame the discussion in their own contentious way, which evidently isn't going to get an answer any faster, and isn't surprising.
So had folks considered coming at it differently maybe things would be different. Whether it's the answers people want to hear or not, at least we'd have something to judge them on (i.e. whether we believe them or not is our own perogative), rather than passing judgement on nebulous silence because they chose not to engage in a dialog of loaded questions fueled by presuppositions.
$0.02
As far as I can see, Lee, you are the only one throwing insults around, as per your usual M.O. whenever someone calls you on your crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Wanting to know answers to certain questions does not give you license to attack people and call them "scumbags" or to resort to childish, underhanded maneuvers like pointing out how someone's company might have been sold out from underneath them just to embarrass or humiliate them publicly. Why don't you act like an ADULT for a change, and not a 5-year-old bully on a playground who doesn't have anything else in his arsenal besides insults and put-downs? Or is that honestly all you have in your bag of tricks?
You're supposed to be somebody that others in this industry can look up to and respect, Lee, yet the example you give them to follow is one of bitterness, contempt, arrogance, and self-righteousness. You accuse companies of dividing the industry, yet you never turn the mirror on your own actions and examine just how much you yourself are contributing to everything that is wrong about this business. You're not serving any "greater good" as you often like to say. In fact, you're not serving anybody but yourself, and that's truly sad.
And yet, you wonder why nobody from AVN or Epoch comes on here to respond to this thread or the other one! Sheesh! Why would anybody subject themselves to your endless self-righteousness and your tireless tirades against, well, everyone? It's exactly like I said in the other thread. You don't CARE what anybody has to say about what REALLY happened, because you will find some way to use the shit you've heard in heresay to shoot them down and act like you know the whole story.
You exhaust me, Lee. In fact, you exhaust a lot of people. And you should honestly be ashamed of yourself.
I cannot speak on behalf of my bosses at AVN and AVN Online. But I can tell you that they are NOT scumbags, as you outright called them. If they were, I wouldn't still be working here after three years. They are great guys who would bend over backwards to help someone just getting started in this industry, regardless of whether they were straight or gay, and that's the truth. I know that doesn't answer a lot of the questions put forth here, and for that I apologize. It's just not my place to speak for them.
However, I can also tell you that a lot of what has been said in this thread and in the other one is nothing but heresay, conjecture and assumptions. In fact, as Karl rightly pointed out, this whole thread stinks of the Salem witch trials, in which an entire community of people with "good intentions" got together and worked themselves into a frenzy and attacked and hurt a lot of people who weren't deserving of it. Everyone loves to attack AVN for being a for-profit company who charges admission to our shows--as if such a thing were inconceivable in this industry of all industries. Oh, my God. We want to make money by putting on shows that have true educational and networking value and provide a forum in which everyone can benefit. What awful, horrible people we are! We've become everyone's favorite punching bag--even though, as I've pointed out many times, MANY of you have benefited from our publications and especially from my tenure here. And it's really discouraging to see so many of you that I've helped out joining in on this little bitterness bandwagon. Sad. How very, very sad.
You know, nobody raised any eyebrows when Xbiz put on their Hollywood Conference just 3 weeks after our January Internext show. I didn't see any of you people screaming out or boycotting their show for "unfair competition" or dividing the industry. Yet as soon as AVN schedules a show during a time that coincides with that of another gay-specific show, all the gloves come off. Where's the disconnect here?
Anyway, this has gone on too long. I told myself I wouldn't respond to this thread--that I wouldn't stoop to the same level of hostility and negativity that has become the standard behavior on this board--hostility and negativity that you openly encourage and perpetuate, Lee, then turn around and blame everyone else for being the "scumbags." I don't want to fan any of those flames or further contribute to such senseless displays of unhealthy ego. But it's hard to sit here and read through this crap and not say anything. However, I've actually done a pretty good job of staying away from GWW for the past week or so. Looks like I'll have to try harder to keep up with that.
I've said my peace, and I'm moving on. I won't be posting in this thread again. I have REAL WORK to do.
In the hopes to get some answers to questions instead of diversionary tactics to shift the flow of the discussion....
Now that we know the previous sponsors, AVN, Cybersocket and Epoch werent unhappy with the Gay Phoenix Forum, why then did that group together in a collaborative effort decide to launch their own show when it was perfectly clear everyone was happy with the status quo of the Gay Phoenix Forum?
What possible reasons could this group have to want to screw the gay side of the industry over other than lining their own pockets at the expense of those webmasters who would have liked to attend this years Gay Phoenix Forum?
Why also did they then decide to directly compete with the Gay Pheonix Forum event in October, even though apparently several people heavily involved in this new show knew that CCBill would be holding another event this year at the same time?
Why was a non-compete added to the show this group were planning so that CCBill, a company that has openly accepted anyone as a sponsor to both the Phoenix Forum and the Gay Phoenix Forum, including Epoch, were unable to sponsor the event?
It could be argued that you deliberatly went out of your way to fuck CCBill or the gay webmaster community as a whole over for reasons of sheer greed.... Hopefully we can get a solid explanation that doesnt include this argument, or at least that doesnt profess greed was the primary reason for the actions this group of companies took.
Regards,
Lee
But see, Lee - it seems to me unless they say JUST THAT (hey - we were out to fvck ccbill) - no other answer is acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Sure - I may be rebecca of sunny brook farms here... but MOST people dont make decisions based on stuff like "Lets Screw GPF (insert competitors name)"
If Morgan's story is true, CCbill dithered and dallyed about dates, and maybe even had some internal discussions on whether to do the October show at all. One year does not a tradition make, and shows are expensive and an immense amount of work.
So, GayVN and Epoch say "well, make up your minds, would ya" - and then decide to go ahead and schedule when it would be good for them. October is the best month of the year in LA.
Now, since neither one of us was there.... isn't it just as likely that a series of events that led to this, as it was a purposeful attempt to hurt CCbill or anyone else?
As some one else on this thread said, its business. But plain old fallible people are the ones running the business, and people make mistakes - misjudgement - have conflicts; this doesnt a conspiracy make.
Finally - honestly, in 5 years will this REALLY matter to you? In not, why are we putting so much energy here.
If you talk to the principles, and find out that this was all really sleazy, use that to guide your billing decsions... but most likely, this was just one of those things that happen in business.
I LIKE the people at Epochsystem. I LIKE the folks I work with at CCbill. I like the folks at GayVN - at all these companies, I have always been treated well. I'm sorry they had a spat. I hope they shake hands and stay friends. But unless we were in the room at the time, we have NO idea what really happened here.
xxxwriterdude:
for the record, bedfellow was neither sold out from underneath me nor was it sold. that was nothing more than lee stating something and allowing conjecture to create a lie without him having to take responsibility with an actionable statement.
you see he's trying to embarrass me for something that hasn't even happened. it's called a pot shot but that one missed the mark entirely. i am still (as i have always been) a partner in bedfellow.com - nothing on that front has changed. this is a fact. sorry to burst your bubble on that one, lee.
it's off topic but worth mentioning.
karl
Lee attempts to make an art form out of spreading flat out lies about people without doing it in a way that would allow for an actionable response by those he's chosen to badmouth on any given day.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLove
The fact that Lee, who is probably more damaging to the gay side of the adult industry than just about anybody else in it, has been egging this thread along, is more than laughable.
Personally, I think he's grown too comfortable with the position his board currently has, and feels that he's fireproof because of it. Any smart business man will tell you, that's exactly what gets companies into trouble.
I have a feeling the future will show Lee that badmouthing everyone in an industry you call yourself a member of, isn't the best way to succeed in said industry over the long term.
- John Paul
I did have a great time at the Forum as all my friends were there.... Was I happy with the treatment we got as a sponsor NO! Two different issues and I also heard other sponsors say they were not happy as well! But that is not the issue.... The issue seems to be that people are upset about this new show for some reason.... I guess Webmaster Access and Xbiz could have had the same fight as their shows were the same week. But I didn't see this drama or fighting over it on the boards.... Shows come and go all the time! Lets just all go to the ones we want and avoid the ones we dont want too... Why is there so much drama and discussion?
Exactly. I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I just have to agree with this statement. Where was all this fire and brimstone when Xbiz scheduled their Hollywood Conference just 3 weeks after our January Internext show? Oh, wait... you were all BENEFITTING from that show. I see. So it's fine if there is unfair competition, as long as everyone else gets what THEY want out of it, right? I see nothing but hypocrisy disguised as altruism in this thread, and it's truly ugly. U-G-L-Y, I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
The XBiz show wasn't a gay-webmaster specific show scheduled in the exact same month as another gay-webmaster specific show. They don't even compare.
Yeah they do actually.... And in fact Webmaster Access was upset with Xbiz it was the same week so the people had to choose which one to go too! It was a webmaster show lots of people had to choose and yet no drama! Funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD
No one's motivated by philanthropy here. Not GayVN, not Epoch, not Cybersocket, not CCBill. At the end of the day it's all about making money.
So GayVN, Epoch and Cybersocket have every right to do things that'll make them more money and help them be what they view as successful.
What's unique to this particular case, though, is the product earning these companies money is billed and presented as being something to benefit the community. That's what the organizer of any of these events presents them as and, indeed, that's what the events should be. Once the community determines it's no longer a benefit to them, they stop attending.
What I hope people in this case realize is that the principles behind the GayVN Oct. event may very well have cost the community a lot more and harmed it a lot more than helped it. Everyone will end up paying the price. All because they couldn't stand to see someone else pull off such a good event.
When someone stabs ya in the back, they're not doing you any favors by handing you a bandaid.
There's a show every other week in this industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
When it came time for the GayVN/Epoch/Cybersocket show to pick a date, they went with the same month as the only other gay webmaster-specific show on the entire calendar.
Talk about those other shows all you want. It just draws even more attention to the absurdity of selecting the one sole month on the entire calendar that conflicts with an existing gay webmaster-specific show.
The recently-posting parties continue to distract from the main issue, which is that out of 12 months, they chose the same month as an already established, successful show for a new event in a market that wasn't yet strong enough to support two shows at the same time.
Brian is right; Xbiz and Internext are predominently straight shows and the potential audience is much larger than a gay show. Scheduling at the same time is still not the best, but it wouldn't be a "show killer" as it was for GPF. And to say that October is the only acceptable month to host a show in LA is hardly credible. And posting the same thing over and over doesn't make it true.
If anyone wants to talk with me privately, I'm open; chip at gaybucks dot com or ICQ 272-995-402, via PM here, or my phone is 510-526-0454.
I would love to see a real resolution rather than stonewalling.
I totally agree with this. I think it's too bad that the shows were at the same time but I am just happy that there are GAY shows now. There weren't any forever and it's nice to have them now. I know that AVN might look bad for having the show the same time but I really don't think that they did that on purpose. I love to work with both and as Brian said there are always shows right after another. I didn't read through all these five pages of comments but I get the point. A good example is the xbiz show in LA then the GFY show right after in Lake Tahoe. That's a great example of two shows being right after another and just not possible for everyone to attend. I just am just glad that they are trying to work with the gay market again and get us all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD
agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
karl
Which is really the key here, in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
Have a show all you want.
But it's clear from the Oct. selection date that the intent of the GayVN Retreat organizers was to not just have their own show, but prevent GPF from taking place. They wanted to be sure to eliminate the possibility of GPF taking place. It wasn't just "How can we have a gay webmaster show?". It was "How can we have a gay webmaster show and be sure there are no other ones?".
And that hurts all of us. That is why, when I look at the GayVN Retreat, I see an event that will take place at the expense of the gay webmaster community and that was borne from circumstances negatively impacting all of us.
still agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD
Not going to argue you with you. But if you see this show having no benefit then dont go! Period... I remember a time you used to endorse Cybersocket stuff when you worked there. So you do know they are good people. This is business people. GPF closed there show ok so let's move on... You dont like you dont have to go but I know lots of us will!
The exact same thing can be said regarding your statements purporting to know exactly what everyone's intentions are, Chip, yet you keep posting the same things again and again. Contrary to popular belief, the things we do are not motivated by the desire to screw other people over.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
And that's all I wrote, this time for real. Hopefully Chad will get involved and post his own remarks about this, but I wouldn't blame him if he didnt. The unmistakable venom in this thread is a vile example of how low this industry can stoop.
:quote:Not going to argue you with you. But if you see this show having no benefit then dont go! Period... I remember a time you used to endorse Cybersocket stuff when you worked there. So you do know they are good people. This is business people. GPF closed there show ok so let's move on... You dont like you dont have to go but I know lots of us will!:quote:
:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:....and that is all I have to say.
:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:....and that is all I have to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
Actually, I never worked at Cybersocket. I worked for a different company in the same office building. And I know a lot from my time working there. But I don't think you can assume what it is I know or how I feel about some of the people there. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
And certainly, I'll not be attending the GayVN Retreat.
Sorry everyone for the double post, my computer was messed up and froze on me.
EEK!!!
Sigh.
It's a fact that the Cybersocket/AVN/Epoch show was scheduled at the same time as GPF, after that timeframe was already established as the timeframe for GPF. I don't think anyone is disputing that, so Karl's reposting of my statement doesn't really say anything. You don't have to repeat a true statement to make it true.
IF Cybersocket, Epoch, and AVN want to heal the rift, they can. They can make a statement to the effect that they would welcome and support a rescheduling of GPF at a different time, and they would acknowledge that scheduling their event in the same timeframe, as well as locking out certain companies because of "personality conflicts" was not in anyone's best interest and take steps to change that.
But that isn't what you see happening. Instead, you get (paraphrasing) "We've already accomplished what we set out to do, and we have no interest or desire in changing, so quit bitching about it and live with it. You'll either go to our show or none at all."
BTW, I always found Brian to be a straight shooter, when he was at Bionic Pixels as well as now. He's not trashing Cybersocket (nor am I), he's simply saying that this show schedule is not in the best interests of the gay webmaster community. And ultimately, the good of the community as a whole is what *everyone* reading this thread should be concerned about.
I am sorry to feed the flames. Lee tends to write many times in a forceful questionable manner - yet I still see many of his questions yet unanswered.
I am certainly not one of the major parties involved in this dispute, far from it. I am just a small Proudly Gay, fully adult-employed webmaster. I do see this incident as affecting me personally, as seemingly just a few power players have decided what is best for me and the Gay Adult industry.
What I am more curious about is what Lee wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
I, like Lee, would like a reason for that non-compete clause. Why is CCBILL shut out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
(responding to Chip's post...)
That's really it. Holly, it doesn't matter how I feel about Cybersocket or the people there.
Also doesn't matter how I feel about Epoch or the people there - many of my favorite people in the industry and indeed one of my longest standing friends in the industry works there.
It's about the GPF being sacrificed for an agenda that'll harm rather than help the industry and gay webmasters losing what could very well have been one of the greatest resources available to all of us because a group of companies chose to pursue that.
It has been brought to my attention by a valid source that Brian Dunlap did not ever work for Cybersocket specifically, he was employed by two different companies in which Tim and Morgan are majority share holders. :morning: