Wish You Were Straight?

Gay marriage and Pearl Harbor? What the heck are you talking about? I never said anything about Pearl Harbor.

As for the stereotypes I'm using. How many different ways can I say I know they are stereotypes and that's why I'm saying them. That's what sarcasm is. I'm saying things that are obviously ludicrous to make a point. That's why I said I have a strong sense of fashion, like to cook, etc. Those attributes are no more gay than they are straight and are obviously stereotypes. That was my point. Obviously since I'm not gay and have those traits it isn't true that only gay men have them. I know plenty of gay men that are slobs and don't have a clue how to cook and hate Cher. Get it? I understand those are stereotypes.

Taking offense to something is all in how we perceive the statement, as you have made clear. You don't find quoting so called statistics that say gays are richer and smarter as a group than straights offensive. I do. I don't find stating that gays can't legally marry and that would be one good reason for not wanting to be gay offensive and yet, obviously the rest of you did.

I'm normally a lurker here :) but every once in a while I like to add my two cents, for what it's worth.

I hate to be the devil's advocate (well, no actually I don't), but I'm going to have to stick up for Hammer a bit.

First, I think it was pretty rude and bias to say that Hammer shouldn't have posted in this thread. Much like the GLTB people on this board have an opinion on whether they wished they were straight, straight people can also be enlightening about their thoughts on the idea. Now whether you agree with what he said or not, it's true. He doesn't want to be gay because of the hardships that many of you (and I as well) have faced. That is a very plausible argument, and it works for him, and I guarantee that most straight people wouldn't want to be gay because of some of those same reasons. It's like me saying that I wouldn't want to be living in Iraq right now, because I might die. That's not to say that I'm making fun of people who are dying in Iraq, it's a statement that I wouldn't want to be one of them, that I am thankful that I do not have to worry about the problems they are faced with. He doesn't want to be gay because there are drawbacks, and you all know there are drawbacks, so it's fair to assume that someone who isn't hindered by the same draw backs that you are (and I'll repeat: I am), would not want to be like us. It makes sense to me, and I don't see where that's offensive.

And then you (plurally) took offense to his comment about having your pets as children. Is it not true? Do not many of you think of your pets as children for obvious reasons? Is your life really complete? Or is there a reason that we have pride marches, that we march the steps of our town halls, state capitols, and even the white house? Are we doing this merely for something to do, or are we (as I think we are) doing this to gain completness in our lives. Equality for us. The ability to be married, the ability to have children, the ability to live out the American dream (for those that live in America). And I'm not saying that our lives are not complete, or that we cannot be happy without these things, but are these not the things that we're looking for to make us MORE happy, and MORE complete?

Why should you get angry when a straight man realizes the struggles that GLTB people and couples face today in this world, and understands that HE would not want to go through it? That is a great thing in this country. Someone who understands, and whether it is obvious or not, people who understand us are more likely to help us rather than hinder us.

I'm going to get off my soap box now, as I've thrown in more than my fair two cents, but I hope that you'll take this as an opportunity to look at Hammer's post from a different perspective, and see the positive rather than the negative. Concentrate on the rainbow, not the rain that brought it.

Michael

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Originally posted by Hammer
Gay marriage and Pearl Harbor? What the heck are you talking about? I never said anything about Pearl Harbor.

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Look at the quote between your name on posts and your pic, silly! I was talking about those quotes, to everyone, not you, jeez you are pretty dense.

Hammer, I was referring to you addressing us collectively in the rest of your responses, not your original post, as being stereotyped generalizations. Such as us "huddling together in little groups" As far as I know, that would be considered getting to know people who know the market you work in. Anyway, i'm done talking about it with you.

Pixxxel:

He said that he is legally married , has kids, and dosn't need pets to make his life feel complete. To me that is rubbing it in our collective faces. I would never walk up to a black man and go "Jeez, it must suck to be turned down for jobs by racists. I'm sure glad I don't have that problem." etc. The question of my post and poll was "If you could be straight, would you?" Not, "If you could be gay, would you?" therefore he could have saved his opinions for a thread that asked for them, that's all I meant by saying he shouldn't have posted. Now, let's please move on it wasn't offensive to me, just annoying, and i'm aggravated that a nice guy that I respect stated that he felt like he had been "slapped in the face" when he read it.

If anyone else has an opinion on the original question, I'd love to hear it, after all that WAS the purpose of this thread!!!

Thanks Pixxxel.

To the rest of you. I meant no offense with any of my remarks (even the one about the pets) and I apologize to those of you that were offended.

I do think I deserve some credit for helping this thread get to 4 pages so quickly though. Sometimes, shit stirrers are good for business. :grin:

I've written and deleted about 25 responces to this thread... I should probably just shut up, never wanting to be too close to the fan when the shit hits.

HOWEVER...

I don't think anybody meant to piss anyone off, and I think we're all perfectly able to just agree that a loaded question like "Wish You Were Straight?" is gonna make for some sticky responces.

Hammer, I did exactly the same thing to you on YNOT a few months back, thinking I was being funny about Stereotypes (that was about living in Canada vs. the USA), and people didn't get my humor, as can happen in a written medium like the internet. So although I'm sure you didn't mean to get backs up, it's cool that you ackowledge that you did... so thanks.. and no problem.

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Originally posted by Jasun
I think we're all perfectly able to just agree that a loaded question like "Wish You Were Straight?" is gonna make for some sticky responces.

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I wanted to know how members of the GLBT community have felt about and dealt with this issue. I already know how a lot of straight men and women feel about it, truethfully and sarcasticly.

The reason I even asked is because I've known so many men (no women though!) who have said things like "I wish I was straight, for my mother if not me" or "It would be so much easier if I just turned straight", "I would be straight in a second if I could be" etc, I can't relate to feelings like this, so it was a decent question to ask right?

hammer - no one asked on this thread if straight people wished they were gay. it was a thread with a very different impact, because sadly some gay people wish they were straight - to the point where they have killed themselves or killed others so no one would know they were gay.

no straight people have killed themselves or spent years of self loathing because they weren't gay.

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Originally posted by DigitalJay
thanks to you the thread is half crap when it was meant to be about the feelings of GAY MEN.

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Hey look on the bright side, you're on your way to winning the free pass contest :groovy:

You all should know better than to take things personally from a posting on a message board. The written word can in no way convey the exact meaning that a spoken word can, and can often lead to miscommunication.

I have known Hammer online for some time now and was able to meet him in person at Cybernet and I can vouch for him that he totally does not come off as homophobic in any way. And since he does a radio show with a gay man I would hardly think of him as meaning to offend people on this board (besides, if he did, I don't think TonyD would let him forget that).

Hammer, you do have to remember that gay people have negativity streaming at us from all sides, even in these enlightened days, where our very President is trying to change the Constitution in order to take away our rights, people are getting into heated legal battles over a very basic civil right that is being denied to us, and reality TV shows are being made that belittle not only our lives but some of the very issues that are so serious to gay people that it has driven many into therapy and even suicide. So it is understandable when people take things personally. I could tell that you were stating that you are happy being you, and that you have a lot of things going for you as a straight man. Once again, the meaning of the written word gets interpreted in different ways, often totally different than the intention.

One more thing to keep in mind here. Everyone has been making very strong points, both gay and straight. Both pleasant and unpleasant issues have been talked about and we all had an excellent opportunity to learn from one another. I urge you all to take a little time and reread this thread, but take your own emotions and assumptions out of the picture and look at the meaing of each post objectively. We all have many things to learn from each other. If we all had the same points of view, we would all be the same person, and how boring would that be? And the benefit of seeing someone else's point of view on a subject is this... They say the grass is greener on the other side, so look at your own as others see it and you may see a totally different place.

Oh, and one last little thing. "Vanilla", in the bdsm community, simply means that you are not kinky. I cannot vouch for Mr. Hammer's level of kinkocity, for I do not know him well enough. Hee hee. Have a good weekend everyone. :)

I am straight. I think if all gay people turned straight then the world would be less fortunate because of it. I think the diversity around us is what makes life worth living.