Court Hangs 2 Gay Teens

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

I wish it were such lofty principals. My personal OPINION is that Bush lead the US into war with Iraq for his own personal political gain and to stoke the coffers of his friend's companies.

---

That's definately why Bush went to war there.

In regards to supporting the war.. regardless of the reasons we were put there.. would you support the war on the grounds of changing how these people live.. if for nothing else.. the reason that they openly hang people for homosexual sex?

I personally think that's reason enough to stay in Iraq and even take the war to Iran and to stay in Afghanastan. They need to learn to be civil and treat people equally, their women, children, and homosexuals.. even if it is through violence. :king:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squirt

That's definately why Bush went to war there.

In regards to supporting the war.. regardless of the reasons we were put there.. would you support the war on the grounds of changing how these people live.. if for nothing else.. the reason that they openly hang people for homosexual sex?

I personally think that's reason enough to stay in Iraq and even take the war to Iran and to stay in Afghanastan. They need to learn to be civil and treat people equally, their women, children, and homosexuals.. even if it is through violence. :king:

---

Damn it Suirt--I can't tell if that is tongue-in-cheek or not. Do you really advocate going to war and killing people to teach them to act more civilized???

Oh, and one thing just to stir up a little chat--I don't "support the troops" either. The Bush administration has bastardized support for the troops to mean supporting the war itself--Bushco makes you out to be a traitor if you don't support their war. They catch you and reel you in by making you want to "support the troops" -- by Congress agreeing to spend billions and billions and billions for the war, they are supposedly just "supporting the troops" but in reality, they are supporting Haliburton and mercenaries and thousands of highly paid "security personnel" that are outside the rule of law and under the radar. The whole war in Iraq is a cluster fuck.

But now you have gotten me off topic!!!

Iranian justice sanctions brutal murder of teenagers that engage in private consensual sex and the rest of the world hardly knows about it or seems to care!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

Damn it Suirt--I can't tell if that is tongue-in-cheek or not. Do you really advocate going to war and killing people to teach them to act more civilized???

---

The civilized part was tongue and cheek yes :goofy:

We are being killed and terrorized because of someone elses moral beliefs.

I do believe in going to war to defend ourselves and protect our way of life.

Even though Bush lied to us regarding Iraq.. I'm slowly starting to believe that occupying the middle east over a long period of time might be a solution to the problem. I'm really torn on this issue... but people in the middle east have existed on this earth as long as we have and look where their society is. Where would German society be if we hadn't gone to war? Where would Hitler be? How else do we stop a group of people from attacking us?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

Iranian justice sanctions brutal murder of teenagers that engage in private consensual sex and the rest of the world hardly knows about it or seems to care!

---

It's not just Iran. Iran is considered white washed and more pro western then Iraq.

If you are Gay ANYWHERE in the middle east you suffer the same fate. Also don't forget they cut the hands off those who steal ( I won't link to the video here )

The cycle of anger and hatred in the middle east must be stopped. It's not good for the women, children and homosexuals of that part of the world and it's definately not good for the world itself.

Squirt, I don't think those changes you see coming about as a sort of side effect to the war will ever actually take place. There's a huge difference between forcing political change and true cultural change.

Look at our best friends in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia. Here we have a country that is tied to us economically more than any other country in that region. Yet economic relations, a relatively free and capitalist market, Western industry, a significant population of Westerners living in Saudi Arabia, close ties between our government and theirs, Western investment in Saudi and in turn Saudi investment in the US. All of those things you'd think would eventually lead to this kind of cultural shift you're seeing might come out of Iraq. But it's not. At all.

Look at Iran, even. The seeds of fundamentalist Islam in that country have been around for awhile. Even when the United States was best friend to the ruling Iranian regime (the Shah of Iran). Here we had a pro-Western government in Iran, Western companies freely doing business in Iran, and extremely close ties to that country at the political and economic level. Yet what came out of that? Resentment and bitterness among the populace over the Shah's blatant corruption, seething anger, the people's embracing fundamentalist Islam in response to that and the overthrow of the Shah and ascent of an ultra-religious regime.

Iraq, as well. Is Iraq truly as backward culturally as one would think? Iraq was a close ally of the United States throughout the 80s, again close economic and political ties (especially given their being able to act as a buffer to Iran). It's only been since the early 1990's that Iraq was our "archenemy", so to speak.

Kuwait? We liberated that country from Iraq. Yet women still have little rights there and it's still the tribal, patriarchal (and deeply religious) political system (and cultural environment) there as it was beforehand. Despite an intensely friendly and cooperative relationship between the US and Kuwait.

Egypt. The country that, second to Israel, receives more US foreign aid than any country on the planet and with whom the US has had very close ties since Sadat brought Egypt away from the Soviet bloc and in to a relationship with the west. The Egyptian government continues to be one of our closest allies in the region, our economic and military ties with them run deep, and some wished to consider them a model of moderation and secularism in the region. Yet it's still very, very illegal to have gay sex there. Democracy there is something none of us in the west would recognize, and if we did we'd call it totalitarianism.

So... will the invasion and occupation of Iraq (or any country in the region, for that matter) result in a shift towards western cultural and moral values like you're suggesting? I don't think so. I think what we've seen in the Middle East for decades is a complete detachment between economic westernization and cultural westernization, political westernization and religious westernization, social westernization and industrial westernization... and any possibly combination of any of the above. One doesn't necessarily, if ever, translate in to the other.

the death penalty for a consensual sex crime should outrage anyone that believes in the free flow of expression and legal adult entertainment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDBionic

Squirt, I don't think those changes you see coming about as a sort of side effect to the war will ever actually take place. There's a huge difference between forcing political change and true cultural change.

---

You're last post kicked ass! It should get a post of the year award for composition, clarity and thoroughness.. excellent post!

There is a difference betweeen forcing political change and true cultural change. I agree. We cannot just sit back and let them fester to the point of having an almost endless supply of suicide bombers out to kill any westerner because of their own radical beliefs.

We cannot let them believe that they can suicide bomb London, America or any other western country, without consequences.

In order for a true cultural revolution to occur, the people have to be ready for it.. I agree.. but untill then they will suffer the consequences of supporting this subculture of hatred, torture and murder in the name of their God. At this point the consequences are war and occupation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

the death penalty for a consensual sex crime should outrage anyone that believes in the free flow of expression and legal adult entertainment.

---

I agree.

They just don't get it.

In the name of honor a man can kill his wife, or throw acid on her for leaving him, or cheating on him, or asking for a divorce. A man can also have multiple wives. Most men will refuse to marry a woman that's not a virgin and if a woman is raped it's her fault.

Their culture fundamentally believes that the heterosexual man is king and can do whatever he likes.. and anyone else is below him or evil. It is so sad.

They also fundamentally believe that our culture is evil and our women are sluts for wearing skirts and makeup. They believe our men are weak and that homosexuality is from satan.

So what do we do?

I dont know, Squirt. I dont know.

that is soo pathetic .. the person who hung them should have his balls shot off and stuck in his mouth.

That is really terrible, to be gay as death sentence is incomprehensible!

We all have to fight against that without weapons, of course.

Sorry to bring this outrage back into everyones minds, it just really screwed with mine so I wanna talk about.

I'm pretty daft when it comes to world history, and world politics, but I've read plenty of rise-up-and-revolutionise stories in the history of many countires. Why don't the people of these middle eastern countries ever say enough is enough, pick up anything that can be used as a weapon, and execute the shit out of the evil assholes that try to control them and make their lives hell? Why are the women and gay men of these countries such PUSSIES? If it wasn't for the women, gay men, african americans, etc etc of the USA, who tend to all have bigger balls than the crusty old white men who try to control them, this country would never have evolved either.

Do these people have NO balls? I can't see how they are such pitiful sheep. I hate it when idiotic people say "We should just nuke the shit out of them" but the more and more I learn about lovely Iran and Iraq, the more I almost start to entertain this fantasy. When you start to think a whole group of people is filthy trash that the world would be better without, you start feeling like a Nazi and that's scarey.

And why do these two boys seem so calm? The one on the left almost looks like he's smiling. Animals all have survival insticts, I know that personally I would be kicking and screaming and pretty much foaming at the mouth if someone tried to put a rope around my neck. Even if you KNOW you are going to die, I would think some part of anyones mind would fight it, that just seems natural.