Ccbill Banning the word Twinks?

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Originally Posted by azurablu9

But, no matter how many times I change my site, as they've directed, I keep getting declined.
I would never have suspected a company like CCBill to do something out of spite but...well...this does seem a bit odd to me.
Maybe they DO have an issue with twink sites.
azura blu

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No, it's not that. The problem is that the way CCBill's compliance works. They go through the site, and when they find a problem, they STOP compliance checks and report what they've found. Then, when you fix the first reported problems, they continue the compliance checks. I've had to go 10 rounds with them before, and I, too, got frustrated that (unlike Paycom) they don't just go through the entire site and give you a noncompliance list to fix. It would seem to be a lot more efficient for everyone.

However, they don't do things out of spite, and they aren't trying to annoy you. They do have limits, and if you have a site that's beyond what they are comfortable with, they'll simply tell you that right up front. What they're trying to do is ensure that, once your site is ready to be submitted to Visa, it will go through without any problems. They may be picky, but from what I understand, it's pretty unusual for a site to be rejected by Visa after CCBill compliance has approved it, and that's to everyone's benefit.

What do you know about getting your own merchant account directly with visa and not having to mess with them at all? Personally I would rather deal right up to the source, and in this case its Visa. :$$$:

you don't deal with visa directly if you have your own merchant account. you deal with the acquiring bank.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

What do you know about getting your own merchant account directly with visa and not having to mess with them at all? Personally I would rather deal right up to the source, and in this case its Visa. :$$$:

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Then would you need Ccbill at all? Or could you just pay a company to manage the members lists ECT, and not have to pay Ccbill or really anyone on a % of my sales. I am sure I would have to pay something to Visa/bank like 5-8% I would think would be cool LOL :signhere:

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Then would you need Ccbill at all? Or could you just pay a company to manage the members lists ECT, and not have to pay Ccbill or really anyone on a % of my sales. I am sure I would have to pay something to Visa/bank like 5-8% I would think would be cool LOL :signhere:

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You wouldn't need ccbill, but you'd have to do all your own fraud screening, or else use Netbilling, who will take a % of your sales. Additionally, you're totally at the mercy of the acquiring bank... which could drop you at any time, in some cases without notice. And... merchant accounts for membership sites, PARTICULARLY twink membership sites are very difficult to get. You have to get through the compliance department of the acquiring bank, which in many cases will be far more conservative than the IPSP (CCBill or Paycom). And, from what I've heard, most acquiring banks want a minimum of $50,000-$100,000/month in processing, and you pay the discount rate based on that minimum, whether or not you hit it.

Honestly, we've considered going with a direct merchant account, but even if we did, we'd still have Paycom and CCBill as backups... you can bet that at any given time, they have at least two or three (if not more) acquiring banks just in case one suddenly changes their rules.

$50,000-$100,000/month god man that’s allot of money, it would be hard to even find enough content to buy with that, and in one month or two and you would have about all of it. The only way I can see how too make money like that is a huge numbers of affiliates promoting sites they really like. What % would you say of gay adult webmasters are making even 25,000+ a month, personally I would say about 50-100 maybe in the world. I wish I could make that much, but I guess that is up to selling your sites to affiliates.


Is Paycom cool, are they out of the US? They more friendly would you say to twink sites, I really do not know much about them. I really do like having a overseas processor for now, this daily changing situation from the us processors makes me nervous. You know when they change a rule next time it will go after twink sites I bet, we are the easiest witch-hunt for them.

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Originally Posted by boyfunk

You wouldn't need ccbill, but you'd have to do all your own fraud screening, or else use Netbilling, who will take a % of your sales. Additionally, you're totally at the mercy of the acquiring bank... which could drop you at any time, in some cases without notice. And... merchant accounts for membership sites, PARTICULARLY twink membership sites are very difficult to get. You have to get through the compliance department of the acquiring bank, which in many cases will be far more conservative than the IPSP (CCBill or Paycom). And, from what I've heard, most acquiring banks want a minimum of $50,000-$100,000/month in processing, and you pay the discount rate based on that minimum, whether or not you hit it.

Honestly, we've considered going with a direct merchant account, but even if we did, we'd still have Paycom and CCBill as backups... you can bet that at any given time, they have at least two or three (if not more) acquiring banks just in case one suddenly changes their rules.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

What % would you say of gay adult webmasters are making even 25,000+ a month, personally I would say about 50-100 maybe in the world. I wish I could make that much, but I guess that is up to selling your sites to affiliates.

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I suspect there are more than 100, but probably not more than 500 who do over $50,000 worldwide on the gay side... $25,000/month really isn't that much ($6250/week)... and there are tons on the straight side who do much more.

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Is Paycom cool, are they out of the US? They more friendly would you say to twink sites, I really do not know much about them. I really do like having a overseas processor for now, this daily changing situation from the us processors makes me nervous. You know when they change a rule next time it will go after twink sites I bet, we are the easiest witch-hunt for them.

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For the LAST time (hopefully) IT IS NOT THE PROCESSORS WHO HAVE THE PROBLEM, and they probably WON'T go after twink sites next; CCBill and Paycom have both backed away from extreme content (rape, torture, scat, etc) and those sorts of things, as Visa has said they won't process or the Justice department has indicated they are targeting those sites. CCBill and Paycom have never done anything to restrict marketing of twink sites.

And, in case you still don't get it, Paycom is no more or less "friendly" than CCBill; both the CCBill and Paycom compliance departments are simply reviewing a site to ensure that it meets Visa regulations, and Visa rules are exactly the same for Paycom and for CCBill. The both have their annoyances, but their compliance departments are there to ensure that when the site gets to Visa, it passes through compliance without a hitch.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I see that man, but with all respect that was not an answer. Why should I trust that I will not wake up one day and a hold will be placed on my account or the years I spend building up a URL will be wasted. I really just believe your service is on the edge with issues like this, and I do not want to be the first to fall off. Preempting possible rule chances are ok as a canary in the mine kinda thing, but not really what I want for a twink site. :baby:

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Wow Maxpower - You are as paraniod as hell - Hmm, what if in 5 years the word "sex" is banned.

What a silly thread you have started.

Maxpower, I can't see how you get anything done in a day. All you do is post on this board. It seems like most of the posts are from you and you reply to your own postings more then others reply.

Thanks to Boyfunk for explaining the CCbill process to me. That explains why I was continuing to get turned down even after making compliance changes to my site.
But, alas, I was finally approved by CCBill. I am still a little concerned, though.
I have Japanese style artwork on my website (Anime style). This style tends to have characters with huge eyes and small bodies. Also, with Gay couples, there is usually one large man and one small one.
CCBill said that some of these images looked like underage boys, because they were small.
I'm hoping this won't be a problem in the future, because I can't tell which ones they would think are underage and which ones they wouldn't. It's just not that obvious.
Anyway, do you suggest using both CCBill and Paycom?
Can you use two different companies at the same time?
Thanks,
azura blu

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Originally Posted by azurablu9

Anyway, do you suggest using both CCBill and Paycom?
Can you use two different companies at the same time?
Thanks,
azura blu

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You definitely can, but if you're counting on having a lot of traffic from affiliates, you'll need software to handle cascading billing and affiliate payout, and that gets pricey. MPA3 and NATS are the most commonly used ones, there are definitely others, but if your goal is to grow a very large affilaite program, I would recommend one of these, as they are both established names and respected by affilates.

For the moment, until you build up some traffic, it might be simpler to stay with ccbill as your only biller.

Thanks for the advice. As my business grows, I'll definitely want to be set up for affiliate networking. Do you know if they make that software for Apple computers too? It's so hard to find stuff like that for Apple.
Anyway, for right now, I'll be happy to just get the website up and running to a point where I can start accepting members...and maybe start making enough $ to pay rent.:$$$:
This is all totally new to me, so any and all advice is greatly welcomed.
Cheers,
azura blu

The affiliate software is totally web-based. You'll do everything through your web browser, so it won't matter what computer you're using to access it.

I’ve read throw all the threads here, but what everyone seems to have missed is, It’s not Visa, or Ccbill, but the US government putting pressure on them. The US government has everyone running scared and keeping everyone not sure of what’s going to come.
But come on, banning words! Are books next?
If the word twink gets banned, then I see it as you have to change the name of your site, or move out of the USA, and become lets say Canadian. It’s just going to make Euro web sites rich.

~~The affiliate software is totally web-based. You'll do everything through your web browser, so it won't matter what computer you're using to access it.~~

Thanks Chip (sorry, I got your name wrong in my last email). That's good to know.

As for the idea that the word "twink" will be banned, they have already banned words like "pre-teen". So, banning words isn't a new thing.
If the word "twink" becomes associated with underage exploitation, it could possibly be banned too.
And, though the Government is the root of these restrictions, I do believe that some companies are more strict than others.

Someone mentioned off-shore 3rd party processing. Does anyone have any info on that? Is it safe?

Cheers,
azura blu