Do I have to Have Ccbill?

Chad,

I am not sure why me and you are the few people who actually think in terms of risk management. Is it that I always wanted to be a lawyer and am actually studying for the LSAT. Or is it that I have a math degree and just think in numbers a lot.

By speading your risk (which itself is a good thing) you always make more signups (which is a good thing). Hell, in an ideal world I would have 5 processors cranking out sales.

Max,

On a more serious note, you also need to realize that the signup page also affects conversions. Some companies allow greater flexibility than others. Two part signup pages are a wonderful thing. Some companies allow you to play with the page to a greater degree once you have proved yourself.

I still have a $900 check from Vortel. It bounced twice. You can have it if you want. Actually, it's 886.47. My bad.

PS. Does anyone know how to change you damn address w/ Epoch?

God that was a long post man, but ya I will try to do anything I can to help out affiliates, that is the whole point of all this ccbill stuff, viewers really do not care what processors you have. I am sure a very few do, but I could make up more sales with the flexibility other processors would offer. If I want to open my new sites I need some support from affiliates so I can spend more time just creating new products for them to promote.

As far as you not liking twink sites, well this well be a theme in all the sites I create. The first one will be a twink action site, then I will make like 4 other variations on other twink/frat themes. Its really hard to find any big affiliate program that does not have a twink site to promote and that is what most of my traffic wants.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Ok, first I am in a bitchy mood. Been up all nite with php and dealing with wordpress.

Max, don't know much about you. I have been out of industry for a year or so playing poker. I guess I don't know how serious you are.

He asked a real newbie question and still didn't get the right answer.

IF you are serious about the success of your program and websites and plan on being in the business a long time then signing up with Ccbill is a no bariner. You shouldn't even have to ask that quaestion.

But just signing up with Ccbill is a mistake as well.

You really should sign up with Ccbill and Epoch. In a perfect system you should have in place a program that spreads out the members between the two or uses one as a backup in case the other doesnt get the members. It's risk management 101. As well as catching a signup that one may reject for whatever reason.

You should also have in place some geo tracking revenue model as well to capture foreign traffic.

You are worried about setup fees and mentioned you want your own merchant account. Do you even know what many banks want for a deposit processing adult? And if you do you still have to deal with scrubbing unless you go with a company like net billing, which charges fees ontop of the fees you pay the merchant bank.

Verotel bounced a $900 check I got. IMHO anyone relying on them exclusively for their business is not in this for the long haul.

This is a very personal issue for me as I started in early 1999 when porn was still a goldmine. I lost 1$4,000 a month in recurring icome overnite when DMR went out of business. You may not even know who they were.

Even practicing what I thought was proper risk management in both who i used as a processor and sponsors I chose, I lost about $6,000 a month in recurring income when I bill did whatever they are still in the process of doing.

I am not saying that CCbill or Epoch will go bust tomorrow. But even though Epoch now has a good reputation, three or four years ago, they went through a transition and were in trouble. Who knows what tomorrow will bring for any of these comapnies.

The more processors and processing streams (checks, 900, dialers, geo tracking) you have in place the better your risk management is and the more revenue you will make.

Goto any big webmaster program and click the join page to their sites. See how may use vortel. There is a reason why you wont find many that do.

On another note, does that gay market really need ANOTHER twink site? About the only twink site I will market is boy fun collection because the members just stay forever. Or maybe a new pay per signup twink site when it first hits the market (first 2 months), after that the conversions are so bad its not worth it even to a $40 per signup site.

Despite what some have said in another post, as you grow you want to be able to go after the big fish. You want the big fish to promote you. The more money you make for them the more that they will make for you. You will make more money for them by offering them a solid business/procesing model.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place with all this, if I want affiliates I have to offer what they trust/like, even if I think I could really make more sales with a less rule oriented processor myself.

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Less rule orientated processor. When you goto casino do you play Blackjack or Russian roulette.

And with vertol how are you going to offer deals over 50%?

What if you want to change a tour and let webmasters market both tours?

The list goes on with them......

How old is this check man? I will take it :) I have been paid on time every time for over a year now from them, so if the check is not too old I think I could get my back to cash it.

I am note sure about having 5 processors on my join page, or how that would work with the affiliates, if lets say ccbill affiliate sends me the traffic its not good to try to push another processor on their viewers and cheating them out of a sale. And if I make a separate version for each processor, how many affiliates are really going to join anything but this ccbill stuff maybe what 8%?

I think after my system grows I will have to invest in a more independent/trust worthy way of processing, but until then I have to go with the flow even though I personally have some reservations about it.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Chad,

I am not sure why me and you are the few people who actually think in terms of risk management. Is it that I always wanted to be a lawyer and am actually studying for the LSAT. Or is it that I have a math degree and just think in numbers a lot.

By speading your risk (which itself is a good thing) you always make more signups (which is a good thing). Hell, in an ideal world I would have 5 processors cranking out sales.

Max,

On a more serious note, you also need to realize that the signup page also affects conversions. Some companies allow greater flexibility than others. Two part signup pages are a wonderful thing. Some companies allow you to play with the page to a greater degree once you have proved yourself.

I still have a $900 check from Vortel. It bounced twice. You can have it if you want. Actually, it's 886.47. My bad.

PS. Does anyone know how to change you damn address w/ Epoch?

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Its really hard to find any big affiliate program that does not have a twink site to promote and that is what most of my traffic wants.

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That's my point, you are competing with companies that offer $40 per signup, NATS billing (which = higer conversions), and really good tours (finally!) and actually now decent content. The big boys have got spanked in the past, but they learned.

I think from my experience, I found that twink conversion is down, but twink sites retain members longer than some other niches. (depending on the site of course).


Just remember what you said - You are competing with the big programs that almost all have twink content.

And after the justin thing settles, and the cobra thing, and another replucian attornet general get elected there may be only granps porn on the net until some group (maybe medicare files a lawsuit against that). Who knows.

But I am a hypocrite. I am creating ethnictwinks.com as well uncutfreshmen. Although uncutfreshmen.com is very softcore.

I admire you on creating a paysite (which I believe you have) and NOT putting in an affiliate program right away. It's a smart move. If I was you, I would set up with ccbil and put it on the site with the same traffic and see what it does before you release to affiliates.

Can I ask you what site it is?

thx

Well when I said personally I was talking about “me” making more sales. With total freedom of text and themes I can really do allot, Teen Boys sells better than Twink Boys every day ECT

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Less rule orientated processor. When you goto casino do you play Blackjack or Russian roulette.

And with vertol how are you going to offer deals over 50%?

What if you want to change a tour and let webmasters market both tours?

The list goes on with them......

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I was somewhat joking. about the five. Since there are only 2 really.

You need NATS for that. Its a program that allows multiple processors with one code. If one fails (say Ccbil it will try to get the sale w/ epoch) or If you see a drop in one for a certain period of day (epoch slow maybe you can switch to the other and vice versa) It allows you to spread out your signups. If one comapny goes bankrupt, then you still got the other.

you have aim?

aim abostonboy2003

http://xycash.com/programframe.php

Something like that is really good.

I am making some twink sites, but I am going in the other direction I am making mostly really hardcore twink sites. I do plan to open some twink site you do not see everyday, and I do have a good rep with my viewers as far as twink stuff goes so its just natural for me to do that.

I know I will be competing with some of the bigger sites, but I can live on what I sell myself, so I will give back more to my affiliates than they do. Like you said before the first few months this site should sell like hot-cakes, and after like 2-3 months I will be opening another site.

I do not even want to think about “justin” I do not give a shit about that stupid shit, I for one am not going to change what I am doing cuzz some 17 year old now feels bad about all the 50 year old cocks he sucked.

Ya it will be up like 1-2 week with the new graphics while I am changing it over to ccbill, so i will see what it does, but man even if it does no more sales “I really do not expect a processor to help much with sales at all” I would think it will do about the same number regardless, this processor thing really has to do with affiliate not sales.

I would post the site, but its under construction now, no real point ya know. It will not look like it does now at all in a week or 2, as soon as I can get it changed over I will post it trust me LOL.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

That's my point, you are competing with companies that offer $40 per signup, NATS billing (which = higer conversions), and really good tours (finally!) and actually now decent content. The big boys have got spanked in the past, but they learned.

I think from my experience, I found that twink conversion is down, but twink sites retain members longer than some other niches. (depending on the site of course).


Just remember what you said - You are competing with the big programs that almost all have twink content.

And after the justin thing settles, and the cobra thing, and another replucian attornet general get elected there may be only granps porn on the net until some group (maybe medicare files a lawsuit against that). Who knows.

But I am a hypocrite. I am creating ethnictwinks.com as well uncutfreshmen. Although uncutfreshmen.com is very softcore.

I admire you on creating a paysite (which I believe you have) and NOT putting in an affiliate program right away. It's a smart move. If I was you, I would set up with ccbil and put it on the site with the same traffic and see what it does before you release to affiliates.

Can I ask you what site it is?

thx

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Ya man I know about NAST and the 20,000$ I really like clickman more, but that is a bridge I will cross later on. As I see it I kind of have to go with this Ccbill stuff anyway so I might as well start off the new system with it. That is what most webmasters expect and really think for the first year or some I will just offer the one processor until I can get set-up with all that stats/other processors BS

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

I was somewhat joking. about the five. Since there are only 2 really.

You need NATS for that. Its a program that allows multiple processors with one code. If one fails (say Ccbil it will try to get the sale w/ epoch) or If you see a drop in one for a certain period of day (epoch slow maybe you can switch to the other and vice versa) It allows you to spread out your signups. If one comapny goes bankrupt, then you still got the other.

you have aim?

aim abostonboy2003

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Sean,

For whatever reason, you've been continually bashing CCBill for months, talking about how they rip people off and have all these onerous rules and this and that.

Well guess what? They are one of only 2 processors that are serious players in the US market. The reason those two are still around is because they are both shrewd enough and cautious enough to navigate the complex and sometimes byzantine issues associated with card processing... and I don't just mean fraud and compliance, but the increasing security regulations/practicess that the card associations require you to maintain as far as server security, constantly changing policies by the merchant banks, all that sort of stuff. If you actually tried to get and maintain your own merchant account, you'd realize that it's not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. And that's why CCBill charges what it does. Not to mention... finding a merchant bank that will process for a twink site is nearly impossible in the first place; finding one that will approve a sithe where you insist on using iffy terms that could imply underage... you will find that to be impossible. In that way, Paycom and CCBill actually have *more* flexibility because they are assuming much of the risk that the banks would otherwise have to take. A bank won't give a rats ass about you because you don't have deep pockets to cover the enormous Visa fines if something goes wrong.

I don't hear anyone else -- including people that do more in a week than you'll ever do in a year -- complaining of being ripped off. CCBill is successful precisely *because* of their conservative philosophy. Are they profitable? Of course. But they also keep a large reserve and are very conservative fiscally, and can afford to absorb the shocks that have pushed most of the other players into oblivion. Same deal with Paycom. In short, you get what you pay for.

Now, as far as billing solutions... seems to me you've asked the same question about a dozen times in different ways in different threads, you just don't like the answers you're getting, so you somehow think that if you ask in a different way, you'll get a different answer. Ain't going to happen.

If you simply looked around instead of arguing with the people who are giving you the advice, you'd see that almost all of the major programs (gay and straight) have a couple things in common:

-- Nearly 100% have CCBill as one of their processors, or as their only processor.

-- A large percentage have cascading billing. Of those who do, pretty much all of them are running either NATS or MPA-3. If they are using cascading billing, an overwhelming majority are running CCBill, Paycom, a check processor or two, and *maybe* Verotel or one of the offbrand billers.

So... if all of the largest programs are doing that, and everyone is suggesting that, THERE IS A GOOD REASON FOR IT. One of the things I learned long ago is to listen to people who know more than I do. (This came after *not* listening and making a lot of expensive mistakes because I thought I knew better.) Perhaps you're simply too young or arrogant to be able to do that, but if you can bring yourself to simply make use of all the free advice you're getting, you will definitely save yourself a lot of time, hassle, and headache.

I'm thinking right now of all the people who were defending n-e-o-v-a a few months or a year ago. It was *always* shady. Granted, it got shut down related more to CP charges than to processor problems... but if you are serious about running a business as a business, you must be willing to think about and appropriately manage the risks associated with your business. Right now, I don't see you doing that... using risky terms in your tour, arguing about the value of using an offshore processor that may be having financial problems... and if you don't change that approach, you may find that your aggressive philosophy about risk management comes to bite you in the ass. I think the folks here are just trying to help you avoid those mistakes.

Not like you'll actually listen to or read any of the above, but maybe someone else who is lurking will get some value out of it.

Well man for right now I kind of have to use Ccbill, but I do not see this as a long term thing. They do charge to much and have some other problems, but until I am ready to have my own merchant account and stats program I have to do what I have to do no matter how much I do not like it.

As far as asking the same question in different ways well, that is something I do from time to time, and does work 50% of the time.

I am looking at this CCbill thing as a temporary solution, I would rather pay the 7% than 15% and hopefully when my volume increases enough like intensecash.com has just done I will drop them for a better deal.

Obviously you didn't read (or understand) my post, but nevermind.

Was kinda a long post man LOL I think really reading all this is what happened to Bass’s eyes :borg:

I do think like you said I have to start with them if I want to build affiliates, but this would not be what I would call a final solution, its just yet another step. It is going to be hard to take the next step in processors, but personally I will be really happy when I can move on.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Chad,

I am not sure why me and you are the few people who actually think in terms of risk management. Is it that I always wanted to be a lawyer and am actually studying for the LSAT. Or is it that I have a math degree and just think in numbers a lot.

By speading your risk (which itself is a good thing) you always make more signups (which is a good thing). Hell, in an ideal world I would have 5 processors cranking out sales.

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I look at selling porn as a business like any other. Just because it is selling a fantasy doesn't chage the fact that it is a business that requires investments in time, money, and effort. Financial investment, a business plan, budgeting, risk managment, proper accounting, adhering to the rules of the game and putting in more effort than a 9 to 5 job are requirements for an entreprenuer to be successful.
My background includes bachelors degrees in accounting and economics before going to law school, which was a huge investment in time, effort and money. I took a risk and stayed out of the job market for 3 years to put myself through law school, but that was a wise investment for me. I would not recommend it for everybody as it was very hard and over 25% of my class dropped out before the beginning of the 2nd semester. The failure rate of law students is high, plus the suicide, divorce and substance abuse rates in the legal profession are high as well. {luckily I got myself into treatment for my alcoholism early on in my career and have now been sober over 7 years}

In the time I have been involved in the adult industry, I have seen it become more professional--you see more companies hiring accountants, lawyers, MBA's and other professionals simply because the industry is becoming more business-like. You can start a new company and run it like a mom and pop store but eventually the business will need to act like a real business.

There are always risks, including the risk that the business will fail. Diversifying risk is part of giving yourself a better chance of survival in this increasingly competitive industry. Not everybody is cut out to run their own company! Judge Smales said it so eloquently in Caddyshack "Well, the world needs ditch diggers too!"