What Is The Most Damaging Thing In The Industry To Date?

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Originally Posted by longboardjim

these days you can almost assemble a models complete photo shoot by visiting a couple of thumbnail galleries so what's the point of joining a site?
i agree there needs to be a tighter "reign" on content as well as restrictions on how the content is used ( first 20 pictures samples only/etc.) but that seems to be non-existent with some content providers interested in mass-sales.
i still believe "original/exclusive" photo/videography will "stand-out" , and regardless of how much "free-content" is out there will hold it's own in the adult marketplace.

sincerely ~ ..."you get what you pay for"...

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This one is so easy to answer. The point of joining a site is to save time and not have to visit a couple of thumbnail galleries to download a poor selection of small compressed images. To get the videos in full length.

But if you're saying that paysites don't offer the quality that a TGP site does then who's fault is it the surfer does not want to pay? A paysite should be offering 30 days of value for a 30 day membership fee. Say 50 videos and 100 sets minimum of couples and solo action.

As for this "original/exclusive" photo/videography will "stand-out" if any site owner can pick up a camera and shoot to my level then he really will be in the money. But if he's going to be learning photography and pornography while trying to manage models good luck to him getting any quality out. If it were that easy how come the content providers struggle? And just because a few exceptional guys can do it does not mean anyone can.

If he can compete with the guys who do it as a sole profession then I go back to my original stance, you are not paying them enough. Which thinking about it I think is the case. You have one guy who thinks it should be sold for a $150 a set, is that a set and video, or just a set. Yet does not want the set to be sold too often. Do the maths and work out the profit.

Paco AGREED. These guys have done more damage to this industry than anyone. And I include all those who thought they could put up a website that will make $1,000s for under $20K. Let down a member once and he will forgive you, let him down more than once and he will not.

the point of joining a paysite rather than going to galleries?

1. bigger better quality pics. our paysite member area pics are on average 200k and they are shown at 1024x768. no tgp gallery has pics even half that big.

2. a full set of pics isn't 40 or less in most sites - it's over 100. most galleries average 15 - 24 pics, so seeing a couple galleries doesn't really give you the full set.

3. not only do you get the full set of full sized high quality pics in the paysite, you also get the video that goes with the pics. and since the average movie gallery offers 1 minute total of video, and the topbucks sites, for example, have 30 minute videos, i don't think a movie gallery is going to really satisfy.

4. and remember, with a paysite if you like the style and quality of the one movie and pic set, you will have dozens more in the same theme, style and quality.

it's knowing this that made my gallery marketing what it was - i know and believe that the surfer who likes the content on my galleries will truly like the paysite i am sending the surfers to. that's why i only used one sponsor per gallery - the content and the page were all about that niche or site and the fact you could get lots more - NOT of some generic bs like thousands of pics, but of the actual style or niche i was offering.

paul's site is all his style of photography and of models. he's been in the thick of it for years and has his own special style of glamour. if you like 20 measly pics on a gallery, think of how much you'll like that type of 18 - 21 year old girl in his style when there are hundreds of them all in one place!

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Originally Posted by longboardjim

these days you can almost assemble a models complete photo shoot by visiting a couple of thumbnail galleries so what's the point of joining a site?
i agree there needs to be a tighter "reign" on content as well as restrictions on how the content is used ( first 20 pictures samples only/etc.) but that seems to be non-existent with some content providers interested in mass-sales.
i still believe "original/exclusive" photo/videography will "stand-out" , and regardless of how much "free-content" is out there will hold it's own in the adult marketplace.

sincerely ~ ..."you get what you pay for"...

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Originally Posted by basschick

paul's site is all his style of photography and of models. he's been in the thick of it for years and has his own special style of glamour. if you like 20 measly pics on a gallery, think of how much you'll like that type of 18 - 21 year old girl in his style when there are hundreds of them all in one place!

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And I'm not the only site to do this. Offer the surfer value for money, think of the member first, affiliate second. Think CONTENT is KING, traffic is his queen. And you to will see what a powerful friend free porn can be.

These rules apply if you're selling straight, gay or one legged Chinese midgets. :P

agreed , the point of joining a site is for better quality photo/videography

jim

Firstly, The Adult Industry is Growing as far as revenue is concerned.

With that in mind, it is not the amount of free content avaialable. Any surfer who is going to buy, will buy. Period. No matter how much free porn they get. Unless of course you are giving them the full 40 min video. But even then Bit Torrents sites are a great way to make sales. They watch one video (full 30 min), see your content, fall in love, get bored watching over and over, and will come back and buy a membership because they trust you.

It's like Basschick said you can get free samples all the time.

Regulations have HELPED this industry. Period.

About a year after I started the gov. tried to pass COPA. Everytime the gov. tries to regulate any aspect of our industry, they risk losing and having a law like COPA go to the highest court and fail. The failure of COPA has helped us.

Everyone was running scared with VISA. What did VISA regulations accomplish? One thing - we recognize porn as part of our business and here are the rules you have to play by. It got rid of a lot of webmasters that shouldn't be running paysites in the first place.

We ran scared of 2257. Even parts of that are tied down in lega battles.

The new labeling system is an attempt to get COPA back as the courts ruled earlier that the current filtering systems were adequate. But the fact is even this bill is fundamently flawed just as COPA.

Even though we live in a Republican controlled country. There are so MANY free speech precedences set before that these regulations will be tied up in courts for years. The first ammendment is more powerful than many webmasters would believe. And IF this new bill fails in the courts, the gov. is back to square one. Another victory for us.

Credit Card processinf and revenue streams are an issue. Basically we as webmasters are relying on two main processors. That is scary. DMR and IBILL were once darlings, just as Ccbill and Epoch are today. And let's not firget Epoch's problems a few years back.

The INDUSTRY has changed as far as content. And I know personally that many content providers are feeling it. Broadband is in and photos and feeds are becomming less valuable. Surfers who have been screwed by crappy sites (as Bass Chick mentioned), want exclusive content, videos, and DVD's.

I would also like to suggest that they want a good experience. And we in the porn have embraced technologies like DRM before they have actually matured.

If I can go pay $10 on a music service for a DRM protected CD and burn it to a cd and play it on my regular cd player. Why can't I as a surfer go and download a DRM protected video and make a dvd? The technology is not there for video.

When I ran my paysite I always linked to tools that allowed my members to make vcds of the videos I produced. Retention was amazing.

So many sites offer so little content in the niche they advertise, but offer all the plug-ins, old pics, low quality vids (that many even protect w/ DRM), and just a bad experience that it's sad.

If i get one more unable to authorize licence from a porn site I will flip.

So what is really hurting the industry. Considering the amount of money being spent on porn is NOT going down, it's just spread out more. And my answer would be we are reaching market saturation. The big are getting bigger and the small are getting smaller.

The cost of entry for a new webmaster has gone up. It's a more coporate structure. You need to treat it like a business and NOT a hobby as you could do in the past. You need a business plan, goals, fresh ideas, and the willingness to think outside the box.

As I said before it's webmasters who are our own worst enemies.

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Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And I'm not the only site to do this. Offer the surfer value for money, think of the member first, affiliate second. Think CONTENT is KING, traffic is his queen. And you to will see what a powerful friend free porn can be.

These rules apply if you're selling straight, gay or one legged Chinese midgets. :P

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Think of the member first. GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! I can't agree more. Bend over backwards, do flips, do whatever it takes. Give them a WOW factor.

I think you guys are missing the point, these are people that would join a members site that are telling you they get all most everything they need now for FREE. We all know they would get more if they pay, but they are saying they do not need too to see what will get them though the day. Free samples are ok, but if they gave free samples of everything in the grocery store 24/7 how many people would just hang out their to get a free meal.

These people that are telling you this are viewers and I am sure their are 100 of thousands of other viewers that think the same way they do. If you want to ignore what they are saying I guess its up to you but they are telling you the truth. Just go to gay.com and ask people if they look at porn, then ask if they belong to members site, I am sure you will find most people look at porn all the time and almost never pay for any of it. Ask them why they do not pay, and you are going to get “why should I can just go to so and so site and get what I need” just like the people here are trying to tell you.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I think you guys are missing the point, these are people that would join a members site that are telling you they get all most everything they need now for FREE. We all know they would get more if they pay, but they are saying they do not need too to see what will get them though the day. Free samples are ok, but if they gave free samples of everything in the grocery store 24/7 how many people would just hang out their to get a free meal.

These people that are telling you this are viewers and I am sure their are 100 of thousands of other viewers that think the same way they do. If you want to ignore what they are saying I guess its up to you but they are telling you the truth. Just go to gay.com and ask people if they look at porn, then ask if they belong to members site, I am sure you will find most people look at porn all the time and almost never pay for any of it. Ask them why they do not pay, and you are going to get “why should I can just go to so and so site and get what I need” just like the people here are trying to tell you.

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The adult industry is growing. Period. Free content sells memberships. Quality content retains it.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

As I said before it's webmasters who are our own worst enemies.

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Very true, we are the our own worse threat. People disappointing the members then blaming free porn as the reason surfers will not sign up.

I just worked out why ratios were so much better 6-7 years ago, it's not because of free porn. It's because we had not ripped off so many surfers and they trusted us.

maxpower free porn does not give what a quality pay site does end of story. Maybe it gives what 80% of the sites out there give, but then who's to blame for that?

If you believe free porn does give what a quality paysite gives, then show us the free porn site with 200 good porn and quality videos and 500 good porn and quality image sets in it.

And if you think a site can survive today with less good content, unless it's in a very narrow niche, you are sadly the problem.

You know what would be the very best thing for this industry today. It would be that on the join page the website has to state very clearly what the surfer is getting for his $30. Number of videos, image sets, sizes and the tour give good examples of them.

Yes it would mean the death of some sites, but think of it from the surfers POV and from those who can compete in 2006.

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Originally Posted by Lee

Was just wondering what everyone thought the single most damaging thing to the adult industry was to date? Regulation? Laws? Processing? Content? Or something else?

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And why are some of you "amazed" and people today still buy website memberships and/or DVDs? Ummm.... people go and pay $10 to see crappy Hollywood movies in the movie theater. If you ran a retaurant that sold $8 gourmet cheeseburgers, would you throw a fit if McDonalds came into town and started selling their 99 cent burgers? (Or would you just goto the city council and chase them out of your turf?)

Should biotech drug companies be allowed to keep their patents on their drugs forever? After all, like you guys, they spent a lot of money creating their product.

You have chosen to run a business in an extremely competitive marketplace. I find it interesting that operators don't seem to realize that this competition includes, and will always include, free porn.

I find this "tug of war" between entertainment producers and their consumers using their products interesting.

It's like with DRM. Producers think their movie products should be as sacred as a United States passport. My passport is not really "mine" It's issued to me as a United States citizen, and when it expires, the government gets it back. And any act of spindling or mutilating the document puts me under the thumb of federal criminal penal codes.

I never really own a passport, like I should never really own anything I want to watch on my laptop?

Steve

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Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Very true, we are the our own worse threat. People disappointing the members then blaming free porn as the reason surfers will not sign up.

I just worked out why ratios were so much better 6-7 years ago, it's not because of free porn. It's because we had not ripped off so many surfers and they trusted us.

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Paul,

I have to disagree on that one. 6-7 years ago sites were ripping people off like crazy. Remember Xpics? The free trials? The multiple sites you joined not even knowing.

I think ratios are down because there are more choices.

Our whole model is based on free porn.

surfer sees free porn -> clicks links -> visits sites -> makes purchase decision.

Without free porn our industry would be dead. Sure we could all do the SE game. But with all the sites out there, Clicks would cost as much as morgage companies are paying. $5 or more....

Those who bitch about free porn are the ones that don't have their banners above most of the free porn out there.

If free porn was so bad, all the big sponsors wouldnt have 2,500 hosted galleries each and 1,000s of pics and vids of free content.

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Originally Posted by desslock

It's like with DRM. Producers think their movie products should be as sacred as a United States passport. My passport is not really "mine" It's issued to me as a United States citizen, and when it expires, the government gets it back. And any act of spindling or mutilating the document puts me under the thumb of federal criminal penal codes.

I never really own a passport, like I should never really own anything I want to watch on my laptop?

Steve

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Hahaha.

DRM in porn is not developed enough. As I said I can buy a $10 cd from a music service that is protected and download it and burn to Cd and play on a regular Cd player. Can't do that with DRM on the web.

When I ran my site and fimed my own videos, I linked to the tools where they could burn vcd's. Members got new movies. They stayed and thanked me for it.

I just love the error, unable to authorize bla bla bla. Then when you goto microsofts error page it recommends re-installing Media Player. OMG. What a nice experience you are giving your member. Having them re install anything microsoft only to find out the authorization server is busy or down.

Let me renew for another six months!!!! LMFAO!

I think as highly as DRM as I do DMR. And you have to have been in the biz a few years to understand that one.. And chances are you got some gray hairs just from that alone.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Paul,

I have to disagree on that one. 6-7 years ago sites were ripping people off like crazy. Remember Xpics? The free trials? The multiple sites you joined not even knowing.

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I'm not saying we were more honest in those days, I'm saying there were more novice surfers to rip off. One of the many complaints by webmasters is the surfer today is more educated.

Which I'm sure means, "less gullible".

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Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I'm not saying we were more honest in those days, I'm saying there were more novice surfers to rip off. One of the many complaints by webmasters is the surfer today is more educated.

Which I'm sure means, "less gullible".

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OK. I misunderstood you....

But i also think it has to do with more choices as well...

We are hitting a saturation point.

Some of you guys are ridiculously out of touch with viewers, and others are more interested in bragging about the “quality” of their work as if we all just got our content from them the problem would be solved. If you are not willing to talk to viewers about this and see what they are really saying then your just blowing hot air. The FACT is that most viewers do not feel they need to pay for anything anymore, and I will say it again for the hard headed.

Everyone knows they can get better content if they pay for it, but they DO NOT NEED IT TO GET OFF. I will say it again because I am sure you still do not understand, most of your viewers do not need all these super high quality images/vides to jerk-off, people are not just offer 20-30 images from a set for free they are getting the whole sets. They can find more images and 1-2 minute videos that will get them off for free that in about any members site in the world. Try asking some of them, instead of just making up allot of self-indulgent stuff.

Really right now my sales are good, and my retention is good as well I am expanding my program to include new sites every 3-4 months, but their is a BIG Pink Elephant in the room that most of you do not want to see for one reason or another.

I really do not think I or really anyone but the Gov. and maybe the studios could start to change the trends, but even the studios are losing control now and will be much more marginalized in the future because of some really shot-sightedness. Some of you are fond of talking about the supply and demand permissible, but if their is a HUGE and ever increasing free supply how much do you then think demand for paid content will become? OMG