Anyone Try This Billing Option?

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Originally Posted by Lee

The same thing was said when i added the multi-month memberships that rebilled, i was told id get nothing but chargebacks from surfers when they started to get rebilled.

Almost 6 months on and i havent had a single chargeback from a multi-month membership sale and, rebills keep rolling in nicely.

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I remember this. And while chargebacks was an issue that came up... the main issue for me here was ethics. To each his own, right. But for me it is ethically wrong to rebill multimonth memberships. Granted we all make a nice living off of customers forgetting about their credit cards being billed month after month. However, they're seeing it month after month or at least could see it month after month if they look at their statement. Charging a customer again after 3 or 6 months go by is just wrong in my book. It would be totally different if you send an email that says click this link if you want to be rebilled, otherwise your membership would end on this date. As I said before there is reason why after your one year subscription to instict (or any other magazine) expires you have to contact them to continue it.

As for chargebacks? well i always get a chuckle when i hear webmasters say, oh i've never had a chargeback before. The fact is CB are an unavoidable reality with paysites. So either these webmasters are:
1. flat out lying
2. have no sales volume. i guess i can see someone doing one or two sales a week or perhaps per day on their paysite probably could go a very long time without getting a CB. But even still the day will come eventually.

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Originally Posted by djdez

As for chargebacks? well i always get a chuckle when i hear webmasters say, oh i've never had a chargeback before. The fact is CB are an unavoidable reality with paysites. So either these webmasters are:
1. flat out lying
2. have no sales volume. i guess i can see someone doing one or two sales a week or perhaps per day on their paysite probably could go a very long time without getting a CB. But even still the day will come eventually.

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I agree.

We do have chargebacks on regular monthly memberships but, as yet, we havent had a single on on a multi-month, even after they have rebilled.

Single month sales seem to chargeback on average (if they are going to) after the 3rd month, that also seems to be the general consensus with the guys at CCBill that i have spoken to about this issue.

The same is also true for memberships that retain past 3 months, anything longer than 3 months and i look at it as a nice bonus, i just had a CB about an hour ago from a member that rebilled for 6 months, rather than cancelling their membership though, he CB'd this months rebill, personally i think it would have been a lot easier for him to request a refund $0.02

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by djdez

I remember this. And while chargebacks was an issue that came up... the main issue for me here was ethics. To each his own, right. But for me it is ethically wrong to rebill multimonth memberships.

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There is nothing ethically wrong, in my eyes, with offering a recurring multiple month membership, when you've clearly informed them (at the very top of the billing page) of the type of account and the amount they should expect the next rebill to be.

Does this mean you are also against recurring trials?
If anything, this should be more unethical.

Certainly seems to be a hot topic. However isn't it rather similar to what AEN's do? I mean they sell you the basic plan, then keep trying to upgrade you to their platinum or gold plan. Still a member at month one vs month 5 does actually get more if you look at the whole amount and not what has been updated. Month 5 member gets what month 1 got, month 1 customer gets that plus the update amount, so in the whole he/she does actually get more.

Not sure though if a customer would go for the rise in prices.

my 2 cents :coffee:

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

... isn't it rather similar to what AEN's do? I mean they sell you the basic plan, then keep trying to upgrade you to their platinum or gold plan. Still a member at month one vs month 5 does actually get more if you look at the whole amount and not what has been updated. Month 5 member gets what month 1 got, month 1 customer gets that plus the update amount, so in the whole he/she does actually get more.

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What a fine man ... uh, example, I meant to say example :honest:

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Originally Posted by Paco

There is nothing ethically wrong, in my eyes, with offering a recurring multiple month membership, when you've clearly informed them (at the very top of the billing page) of the type of account and the amount they should expect the next rebill to be.

Does this mean you are also against recurring trials?
If anything, this should be more unethical.

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Ethics are like fingerprints. Everyone has their own set. And as time goes by our ethics change just like every other aspect of our lives. Heck, I used to be a bible thumpin self-righteious holy roller, now look at me. So, its possible that I may consider recurring 3 months. Though I highly doubt I would ever reconsider recurring 6 months or more.

To answer your question directly, I am certainly not against recurring trials. The issue is with the time period that goes by without seeing charges on your statement. If someone is charged for a 3 day membership and they forget about having to cancel, well thats on them. They really have no excuse if they can't remember what they signed up for 3-days ago. But heck 3 months or worse 6 months, its not inconceivable and most likely probably that someone will forget that its a recurring charge and they need to cancel.

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Originally Posted by Paco

abostonboy - as far as I am concerned, you are attacking, or you're threatening, Lee, merely because you do not like his hair-brainer-crack-smoking-how-fucking-drunk-is-he idear!
Hmm.

Don't like it = kewl.
Like it = cool.
Either way = yup, you guessed it ... kuh_oooooL !
Getting agro = NOT kewl, cool or kuh_oooool!

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I am not attacking. As Lee pointed out some of the ideas that I proposed on this board could lose GWW webmasters money. This one could as well. I am just stating my reasons why, which are much more than Lee's druken idea why it would work.

I think you'd make money on those subscriber that forgot they had a subscription

Updating monthly after a subscriber rebills via cms is shady and wouldn't be a secret much longer... then you'd get the hardcore porn subscribers that, out of spite, would do a 6 month cycle then charge back lol

i wonder what would happen if HBO applied this model? I mean they give away a free 2 week trial. Then you pay like 15 for so many channels. Every month they change about 50% of their programming to new programming. So in this model it would make sense to charge say an extra $5 a month. Pretty soon just HBO would cost as much as cable itself. 15 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + ..... + 5

Where do you stop?

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Originally Posted by Lee

I agree.

We do have chargebacks on regular monthly memberships but, as yet, we havent had a single on on a multi-month, even after they have rebilled.

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Under .5 is good .5-1 is scary, anything over 1 you should be drinking more.

But I am sure you ar at .01 on chargebacks.

I remember years ago, I joined a "Free" AVS. And not only did I have to agree to a trial membership to some over-priced crap paysite but they automatically signed you up to another trial on a second over-priced crap paysite. Hell, I didn't even know that I would be charged automatically. The stressed that the card info was just for age verification purposes. I assumed that I would be asked before I was charged for anything.

I had the sense that I was being scammed so I dug into the (very) fine print. I freaked when I finally figured out that I was going to be charged almost $80 for access to a "Free" AVS. None of the email confirmations were of any help on how to cancel but you can bet that they were loaded with plenty of upsell opportunities. Getting this sorted out as a newbie porn surfer was very confusing.

After frantically searching around on the 3rd and final day of the trial, I managed to scrape up a phone number for customer service for one of the 3 parts of the join process. I raged at them on the phone for being such a lousy bunch of scammers and vowed to sue them if I saw any charges on my account. If I had been aware of chargebacks at the time, I would have relished punishing them with that option instead. I'm scarred for life after that awful experience. Even after all of this time it makes me angry thinking about it.

Imo, any webmaster guilty of trying to deceive members with anything other than plain simple language on join pages or tries to crossell to another site deserves the worst they can get. And I put Lee's rebill price increase idea right up there with these other dishonest business practices.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I think you'd make money on those subscriber that forgot they had a subscription

Updating monthly after a subscriber rebills via cms is shady and wouldn't be a secret much longer... then you'd get the hardcore porn subscribers that, out of spite, would do a 6 month cycle then charge back lol

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I am sure lee's charge backs are low.

The text on his tours is so damn small you need glasses just to see what's inside.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

I am sure lee's charge backs are low.

The text on his tours is so damn small you need glasses just to see what's inside.

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he he

Has Lee even disclosed all the sites he's involved with yet? hhmmmm

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

I am sure lee's charge backs are low.

The text on his tours is so damn small you need glasses just to see what's inside.

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Chargebacks on Condom Cash are below 1% a month, thats all i care about as far as that goes.

Whether you personally like the tours i have on Condom Cash or not, doesnt really matter, does it? Its whether the SURFER likes the tours and joins the sites that matter, making both the affiliate and myself money in the process.

I guess you would rather see all the sites have reality style tours with multiple pages on them would you?

Ill give you clue, for free, i recently ran a test on our top converting site with a realty style tour, we lost 90% worth of sales in 48 hours when the tour changed to the reality style tour, within 1 hour of changing the tour back to how it was originally, sales started rolling in again, what does that tell you about the one page tours?

It tells me the most important thing of all, they sell and the surfers like them, perhaps if you had sent 1 hit to any of the sites you would also realize this instead of basing how well the program does on what you percieve as tours that dont sell.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Imo, any webmaster guilty of trying to deceive members with anything other than plain simple language on join pages or tries to crossell to another site deserves the worst they can get. And I put Lee's rebill price increase idea right up there with these other dishonest business practices.

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I agree. Surfers are NOT use to it. They don't expect it. they don't want it. It shows the GREED of the paysite owner. And he will be rewarded for it. And not in a good way/

And theo nly way to make it work is to advertise on the tour the longer you stay a member the more you get. then it's somewhat ethical.

How can you do that on a tour that is merely a half page ad w/ text that you need glasses to read?