Sure. Ok, here is goes -Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesXR
James, you are taking this way too seriously!
There. Now we can all enjoy our weekend! :smoke:
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Sure. Ok, here is goes -Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesXR
James, you are taking this way too seriously!
There. Now we can all enjoy our weekend! :smoke:
I just want to jump in here and say that, while I absolutely believe that Mark has let the help run wild at GMS and probably has spent too much time listening to JP's paranoia, I still have a lot of respect for him, for IntenseCash, and particuarly for the BSB products (website and DVDs).
A little lighthearted shit stirring is fine, I just want to make sure this doesn't turn into a "let's bash Mark" thread.
a couple people have said that the same people post on both boards, but that's not entirely true. at least 2 of the regular posters at gms were banned here, and before one of them was banned, i had heard from almost everyone here i know in either a pm or icq saying that he should be banned. a couple of the more dramatic uk guys also don't post here, mark and jp don't post here. that's off the top of my head, but i've seen a couple boards go bad and totally die from just one constantly unpleasant poster.
Online communities are heavily influenced by those who maintain them, and also by the policies and expectations that are imposed on community members.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesXR
The communities may contain some nucleus of the same people, but are VASTLY different. And most of that has to do with the community leaders (moderators, board owners) and the examples they set. GWW has changed dramatically over the past couple of years and has come to be a very business-focused board with little noise. To some extent, that's a result of the exclusion of a small handful of people, but to an even larger extent, it's sort of a "self-moderation" that arises as a result of the limited-but-appropriate input that the moderators here provide (both publicly and privately) to keep things in check.
If that's what you took from the comments (mostly made by me) then you completely missed the point (which I think a lot of people did.) In general, deleting threads or posts on any board is a bad idea (except in cases of things like defamation, libel, etc), because it removes transparency from the community.Quote:
Everything on GMS did seem to spiral out of control, but I think it started when certain parties started going off on this "All the drama should be censored" kick. Which is ridiculous, because those certain parties were creating "there's too much drama" drama. Ridiculous. Just because you call deleting drama threads "appropriate moderation" doesn't make it different from censoring.
"Appropriate moderation" has almost nothign to do with removal of content, but instead encouraging appropriate behavior by community members. Communities of any kind, virtual or real, establish rules of appropriate behavior, and people can choose to follow them, or leave (or be asked to leave) and find another community. *That* was the issue at GMS. The community standard that was being set by the owner was one of courtesy and respect, while the community standard being set by the help was straight out of the teen rebellion school of appropriate community behavior.
All it would have taken to make that community a pleasant and productive place was to set some simple expectations, gain consensus (or as close to consensus as one could get) from the community, and then have a moderator who embodied the spirit of whatever that consensus was to encourage people to act accordingly. If done correctly, it's almost never necessary to remove even a single post, because it's a proactive solution that anticipates the issue and resolves it before it can erupt into drama or flame wars.
And that's exactly why the board went to shit. Most people practice "treat people the way they treat you" instead of "treat people the way you'd like to be treated."Quote:
I actually feel that much of JP's style is ridiculous, but when people start acting like whiny teenagers I don't think it inappropriate to sink to that level.
I think any such blanket statements are unwise. I generally don't believe in closing doors if I can avoid it, because our community (the greater community of gay adult webmasters and producers, studios, etc) is small and fractious enough. While I do believe that simply avoiding a community that is incompetently moderated is a wise idea if one's intention is to be able to conduct business, I also believe that fortunes can change pretty rapidly -- I doubt many people have forgotten where GMS got its traffic from in the first place -- and I honestly hope, for the gay webmaster community as a whole, that Mark eventually comes to his senses, gets somebody competent in there, and that community is able to recover, because the loss of ANY vibrant community is a loss to the greater gay adult community as a whole.Quote:
Also, the whole "I'm never going there ever again because I'm so angry" thing, that's just lame. Has someone been injecting hormones into you juice boxes?
I totally missed that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesXR
See that's real shocking that someone would think it's ok to sink to that level. You would EXPECT that those that run boards would hold themselves to a higher level and set an example for others to follow?
Not sure about you, but when i was growing up and sank to levels that my parents thought were a little immature, I got my ass spanked. Once when i swore (yeah I sank to a level) I even got soap in my mouth.:cheekymonkey:
so you feel that when people are acting inappropriately, it's reasonable to respond with more inappropriate behavior?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesXR
I agree as well. Mark actually is a good guy. I don't think anyone that posted here said he wasn't. The fact that he is a good guy and has respect of many webmasters is why GMS took off. It just takes one rotten apple to spoil a community. We have seen that before.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
Fess up Chip. We all know all your motive was to destroy GMS as JP feels. j/k. I am in a good mood today! :bunny:
Sounds that way!Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Hey guys! I'm going to jump back into this thread. As part of the Intensecash team...BluMedia Studios/D&E Productions, we had extensive talks with Mark regarding JP's behavior. I really don't care who's right or who's wrong here...drama or no drama...but JP's responses to those on the the GMS board was inapproperiate behavior and I agree and so does Mark regarding this type of behavior, Matter of fact, Mark is very upset and stressed over this situation. Mark is taking some time out and he will be correcting the situation regarding the GMS board soon. When you do visit the GMS board, you will see many good and fun threads posted on the GMS board so please don't think the whole board is full of bad threads and drama.
Chip! I do apologies personally what has happen to you on the GMS board and I personally apologies to you and the others that had to deal with this situation and we hope to see you all back again. Hopefully time will tell.
-David
allboysvideo, i think mark is one of the nicest people in the business - perhaps TOO nice to run a board as he doesn't like to tell anyone "no" or let them know that their behavior is over the line.
jp's behavior toward chip, which started a few weeks ago was - imo - grossly inapproriate and should have been stopped the first time. instead it was allowed to go on and on for several weeks and to spread to insulting others as well. he has been allowed to treat pleasant and helpful community members as if they were the grossest types of offensive drama whores and flamers. yet the really inflamatory and insulting people there are allowed to continue.
while i appreciate that mark has decided to try and rectify this situation, i can't comprehend how it was allowed to get to this point in the first place. it's amazing that people can only talk about this on another board, but then any threads about it were shut down, i hear - i wouldn't know as i haven't been back except to log out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allboysvideo
David, I really appreciate your public apology; that takes a combination of balls and humility, and that's not something one often sees in the webmaster community. :) However, the several emails and ICQs I've sent to Mark have yielded only a deafening silence from his end, even as I knew he was speaking with others, and I really think that any authentic resolution requires honest communication.Quote:
Originally Posted by allboysvideo
I know that he's been both really busy and had some health issues, so I can understand that he probably felt somewhat broadsided by the situation, and perhaps wasn't prepared to deal with an aftermath that wasn't of his creation. Let's face it, most of us are webmasters who sit behind computers and don't talk to people because we're shy, so handling something like this isn't exactly second nature. If I were in his shoes, the combination of events would probably have me feeling pretty miserable and... as you said... wanting to take a nice break from things for a little while.
So at the point that he's willing to address the situation, I'm more than happy to talk; I hope that I come across as a pretty reasonable guy.
As for the GMS community, I suspect I speak for at least a few people in saying that there's really only one solution to the issue that lies at the heart of the GMS problem, and I think we all know what that is. Once that issue is properly resolved, it will probably take some time for the community to heal, rebuild trust, and return to its former vibrancy, but as I've said in several different contexts over the years, we are already entirely too fractured as a community of adult entrepreneurs. Anything that promotes cooperation and communication, the bridging of various communities, and better communication can only yield stronger growth for both the communities and the individual companies within them. And for that reason, I would like to believe that the recent events can give all of us an opportunity to ultimately forge better working relationships and understanding.
I look forward to further communication.
I am REALLY confiused.Quote:
Originally Posted by allboysvideo
YOU SEEM to speak for Marck and Intense Cash and you HOPE to see him BACK?
Do you know he was BANNED? That means that GMS doesn't want him back!
Please enlighten me! Do you want banned people back or are they banned?
Hey Guys,
Chip~your being very reasonable and again...I don't run the board for Mark, I'm just Mark's Production partner filming the content for the sites. Mark is ultimately responsible for the GMS board. Mark is very busy and yes he's had some issue's...for one he has had a very bad flu and he's been recovering from that. I do apologies that Mark didn't get back to you, I'm sure once I bring this to his attention, I will have Mark privately contact you. I think at this point its better to communicate via private emails. You can always contact me at david@allboysvideo.com or david@bluMedia.com. But I will have Mark contact you, please be patient.
Abostonboy~as for being banned, Yes! I know who has been banned and there is nothing to be confused about. I'm not asking the people that got banned to contact Mark to try to get back on the boards and I'm not telling Mark to bring back the folks that got banned. I'm just sending out an apology regarding the issue's that has been happening and the GMS board and just letting you folks know that the issue is going to be resolved. I agree with everyone on regarding "JP's" actions and I'm on your side and just as Chip mentioned in his post, it will take time for the GMS site to heal. If your going to be at the phoenix forum, please lets talk in person and get together with Mark and resolve the issue in person. I think sometimes its better to speak in person and meet face to face then just posting, and that goes for anyone who has been insulted by JP and has issues with the GMS board, if your going to be out in Phoenix please stop by our booth or speak to Jerry Lewis our affiliate manager who agrees as well that JP overstepped his limits and you all know Mark and you can stop and speak to him.
Again, I'm on your side and I agree. Something has to be done and it will and again please accept my sincere apologies.
For the record, I'm banned. No warnings, no notice, just went there to check messages and found I was banned. Someone forwarded JP's appallingly unprofessional post.
Haven't been back since.
That happened to me ages ago. When I addressed the same issues you guys are having now I was banned, and later sent an email by Mark telling me the same people you're having problems with now complained to him and were going to leave if I didn't get banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
It's not a big deal Chip. It sucks this is affecting you guys so much. I wish I could make it go away. Think about it... something happened at that place days ago that's still ripping you guys up inside. Maybe the people there didn't think as much about you guys as you think of them? Have there been protests there as to what happened? Are people there leaving in droves because of it? Maybe it was a good thing?