What Is The Most Damaging Thing In The Industry To Date?

steve - while everything you say is true, and what these people call "FREE PORN" are mostly samples to give surfers an idea of what they're getting, max also claims he talked to people on gay.com

now, he has no reason to believe that gay.com members are the bulk of his porn surfers and also NO reason to believe they are telling the truth. according to the u.s. voters, virtually no man surfs porn yet our stats tell us something entirely different.

expecting a large group of people to be honest about their porn surfing/buying habits is probably not the most effective way to figure out what works.

and max telling those of us who use free porn successfully for marketing that no one buys when we KNOW they do is just sort of funny and sad - and typical max. he's telling us he knows something doesn't work that we prove works every day and he's so sure of it.

Well, the answer is obvious.

Those individuals who want their porn completely for free are simply not his target market.

Steve

i knew that ;)

maybe now max will, too :D

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Originally Posted by desslock

Well, the answer is obvious.

Those individuals who want their porn completely for free are simply not his target market.

Steve

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Spirit Airlines is offering $8 one way fares. They are "giving seats away" to get people to try their service. Same as FREE porn IMHO.

I got a coupon for a free carton of Camel if anyone smokes that. Does that mean I will never smoke another pack of Camel after I get that and like it?

And EVERY afternoon McDonald's is giving away free Newman's Ice Coffee. No purchase required.

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And IF free porn is so different than anything else given away for free to get a consumer to try a product, why does the Hun get top dollar for listing FREE gallery spots and usually has a backlog waiting to get them?

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Maybe Max should spend less time on gay.com. He's obviously getting horrible advice. And fuck, most people on gay.com don't even post their real pic or age, and you want to rely on them for advice about their surfing habits. Ughhhh!

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Originally Posted by basschick

i knew that ;)

maybe now max will, too :D

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Highly unlikely.

Damn,

I feel like talking a lot.

Can we agree that Review Sites make a ton of sales and convert really well.

And can we agree that MOST offer links to free hosted galleries. OR high quality sample pics.

And can we agree that IF I surfer through all the revies on one review site I may see 1,000's of FREE pics/videos?

Isnt that FREE porn? Don't they convert well?

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Originally Posted by tombarr

Credit card regulations, search engine consolidation would be up there on my list. Credti card regulations caused severe cosolidation in the collecting money part of the business... which was a bad thing for us and others because it severely choked our revenue streams and made making sales more difficult, however, that same action could be considered a good event because it forced many of those sites not willing to pony up and play fair to go out of business...

I think sites can still compete using free content. use old content as free content to market new exclusive content works well for us.

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Good points but I think you are wrong about those not being able to pony up going out of business... they didn't... they ended up becoming affiliates and creating free AVS sites and TPG sites, etc.

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Originally Posted by desslock

Well, the answer is obvious.

Those individuals who want their porn completely for free are simply not his target market.

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People will take whatever they can get for free.

It's important to remember that porn is an impulse purchase where someone is horny and wants to get off.

Imagine being in 7/11 looking at porn mags being able to jack off and not having to buy the magazine.

If surfers are bombarded with free content in a market where the impulse is to get off right away, then the content producers lose money. It's very simple. Kind of like why buy the cow when you're getting the milk for free.

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Originally Posted by desslock

I find this "tug of war" between entertainment producers and their consumers using their products interesting.

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I remember being in grade school and when a new movie would come out our reward as a class would be to watch the movie on Friday, in class, if we were good. None of us paid to watch the neverending story, or E.T. , etc. We got it for free, no need to pay.

I don't see Pfizer giving away viagra to guys that want to get off, sure you can buy a generic version for less but you still have to BUY it.

Squirt - i used to think porn was an impulse buy till i worked with a program that used NATS. NATS stats show how many people actually came back more than once before buying. a surprising number of buyers didn't buy for between a week and a month, and came back two or more times. and i was shocked that a lot of people came back for over a month before they finally did pull out their cards.

using NATS showed me that porn isn't always the impulse buy i thought it was. there are plenty of impulse buyers but apparently there are plenty of guys who think about it and check the features and the site several times before making their decision.

in the last week, i received several free sample products and one was so good - a juice at trader joes - that we bought 2 bottles.

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Originally Posted by basschick

Squirt - i used to think porn was an impulse buy till i worked with a program that used NATS. NATS stats show how many people actually came back more than once before buying. a surprising number of buyers didn't buy for between a week and a month, and came back two or more times. and i was shocked that a lot of people came back for over a month before they finally did pull out their cards.

using NATS showed me that porn isn't always the impulse buy i thought it was. there are plenty of impulse buyers but apparently there are plenty of guys who think about it and check the features and the site several times before making their decision.

in the last week, i received several free sample products and one was so good - a juice at trader joes - that we bought 2 bottles.

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From your NATS experience you're saying the majority of surfers that come to the sites you were involved with waited about a week before buying, or just a surprising number?

i'd say half didn't buy the first time they landed at the site. some came back and bought the next day and lots waited longer and returned more than once before buying. and what really REALLY surprised me is that these sites, although reality style, never updated. so it's not like there was a new video the surfers might have liked better.

these were str8 sites, btw, so i'm hoping that someone here with NATS has been reading that part of their stats and will post here.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

From your NATS experience you're saying the majority of surfers that come to the sites you were involved with waited about a week before buying, or just a surprising number?

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Originally Posted by basschick

Squirt - i used to think porn was an impulse buy till i worked with a program that used NATS. NATS stats show how many people actually came back more than once before buying. a surprising number of buyers didn't buy for between a week and a month, and came back two or more times. and i was shocked that a lot of people came back for over a month before they finally did pull out their cards.

using NATS showed me that porn isn't always the impulse buy i thought it was. there are plenty of impulse buyers but apparently there are plenty of guys who think about it and check the features and the site several times before making their decision.

in the last week, i received several free sample products and one was so good - a juice at trader joes - that we bought 2 bottles.

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Porn has never been an impulse buy and never will, broadly speaking. The impulse is what movie, magazine or website to buy and nothing else. If we were selling impulse buy we would be broke. The guy who on impulse decides to jerk off to Internet porn is the guy surfing free sites.

But no one has raised this issue.

ARE WE SELLING THE PRODUCT THE CONSUMER NEEDS OR THE PRODUCT WE NEED TO SELL HIM?

To elaborate. How many of our potential customers want to buy a 30 day membership and how many want to jerk off there and then? Some sites can end up costing $60 for a few days jerking off, yes it's available for longer and you get upsold to another glorious site but all you wanted to do was rub one out while the wife was down the shops. Is that worth $60?

We sell this product under the illusion that it's what the affiliates need to pay them enough to get them to send traffic. An industry where the tail wags the dog?

However many claim to convert at 1-1,000 to get a REV share payout of $30. Would a site converting at 1-100, generating TWICE the traffic and paying the affiliate $2 actually pay affiliates more for their toil?

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Originally Posted by basschick

i'd say half didn't buy the first time they landed at the site. some came back and bought the next day and lots waited longer and returned more than once before buying. and what really REALLY surprised me is that these sites, although reality style, never updated. so it's not like there was a new video the surfers might have liked better.

these were str8 sites, btw, so i'm hoping that someone here with NATS has been reading that part of their stats and will post here.

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Did the wife come back from doing the shopping? :penny:

Would find it acceptable if the tour kept changing girls like ours does, but on a static tour is seems strange. Guess guys need time to convince themselves to shell out $30 on Interent porn.

Not a good sign.

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Originally Posted by basschick

i'd say half didn't buy the first time they landed at the site. some came back and bought the next day and lots waited longer and returned more than once before buying. and what really REALLY surprised me is that these sites, although reality style, never updated. so it's not like there was a new video the surfers might have liked better.

these were str8 sites, btw, so i'm hoping that someone here with NATS has been reading that part of their stats and will post here.

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That's good to know thanks for the information :groovy:

So many variables to consider in such a complex formula

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Originally Posted by Paul Markham

However many claim to convert at 1-1,000 to get a REV share payout of $30. Would a site converting at 1-100, generating TWICE the traffic and paying the affiliate $2 actually pay affiliates more for their toil?

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that comment makes me want to start another high quality site with that structure and see what the consumer response is

I'm sure someone has done this before, what was the response?