New 2257 Regulations As Published A Few Minutes Ago..

Could someone explain if this new regulation applies to non-US webmasters, e.g European webmasters ?

This part is interesting, and I don't think it was in the first draft a year ago:

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In order to sell in the U.S. market, foreign producers must comply with U.S. laws. This rule applies equally to any sexually explicit material introduced into the stream of commerce in the United States no matter where it was produced. Foreign producers have the option of not complying with the rule, but then their access to the U.S. market is justly and lawfully prohibited."

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Does this pertain only to content producers outside USA, or to webmasters as well?

If foreign webmasters are included, how the hell can they be inspected by the U.S. investigators? By phone? By email?

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Originally Posted by Ben

Could someone explain if this new regulation applies to non-US webmasters, e.g European webmasters ?

This part is interesting, and I don't think it was in the first draft a year ago:



Does this pertain only to content producers outside USA, or to webmasters as well?

If foreign webmasters are included, how the hell can they be inspected by the U.S. investigators? By phone? By email?

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They need a court order, a local policeman and a flight ticket. To enforce a filing law that breaks EU law. What are the odds?

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Originally Posted by Paul Markham

They need a court order, a local policeman and a flight ticket. To enforce a filing law that breaks EU law. What are the odds?

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So, you think it is unlikely that European webmasters can be investigated on this issue?

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Originally Posted by Ben

So, you think it is unlikely that European webmasters can be investigated on this issue?

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Unlikey is the best the US could hope for. They will have no evidence to present to a judge to get a search warrant, if they turn up without tell them to FUCK OFF.

If they try to restrict your trade without cause the courts will crucify them. They need evidence you are doing something a little more wrong than not cross filing documents.

Just make sure you have all the IDs and model releases on file. Yo needed them last week to prove you're legal and yo need them next week as well.

But think of the American sites and webmasters who are quaking in their boots and wondering if it's worth the trouble. Now think of where their surfers will be going?

Here's what I think a foreign webmaster essentially needs to do to comply. If I were shooting my own content, I would take copies of my model's ID. I would make sure it was picture ID and contained their name and birthdate. I would have the model sign a release form. I would maintain all of those records in my place of business. These are all things that you may need to do already to satisfy your own government that you're not photographing minors.

If the U.S. law required that I put my business address on my website and I wasn't comfortable doing so, I would get a mail box with a street address, and note it as: 123 Main Street, Suite 807. Yes, I know the legislation says a post office box is not acceptable, but who is going to fly to your country and check?

Essentially, do whatever you need to do to appear compliant so billing companies and sponsors don't freak out, but just know that no one is ever going to come knocking on your door. And by "appear" I don't mean you shoot minors. I mean that you do what is reasonable for you to do to avoid being hassled by billing companies and sponsors.

In their own country, the Department of Justice would require an army of thousands to start tracking down producers of porn and requesting proof of age. And even if they had that army, I doubt they'd be wasting resources flying around the world, aside from the fact that they don't have the jurisdiction to do so.

Now, put those chunks of cloud back up in the sky, everything will be fine.

dzinerbear

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

Here's what I think a foreign webmaster essentially needs to do to comply. If I were shooting my own content, I would take copies of my model's ID. I would make sure it was picture ID and contained their name and birthdate. I would have the model sign a release form. I would maintain all of those records in my place of business. These are all things that you may need to do already to satisfy your own government that you're not photographing minors.

If the U.S. law required that I put my business address on my website and I wasn't comfortable doing so, I would get a mail box with a street address, and note it as: 123 Main Street, Suite 807. Yes, I know the legislation says a post office box is not acceptable, but who is going to fly to your country and check?

Essentially, do whatever you need to do to appear compliant so billing companies and sponsors don't freak out, but just know that no one is ever going to come knocking on your door. And by "appear" I don't mean you shoot minors. I mean that you do what is reasonable for you to do to avoid being hassled by billing companies and sponsors.

In their own country, the Department of Justice would require an army of thousands to start tracking down producers of porn and requesting proof of age. And even if they had that army, I doubt they'd be wasting resources flying around the world, aside from the fact that they don't have the jurisdiction to do so.

Now, put those chunks of cloud back up in the sky, everything will be fine.

dzinerbear

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After listening to Bernstein on ynotradio, i figured that us foreign webmasters don't have much to worry about. Well, except for the whole "secondary producer" issue and whether our affiliates will be considered as such. That could make things complicated. I mean, how would we provide them with all that information/documentation? I persoanlly wouldn't feel comfortable handing over delicate information like that to every affiliate that decides to promote my site. hmmm...

But about the mail box thing you mentioned Dzinerbear, so would you just keep all your records (copies of course) in that mail box then? I know companies here that use mail box addresses for their custodian records information, but i'm not sure what they're doing with the actual paper records.

Allan

Thanks Paul Markham and Dzinerbear. I'm somewhat relieved after reading your posts. I don't feel I should be happy because a lot of US webmasters are going to quit the adult job due to this ruling. It might get me a liittle more traffic for some time, and then the big porn fishes inside and outside US will regain their power. When something like this happens, it's bad for everyone, especially smaller adult webmasters.


Dzinerbear, I have one more question.

Let's suppose this situation: I do not display my real name anywhere on the web, and keep my domains under privacy option (my real info except email address isn't accessible at public whois). I put the PO box address on the main domain along with my country name, and wriite that I have all the model ID's and model releases etc which will be provided to authorized persons.

Let's say they want to check some of the models appearing on my sites, or to see if I generally comply with 2257 regulations. I suppose they will give up as soon as they see that I'm from Europe (that will be obvious from the PO box address), but in case they're persistent... they will find out that I do have all the model release forms (provided by the content providers I bought content from), which, of course, is a good thing. But, they will also note that I did not fully comply with the new legislation since I didn't cross-reference the data for models and didn't publish my real name, phone number etc. on the web.

Now, during communication with them (which would be through email I presume) I would probably tell them my real name. Would the fact that I failed to comply fully with the new legislation automatically put me on some US black list? Could it make me persona non-grata in the US?

I know you're probably not a lawyer, but I'd like to know what is your take on this. I presume a lot of foreign webmasters will take this route and they'll want to know the same thing.

Ben - u.s. law doesn't apply to you, so i can't see why you'd have to cross reference. our driving laws don't apply to you while you're at home, either.

on the offchance that the u.s. contacts police in another country with a concern that some pics look iffy, those police will come by, check the i.d., and see everything is fine.

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Originally Posted by GPallan

But about the mail box thing you mentioned Dzinerbear, so would you just keep all your records (copies of course) in that mail box then? I know companies here that use mail box addresses for their custodian records information, but i'm not sure what they're doing with the actual paper records.
Allan

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Sorry, I should have elaborated. Many of us run our businesses out of our homes. We don't have offices. I would feel particularly comfortable plastering my home address all over my websites. I wouldn't keep the records in the actual mailbox, I'd just use it as my address and not tell the world it was a post office box.

dzinerbear

So do I understand the new regulations correctly. We have to have the models actual id's and model releases displayed on a 2257 page as well as our address where we do business?

Mark

There's a real easy solution to all of this. Don't shoot guys who look younger than 23. And I doubt you'll ever be bothered. Geez ... I should say that, I guess the bear market could get pretty crowded.

And Ben, as per your other questions. I haven't the foggiest idea. I think people need to remember that what they read here is OPINION and not necessarily fact. And we can play the what-if game until the cows come home.

Take a breath, subscribe to AVN Online's daily news e-mailer and Xbiz's as well and All of Em, if you want. These sources will help you keep as informed as you can be. And then, you'll just have to wait and see what everybody's doing. Much of what is coming down the pipe is out of our hands. If a sponsor suddenly decides they only want to deal with U.S. webmasters because that's what they think will give them the best protection, there's nothing I can do about that. All I can do is pull their banners from my sites and stop sending them traffic.

These amendements don't go into effect until the end of June, so just relax and gather information before you react. That's all you need to do right now is gather information, gather, gather, gather

dzinerbear

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So do I understand the new regulations correctly. We have to have the models actual id's and model releases displayed on a 2257 page as well as our address where we do business?

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Mark, I don't think you have to have the model info on the 2257 page, just the name of the custodian of records, where the records are kept, and your general hours of business, so that the gaybashers know when you'll be home.

mark - no. you need to have the custodian of records address - which is now your primary place of business, and not your content providers.

what Dzinerbear is recommending is now a crime, as of june 24. you cannot put a post office box address on your pages. the law actually addresses that point. sure, they probably won't get to everybody, but you can go to jail or spend years of your life in court for disobeying this rule. it ain't worth it. actually the custodians ALWAYS had to have a real address listed - it's only now that that law applies to secondary producers.

Dzinerbear - having models who look old enough may not protect you. remember, this law is about closing porn sites, not protecting minors.

the law here says that EVERYBODY who comes into a strip club must have i.d. regardless of age. there was a club in hawthorne, and their doorman let in a 55 year old man without checking his i.d. because the doorman thought the law was only concerned with the age of the patrons. the police came through, and busted everyone in the club - strippers, patrons, other employees - because that one 55 year old man didn't have his i.d. the club lost their liquor license forever, and the owner was in court and paid some hefty fines.

making up the law as you go along can cost you everything. it isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by IntenseCash.com

So do I understand the new regulations correctly. We have to have the models actual id's and model releases displayed on a 2257 page as well as our address where we do business?

Mark

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Originally Posted by basschick

mark - no. you need to have the custodian of records address - which is now your primary place of business, and not your content providers.

what Dzinerbear is recommending is now a crime, as of june 24. you cannot put a post office box address on your pages. the law actually addresses that point. sure, they probably won't get to everybody, but you can go to jail or spend years of your life in court for disobeying this rule. it ain't worth it.

Dzinerbear - having models who look old enough may not protect you. remember, this law is about closing porn sites, not protecting minors.

the law here says that EVERYBODY who comes into a strip club must have i.d. regardless of age. there was a club in hawthorne, and their doorman let in a 55 year old man without checking his i.d. because the doorman thought the law was only concerned with the age of the patrons. the police came through, and busted everyone in the club - strippers, patrons, other employees - because that one 55 year old man didn't have his i.d. the club lost their liquor license forever, and the owner was in court and paid some hefty fines.

making up the law as you go along can cost you everything. it isn't worth it.

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WOW that is crazy. Now I just have to figure out what to do because there is no way I want to put my home address.

Mark

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Originally Posted by basschick

Dzinerbear - having models who look old enough may not protect you. remember, this law is about closing porn sites, not protecting minors.

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Basshick..if you truly believe this, how much of this belief comes from the actual regulations & how much of it comes from the rest of your belief system/views on the government?

I agree that what I've read/heard so far is going to make a huge amount of paperwork and time involved increase, but I haven't yet fallen prey to the belief that this is a concerted effort to shut down all porn sites, and in particular gay porn sites.

I guess I'm asking..is do you believe in the above idea?