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I told you XXXWriterDude that you where on shaky ground man, I could see that coming. I can get away with saying crap like that cuzz I do not really have to work with these guys “like getting interviews” and they expect that stuff from me. Your arguments where very sound and based in psychology mostly, but they do not want to hear that man. ;)
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Originally Posted by maxpower
No worries, Max. I'm QUITE used to being viewed as a troublemaker just trying to stir things up, and being the object of attacks b/cuz I'm not afraid to speak my mind and be vocal. I'm in no way a martyr or anything like that (I leave that to the TRUE pioneers who have really put themselves in the thick of things and fought tooth and nail for social change), but I do see myself as someone with a forum for getting people to think, and I realize that people will always resent and distrust those who encourage them to think outside the box. It's frustrating, b/cuz people often react so vehemently to some of the things I say, but oh well... I guess it just comes with the territory. I make no apologies for my viewpoints, or for what I stand for.
Well then I applaud you man, its much harder to really express your true view point rather than just spinning a bunch of PR/PC crap. I could play the PR game all day but it would make me nothing but a 2 faced liar, maybe I would make a few more bucks, but if people do not like me at least its really me they do not like. :develish:
Don't applaud me, man. I'm not any of the drag queens who fought at Stonewall or anyone who's risked their lives for the advancement of gay rights. I'm just someone with my own little vision to change the world, and I do hope that I am able to do some good one day.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Anyone who's met me off this site knows that I am actually nothing like how I come off in my posts. I'm incredibly pleasant, cordial and polite, and most of all friendly. It's only when I sit down in front of a keyboard that I switch into writer mode and get all theoretical and shit. But hey, that's who I am: I'm a writer. I write. :)
Well I am probably a bit wilder in real life I can get ya throw out of a club trust me, but will be a night you will remember. I am a Webmaster I bullshit that’s what I do :joker:
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Originally Posted by maxpower
Well, I try not to be combative or confrontational. I find that to be a very unattractive trait in people. ;)
In real life I really do not try to hurt peoples feeling, but online its a bit different I do like to stir things up you never know what will come out of it. Like the saying goes I would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven or around here I would rather most people hate me but know who I am rather than kind of like me and really have no idea of who I am. Besides I work really hard its nice to play around sometimes, I know I come off bad some times but its hard to take the Con approach to allot of debates.
Well I still think you are looking at the world with Southern California sunglasses on.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
You are also presupposing that the "gay community" is a monothithic entity. But then you yourself have the wisdom and cleverness to stand up from the common pool and make moral judgements which also just happens to adhere to your own views of life.
So what if people obsessively go to the gym? And so what if people are discreet about their sexuality? Is it possible that someone who is "self loathing" simply is someone who has different values and ideas then yourself?
What a crusader! What a jihadist!
I think being able to decree how someone should or should not be personally happy is a little presumptive.... especially if you base it on a monolithic group of people who in reality does not even exist.
Steve
By my understanding, monolithic actually means "monumental" or "massive," which the gay community definitely is. If you're implying that I'm lumping all gay people into the same category, you're mistaken. But I'm not going to waste my time pointing out all the people who do live happy lives. I'm not going to preface everything I say with disclaimers. There's just no need for it. We should all be smart and perceptive enough to realize that what I say does not apply to everybody in the gay community.Quote:
Originally Posted by desslock
You're right; happy is whatever you choose for yourself, and if you read my posts carefully, you will see that I've been saying that all along. I'm simply speaking of the faction of the community that struggles with the issues I mention. And, yes, I'm simply speaking based on my particular values. Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Someone asked us what OUR opinions were about the gay community, and I offered them. And I stand by them.
Change doesn't get made by wishy-washy rhetoric, Steve. I suspect you know that. You pick a point of view and you commit to it. This is what *I* believe, but honestly, and frankly, I feel you're smart enough to make your own assertions and form your *own* opinions about the gay community. Smart-ass.
Social change comes about by giving people hope for the future and tools on how to create that future, concrete things they can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
If you shift your paradigm just slightly you could elicit positive responses from people instead of negative.
If your posts on this topic were focused on the positive aspects of our community and how it's enriched your life, instead of the negative aspects of certain people you've encountered in our community, imagine the light that would be shed on others who were feeling negatively about being Gay.
Being part of a community is giving back, helping others in your community, uniting with others for common causes, getting to KNOW others in your community. Providing shelter for someone in need, clothing, food or volunteering to do so many other things that need to be done. Providing companionship for someone who's old and alone, or dying. Feeding someone’s dogs who's staying in the hospital getting treatment and doesn’t have anyone close by to help them out. etc. etc.
Some of us here have done these things and have a different outlook on the community as a result, as others here will have in the future .:groovy: my .0002 cents
In your post you made massive generalizations, then said in your post to me that you did it because it made good copy and you wanted to spark conversation, now you're saying that you're not lumping all gay people together... hmmmmm I see some backpeddling :playboy:Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
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Originally Posted by Squirt
Generalizations are just those, Squirt: generalizations. The very meaning of the word implies that whatever point is being made is being made IN GENERAL. A generalization does not mean that everybody in any given community subscribes to the same ideals and/or behavior. A generalization doesn't lump everyone together; it merely lumps SOME people together. My point is that a good portion of the gay community either suffers from or is affected by the things I speak of.
By the way, I'm sure no one told the drag queens who started Stonewall to "focus on the positive aspects" of police brutality. I'm also fairly certain that nobody told the people who fought slavery to "focus on the positive aspects" of human trafficking. Or I'm sure no one told any of our favorite presidents -- whoever they may be -- to "focus on the positive aspects" of America instead of denouncing the negative ones.
The whole point of speaking out against something is to, well, speak out against it, not in favor of it. And again, to take it back to the original post that started this whole thing, we were asked to state what we HATED about being gay, not what we LIKED about it. If you want to start ANOTHER thread in which I go on and on and on about all the things I LOVE about the community, I'll be happy to add my $.02 to that one as well.
I feel like I'm starting to talk down to people, and I respect most of you and your opinions far too much to do that, so I'm going to politely bow out of this conversation. You don't agree with me or my tactics; big deal. I never said you had to. Believe it or not, I'm not here to seek your approval.
I think the best thing would be for you to simply say, "Fair enough," and leave it at that. That's what I'm going to do.
Thanx.