Sorry everyone for the double post, my computer was messed up and froze on me.
EEK!!!
Printable View
Sorry everyone for the double post, my computer was messed up and froze on me.
EEK!!!
Sigh.
It's a fact that the Cybersocket/AVN/Epoch show was scheduled at the same time as GPF, after that timeframe was already established as the timeframe for GPF. I don't think anyone is disputing that, so Karl's reposting of my statement doesn't really say anything. You don't have to repeat a true statement to make it true.
IF Cybersocket, Epoch, and AVN want to heal the rift, they can. They can make a statement to the effect that they would welcome and support a rescheduling of GPF at a different time, and they would acknowledge that scheduling their event in the same timeframe, as well as locking out certain companies because of "personality conflicts" was not in anyone's best interest and take steps to change that.
But that isn't what you see happening. Instead, you get (paraphrasing) "We've already accomplished what we set out to do, and we have no interest or desire in changing, so quit bitching about it and live with it. You'll either go to our show or none at all."
BTW, I always found Brian to be a straight shooter, when he was at Bionic Pixels as well as now. He's not trashing Cybersocket (nor am I), he's simply saying that this show schedule is not in the best interests of the gay webmaster community. And ultimately, the good of the community as a whole is what *everyone* reading this thread should be concerned about.
I am sorry to feed the flames. Lee tends to write many times in a forceful questionable manner - yet I still see many of his questions yet unanswered.
I am certainly not one of the major parties involved in this dispute, far from it. I am just a small Proudly Gay, fully adult-employed webmaster. I do see this incident as affecting me personally, as seemingly just a few power players have decided what is best for me and the Gay Adult industry.
What I am more curious about is what Lee wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
I, like Lee, would like a reason for that non-compete clause. Why is CCBILL shut out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
(responding to Chip's post...)
That's really it. Holly, it doesn't matter how I feel about Cybersocket or the people there.
Also doesn't matter how I feel about Epoch or the people there - many of my favorite people in the industry and indeed one of my longest standing friends in the industry works there.
It's about the GPF being sacrificed for an agenda that'll harm rather than help the industry and gay webmasters losing what could very well have been one of the greatest resources available to all of us because a group of companies chose to pursue that.
It has been brought to my attention by a valid source that Brian Dunlap did not ever work for Cybersocket specifically, he was employed by two different companies in which Tim and Morgan are majority share holders. :morning:
lol thank you for that?
Actually, Ken, I don't think I ever said that I know exactly what anyone's intentions are, and if I did, then I apologize for that, because you're correct -- I cannot know what's going on inside anyone's head.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
I did say that, in scheduling a new event on top of one that is already established (even if only by one year) aimed at the exact same, relatively small universe (gay webmasters) within a month of the already established show, it's hard to find any credible reason to choose that particular timeframe, other than to compete with and squash the event that created the market in the first place.
I am trying not to state or repeat anything that's false. As I learn and understand and read between the lines of what people have written, the picture becomes a little clearer.
But my original statement, that the parties involved could solve the problem if they chose to do so, remains unchanged, and I think that statement *is* factual, so I will continue to repeat it if others try to distract the main focus... which, to me, is to get unity and cooperation among the community as a whole.
That's the part it amuses me to see so many people choose to overlook.
Everyone and their dog has the right to throw together a convention. And just as with any other business, some will survive and some will not and there's no God-given entitlement to be successful, much less make it at all.
But when your product (gay webmaster convention) is supposed to likewise provide a service to your customers (gay webmasters) and you do something so transparent as disallowing one greatly beneficial product/service for sake of your own, I see a conflict in what you're attempting to say you're providing and what the actual impact upon the community is.
The end result, in my opinion, of preempting the GPF for sake of another is a gay webmaster community with fewer options and fewer opportunities. It's ironic that in offering up what is being billed as a resource and service to gay webmasters, the organizers of this latest event may have actually done more harm than good for the community in the long run.
alas, it now postiing game time. I AM NOT PLAYING Lee's post count game.
I want to know why CCBILL was blocked as being a sponsor for the NEW scheduled event.
Let me assure you, this thread will not die until I get the answer.
Wow! This sucker is going to hit ten pages.
I just wish the people organizing the October gay conference would just come here and have an open discussion about it.
Sure, they're going to get screamed at. A lot of people are really pissed about losing a show that was pretty well loved. But let's clear the air. And if they value the gay side of the business, then send someone here to talk to us.
Regardless of what happened or didn't happen behind the scenes, when AVN announced this show we all screamed on this board that it was a bad idea. There was even a poll that showed most people wouldn't attend two gay shows back to back. And they went ahead with the show anyway. So apparently our feedback is meaningless.
And then, we lost a show that the community was very happy about. That's what we're angry about.
Michael
I only wish I could write as well as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
I personally, as a small full-time gay webmaster, think Epoch spent money to reach our community. It has backfired, when you dont allow CCBILL to be represented.
AS mentioned, a POLL was disregarded.
I, as a small Gay webmaster, now know names to avoid business with.
So we went 2 pages without any post from me and everyone just *vanished* i guess its time i ask the questions again or we'll never hear from that group of companies who have so many questions left unanswered... The same group of companies who 'support' the gay webmaster community, until that very same community starts asking for explanations of their actions.
1) Why did Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch decide to schedule their show in the same month where they obviously were aware that CCBill was planning another Gay Phoenix Forum?
2) What were the reasons for Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch behind adding a non-compete to the show contract which specifically disallowed CCBill any opportunity to sponsor their show, even though, for many years, and in fact at the Phoenix Forum at the end of this month, Cybersocket is allowed to sponsor, just as AVN and Epoch are allowed to sponsor and, will most likely be at the show in full force?
3) Why, by maliciously timing their show and subsequently forcing CCBills hand in cancelling this years Gay Phoenix Forum did this group of companies, Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch decide that lining their own pockets was more important than uniting the gay adult webmaster community?
4) Why does it take a post from *ME* to illicit a response from Cybersocket, AVN and Epoch in respect of the questions many of us actually want answering and why do those responses always end up distracting from the main reason this thread was created and turning to accusations of 'drama' from the 3 companies involved and their friends?
For companies who profess wanting to unite the gay adult industry, they certainly only seem to be interested in addressing the gay webmaster community when the 'heat' gets to much for them.
Lets wait for Morgan, Karl, Ken and Holly to come back in force, hopefully with some answers to the as yet, unanswered questions many of us still want to hear about.
Regards,
Lee
Lee,
I have no answers, I am not throwing the show Lee, but I will be attending it. I dont play poltics and I think it will be a good show. I really enjoyed the GayVNs this year and am looking forward to another good show!
and Brian I am not assuming nothing about you or how you feel.
I honestly cannot understand this huge issue but one thing for sure a month from now some new issue will take it's place and you can all go on about that!
Not even for question #4 above Holly?Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
Why did it take a response in this thread from ME for you to come back and reply to it... Minutes after i posted?
Regards,
Lee
I doubt it. I don't think people will forget a month or 6 months or a year from now.Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedDollars Holly
This is a much bigger deal than anything I can think of (other than perhaps .xxx) that's happened before, because there's never before been a case where a group of companies have banded together and directly told the sponsor of a loved and anticipated event to cancel it because they weren't going to support it, and then turned around and scheduled their own event at the exact same time.
Now, granted, this is what is publicly known. Others have insisted that there's perhaps a different explanation, but no one is offering up that explanation (other than the completely non-credible "it's a coincidence.")
I'm open to the idea there's an alternate explanation, and I think everyone posting in the thread is open to the idea of some meaningful action by the parties responsible to create the unity that everyone, except the 4 or 5 people that started posting in the last 24 hours, seems to want. CCBill is on record as saying that it wants to participate and support unity in the community, so no one can say they aren't coming to the table.
As much as some people would very much like it if the noise would quiet down, I think it's only going to get louder as more and more people in the community understand what's going on and start asking the same questions.
Yet, whenever an opportunity to take actions or make public statements supporting unity and cooperation among all, and making BOTH events viable and successful, the silence from the AVN/Epoch/Cybersocket camp is deafening.
I want to reiterate that I am not "siding" with anyone on this issue, and I remain open to input and information from any credible source. I'm also very willing to change my opinion given credible evidence to do so. I just haven't seen or heard anything that would warrant a change in my viewpoint, and I suspect that most of the others posting here feel the same way.