Streaming Video Sizes - Dial-up & Broadband

Hey guys. For a video to be easily streamed what size would it have to be?


for example, i've been told that for broadband users to be able to stream a .wmv video, it should look something like this:

320x240: ~250kbps(??) or less
2-pass vbr or cbr
audio bandwidth ~32 kbps or less


Does that sound about right? or can i push it a little more?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And how about dial-up users? How's this setting for a .wmv vid? Can i increase anything and still have them be able to stream it?

240x180: ~100kbps
2-pass vbr or cbr (or 1-pass?)
audio: 16kbps

Can't you increase the cache size so you can stream it at a higher bitrate?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Can't you increase the cache size so you can stream it at a higher bitrate?

---

as in ask the viewers to increase their computer cache? if that's what you mean, i'd rather not have them go through the trouble. some of these guys can barely send emails haha

No, I think that when you encode, you can control the amount of the video that preloads before it starts to play. I may be way off on this. :idunno:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

No, I think that when you encode, you can control the amount of the video that preloads before it starts to play. I may be way off on this. :idunno:

---

hmm...i wonder if "Max Startup Latency" is what you're talking about. Probably so. By default it's set to 4s

Lol, I'm not a video guy. I wish someone would come in here and give you real information. I'm just gonna get you totally screwed up

250k is pretty small for a broadband video. you don't have to be a video expert - just check out the video on some paysites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basschick

250k is pretty small for a broadband video. you don't have to be a video expert - just check out the video on some paysites.

---

Well, I have to disagree with you here.
Just writing a message like this ISN'T much help, especially telling someone that they don't need to be a video expert, when in FACT, having some in depth knowledge about video IS INDEED important to making good videos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GPallan

Hey guys. For a video to be easily streamed what size would it have to be?


for example, i've been told that for broadband users to be able to stream a .wmv video, it should look something like this:

320x240: ~250kbps(??) or less
2-pass vbr or cbr
audio bandwidth ~32 kbps or less


Does that sound about right? or can i push it a little more?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And how about dial-up users? How's this setting for a .wmv vid? Can i increase anything and still have them be able to stream it?

240x180: ~100kbps
2-pass vbr or cbr (or 1-pass?)
audio: 16kbps

---

Here's my 2 cents on video..I've only been doing this since 1996, so I'm sure there are better qualified people on here to give more in depth info to help you out..but I'll try.

First off, if you offer ME a 240x180 video to watch, I'd probably say "no thanks" and move along to another site. At some point, you have to say "ok, what do I want to offer, small files that are easy to download, or bigger better quality files that take longer to answer". And in this changing electronic world, bigger IS better alas.

320x240 has been the "standard" pretty much for the default size of almost all streaming and downloadable videos. And that's fine to keep them at that size as long as the quality is decent. But you may want to decide at some point to go a bit large, even say 352x240 which gives you more of a rectangular frame instead of a pure square..which video wasn't made for..a square that is.

Making ANY video less than 768kbps (video bit rate) these days really seems to be the LOWEST you should make your videos for adequate quality. You'll notice that that is one of the most common templates in any encoder you use. And there is a reason for it..anything less and your picture looks LESS than professional (this is all just MY opinion remember).

One of the secrets in keeping your file size as small as possible is to lower the AUDIO bit rate. So many people have video at 128 or even as high 192 bits. Now unless there is some kick ass music or important dialogue that needs to be heard crystal clear..you don't need that high a rate. You CAN get by with a mere 32 for audio. Yeah..it'll sound a tad tinney, but frankly, it's the VIDEO that the guys are jacking off to.

And I don't mess around with vbr as it is touchy and not that dependable. I do all my videos with a cbr bit rate.

And if your dial up users don't like the large size files or have problems finishing a download while online..urge them to get a utility device like "Get Right" that allows an incomplete download to continue the next time they log into your site..that way they can get the full video..even if it takes 3 days. But in this day of broadband..dial up users are getting fewer and fewer in demand. Frankly, most of my members are broadband because they realize the importance for speed as they WANT high quality video and know to get it, the file size is going to be bigger.

If ever in doubt, just ask yourself this: If YOU were downloading a video to watch later, or watching one online..would you want a small fuzzy vid..or larger size sharper vid to watch?

Hope that helps.

but he's only talking about the size of the video, not the quality or anything else. and i stand by what i said - if you want to see what's out there, check some paysites.

many gay paysites i've been inside recently have video at 512k or less. i'm talking about sites that do actually retain. i personally am always happy to see bigger, better quality videos - but i haven't been seeing them in the paysites i've been checking out. i'd love to see more sites with 640x480 videos at 768 or better! that would make ME want to rebill, ya know?

GPallan - instead of thinking like a webmaster, and looking at all the numbers, why not encode one video at many speeds and sizes, and then see which ones would make you want to join a paysite if you knew they had that size of videos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slade

Well, I have to disagree with you here.
Just writing a message like this ISN'T much help, especially telling someone that they don't need to be a video expert, when in FACT, having some in depth knowledge about video IS INDEED important to making good videos.

---

I know what you mean, Basschick. I need to step back and put myself in the viewer’s shoes more often. That's what i think we should all be doing more often

But what i'm REALLY trying to figure out here is basically, how large can i go before the video starts buffering too much? that's all :) I'm talking Streaming Video. I'm not concerned with downloadable videos because in that case i'm only limited by how much money i want to fork over in bandwidth as i increase the size of the video.

So, how large should i be going for viewers with dial-up connections before their streaming video starts to buffer and annoy them? And how large should i be going for viewers with broadband connections before their streaming video starts to buffer and annoy them? Are the settings that i mentioned above the limit? can i go bigger?

Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slade

Hope that helps.

---

Hey Slade. Wow thanks man. that's a lot of help.

I totally know what you mean about low quality videos and how much they suck. My concern is not cheaping out on bandwidth so much as it is keeping my members happy so i'd love to be able to offer them the best quality video that their connections can handle and i guess that's were i need the most amount of help.

I'm not sure if i need to differentiate between Streaming Video and Downloadable Video or whether they're both the SAME video played in two different formats. ???

Don't most sites offer BOTH a streaming version and a downloadable version of a vid? Where the streaming vid is of a lower quality so that it would stream properly without too many buffering interruptions? And isn't the downloadable video much larger? So large in fact that it might take a broadband user sometimes more than an hour to download?

Hmmm...like for example, you mentioned on another thread that most of your vids are encoded at 1000kbps+ and even though this is totally fine for a downloadable video, it couldn't possible be streamed, could it? even a broadband user will experience major buffering delays, no?

I don't know, maybe i don't understand this whole streaming thing yet. I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify this for me. Thanks



btw, Slade....below is a screen cap of how i'd like to encode my vids at the high end. what do you think? i think i'm pretty happy with the result. that's about 65MB for a 10 min video eeeeeeeekkk :cry:

I think the key is to play around with the settings for as long as possible and see what works for your type of content. For example, I've found that I can cut our file sizes in half by adding loads of extra compression on our outdoor scenes, and they look the same as before - but I can't do that with indoor scenes. I can really compress the sound on music, but not interviews.

I'm no expert, but a process of trial and error has got good results. Our films have pretty small file sizes compared to other sites, but I think the quality is as good.

65mb for a 10 minute video doesn't seem like a huge problem - are you concerned about bandwidth or ???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basschick

65mb for a 10 minute video doesn't seem like a huge problem - are you concerned about bandwidth or ???

---

no, i don't care about bandwidth. i'm just wondering if a video of this size can be streamed to someone with a broadband connection. or would there be too many buffering delays due to the large size?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GPallan

no, i don't care about bandwidth. i'm just wondering if a video of this size can be streamed to someone with a broadband connection. or would there be too many buffering delays due to the large size?

---

I've never heard of any real problem from those with true bandwidth abilities (1.5 meg down or more) on streaming big videos..sure, the larger the vid is, the larger it will take to start..the buffering process. But again, my experience has been if you are showing something GOOD, most surfers will wait as long as it's not more than a minute or so to buffer. And unless you have a HUGE amount of traffic and/or a pretty slow server streaming the vids will stream pretty good..even a 100 meg file.

Possible idea..why not just make a 20 second demo of what they can DOWNLOAD..and that way the demo can be the same size and quality as the video they download without using up much bandwidth on streaming. (I mean, if the video is hot, most people are going to want it on their hard drive!).

Hm..but it seems you are offering streaming vids only..well, hey, what I said above still goes though. Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GPallan

Hey Slade. Wow thanks man. that's a lot of help.

Hmmm...like for example, you mentioned on another thread that most of your vids are encoded at 1000kbps+ and even though this is totally fine for a downloadable video, it couldn't possible be streamed, could it? even a broadband user will experience major buffering delays, no?

I don't know, maybe i don't understand this whole streaming thing yet. I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify this for me. Thanks



btw, Slade....below is a screen cap of how i'd like to encode my vids at the high end. what do you think? i think i'm pretty happy with the result. that's about 65MB for a 10 min video eeeeeeeekkk :cry:

---

Well, I can't render a judgement there until I saw the video to be honest. But if you are just talking about any streaming difficulties..there shouldn't be if your server is top notch.

And, depending on what the surfer uses, browser, or 3rd party utility, they can choose to stream AND download the SAME vid at the same time. Watch it as they download it.

why not offer them clips OR the full video? that way, if the full video is a problem, the members have an option.

a lot of member sites i've reviewed or worked on have videos 125mb or bigger - sometimes much bigger - and the members aren't complaining.