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Hey folks,
Just wondering... are there are any up and, er, cumming Webmasters out there who you would like to single out as being someone who is doing something fresh and unique?
I'm doing a story for AVN Online, and could use some more suggestions.
Send 'em on in if you'd like. All sugestions would be greatly appreciated!
Ken
You know, i could spurt off a list of names for you to write about all of which would be valid suggestions but, at the same time, i feel that EVERY webmaster is up and coming and deserves recognition, any webmaster who is able to roll with the constant challenges that the industry has thrown at it will show they have what it takes to succeed.
Actually, thinking about it, a better article, imho, would be about those webmasters who ARENT going to 'make it' and the reasons why, the first on the list being they dont look at this a serious business.
Anyone can become a webmaster and also be perceived as being successfull but, perception is all it comes down to, those individuals and companies that *I* perceive as being a success others wont just as those that i dont perceive as beig successfull others will.
Just because somebody is 'well known' does that make them successfull in business or just a good self promoter?
Likewise, i know of several people who you never and i do mean never, post on a board, go to a show or even interact with others in the adult industry and they are literally making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.
Success ultimately, is in the eye of the beholder $0.02
Regards,
Lee
Lee,
This was an opportunity for you to lift up some of the webmasters who have help you make GWW the success it is. It's too bad you chose to turn this into a negative.
Michael
Michael,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
Perhaps you missed this part of my post:
No single person has made GWW a success, its been a success because of the ENTIRE community, not just one or two people.Quote:
EVERY webmaster is up and coming and deserves recognition
I dont see how thats a negative :eek:
Regards,
Lee
Disagree Michael. Lee handled it right. Recommendations of up and coming webmasters that are part of this community by the owners and moderators of this board would reek of favoritism and or payoff for advertising with the site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
Those other than those in positions of authority on the board should make these recommendations.... while people like lee remain neutral or uplifting to many, or all in the community.
Lord, people, leave the politics out of it would you, and just say, "Hey, these guys turn me on!" and "This site rocks b/cuz of this!" It's not about game-playing. This is a chance for you to give some props to the webmasters who you feel are making a difference and who are out there doing something unique. It shouldn't turn into a "favoritism contest."
Ego... it's what's killing the porn business.
If you'd prefer, please send you suggestions to me PERSONALLY at kenknox@avnonline.com. That way you won't have to say anything in public and nobody will think you are showing favoritism to anyone.
Ken
LOL most of my freinds tell others to keep an eye on me but i dont think its for the same reasons :)
i also think lee handled it right. there are some guys here with great new sites, great ideas, and lots of talent.
ken, if you want to talk to someone with a story, talk to JustMe from boyalley.com. he has a new project with a LOT of stories, and he really put some effort into it.
also talk to Buck! he's a one-of-a-kind person - a female to male transsexual pornstar with two sites and a great attitude who was also just displaced (thank goodness he's okay!!!) by katrina from his home and business in new orleans, so he'll have some stories for ya.
DAMN you BS why'd you have to go and tell him that Buck is a female to male transexual ? Why didn't you just let him find out for himself, like I did, by mistankingly thinking he was a male to female transexual and complimenting him on his perfectly realistic looking pussy? :high:Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
And perhaps you missed the point of MY post, guy. I'm not writing a story about GayWideWebmasters or about a community. I'm writing a story about "10 Webmasters to Keep Your Eye On." I don't have the space--nor the time--to write an entire treatise on an entire community. I'm soliciting the opinions of a community of likeminded, supposedly cool webmasters to try and get some suggestions for who are some really cool up-and-coming talents within their community.
And I totally disagree with you. People aren't always successful b/cuz of their participation in a community. Sometimes they are just successful b/cuz they were smart and talented of their own accord. Those are the people I am looking to write about.
Leave the acceptance speeches about "all the people who have helped me get to where I am" to the Oscar winners.
LOL!
Respectfully,
Ken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
Trust me; I knew already. :)
Yep i understood that from your first post ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
This is where i think we're running in to problems, in my view EVERYONE on GWW has their own talents which should be realized, as we are a community, singling out 10 of our community members just wouldnt feel right because to me, thats kind of like a slap in the face to the thousands of other community members who i dont mention, even though they are all worthy of praise and a watchfull eye :)Quote:
I'm soliciting the opinions of a community of likeminded, supposedly cool webmasters to try and get some suggestions for who are some really cool up-and-coming talents within their community.
As i mentioned above, success and /or talent is what someone perceives it to be, therefore, someone who *I* may think is talented, someone else may not. Perhaps if you define 'talented' for us it would give us a better understanding of the type of people you want us to suggest to you for your peice in AVN :)
Isnt that what i said in my first post? LOLQuote:
And I totally disagree with you. People aren't always successful b/cuz of their participation in a community. Sometimes they are just successful b/cuz they were smart and talented of their own accord. Those are the people I am looking to write about.
To quote your remark earlier in this thread:
Yet you are wanting us to inflate someone's ego by suggesting them or deflate someone's ego by not doing ;)Quote:
Ego... it's what's killing the porn business.
Regards,
Lee
Lee,
Anyone suggested for this story doesn't have to be on GWW. It can be from the entire spectrum of Internet adult. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone's suggestions to be limited to who they've met here.
I think we can safely start with the assumption that "Everyone on this site is talented and contributes something amazing to the webmaster community, but here are the ones I think are up to something very unique and bold."
The webmaster's site should have been up for no more than 1 year, and they should be fairly new to the scene, but should have made an impression in that time.
Obviously, it is MY job to pick out--from all the suggestions I receive--which webmasters I am going to write about, based on MY opinion of which ones I think are doing the most daring and interesting work. I don't have a problem doing this, so it takes the burden of responsibility out of your hands. :)
Look, I'm PRESS. This is what we do. This is how it works. This is my job. I can't go into a village I've been assigned to do a story on and say "I want to write about ALL of you b/cuz you're all just so damned cool." I have to pick out the ones who I think are the "most fascinating" and who will give the best copy, and who may not have received as much coverage as one of their other community members. I mean, honestly, WHO DOES THAT? And in a lot of those situations, journalists rely on the tips they get from community members to decide who they wish to report on.
Anyway, I can see that I'm running into brick walls here, so let's just forget it.
Ken
Couple sites/programs I see that really have their shit together and are busting their butts to really develop their businesses and that I'd expect to see a great deal from in the near future:
CorbinFisher - already, their flagship site is one of the biggest gay adult membership sites online, and this is after about a year and a half in the business. I know they're set to launch some more sites soon and aren't resting on their laurels, so to speak. Despite their first site already being enough to earn the envy of a great many people, they're looking to go beyond even that.
BelAmi - I know John Tyler over at BelAmi is extremely active and busy in developing BelAmi beyond where it's already at and what it's already achieved. Again, that's a company that could easily just sit back and do business as usual. But with their VOD developments, video sales expansion, network of websites and deals they're striking with companies around the industry - as well as their moves in to offline and even mainstream businesses - we'll be seeing a lot more from them very soon.
BoyFunk - They've had a relatively small twink pay site up for a good while now and it's performed extremely well in such a competitive field. I started promoting them on one of my free sites a couple years ago and have been watching them grow ever since. Developing and expanding a big DVD sales business, setting up and preparing to launch a number of other websites, and spending many months refining what will most likely be a pretty kickass sponsor program.
ElixisCash - I've spent a lot of time the last few weeks talking to the guys over there about where it is they want their site to go and what kinds of plans they have for their business. And it really impressed me how much thought they've put in to a firm and comprehensive business model. They're ready and willing to - and actively engaged in - invest the resources and energy in to developing their sites and programs, and that's always a welcome thing to see in this industry.
I don't doubt there was a time when just throwing a site online could set someone up to do quite well and make a good amount of money. But what I always see as the factor upon which so many don't make it in this biz is that they think those days still exist and head in to things without a clear cut business plan and the resources to put in to their project. I see in all those companies I've mentioned very sound business plans, the willingness to invest and apply resources and energy, original ideas, unique perspectives and the kinds of attitudes and approaches essential to enabling any business - whether one just starting up or looking to expand - to succeed.
THANK YOU, BRIAN!
Just what I was looking for.
:)
Ken
Should also state this: Would be nice to have someone suggest a website that is NOT one that features straight guys posing for the erotic enjoyment of gay men.
Aren't there any GAY-BASED sites out there operated by GAY webmasters that are funky, fresh and fun???
Ken
no problemo, ken!
i look forward to seein the article and whomever it is you profile in it!
Here are some cool newer sites that I personally enjoy, although the webmasters DON'T post on this board that I'm aware of. You could probably try contacting them through the sites themselves though. It's probably obvious from this I prefer 'ethnic' guys. ;)
http://www.latino-caliente.com
http://www.latinboyz.com
http://www.realboys4u.com
http://www.dominicanboys.com
Cheers
Hey Danny,
Thanx. I did, in fact, contact RealBoys4U.com, but haven't heard back from them.
:(
Ken
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
Right and sites promoting boys/twinks are fresh, funky & fun? Sounds/looks like business as usual. (not the RealBoys4U.com site, the agenda) Isn't that niche just as run down as the straight guy niche?Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
Promoting the worship of youth, while saying the Gay attraction to straight men is self loathing and dis-empowering is a big contradiction don't you think?
We have a BIG problem in the Gay community with the obsession of youth, and self loathing for being older. There is nothing worse then men in our community feeling dis-empowered, and washed up, because they're over 30.
I recommend http://www.menover30.com by the people at Pridebucks. They might not have the most "trendy" design but they are empowering those in our community to look at men over 30 as sexually attractive without having to fulfill the "Daddy" stereotype.
Good luck getting webmasters to cooperate with helping on such a story.
Nobody is going to start listing the true up and coming webmasters, their sites and the great new things they are doing since it turns willing copycats with resources into potential competition for everyone.
You could have made a post titled "Post ultra cool ideas that not many webmasters are doing!" Who is going to give up such info?
If anyone is going to be inspired by these new ideas, it'll be those who know of them and limited as much as possible to only them.
Squirt,Quote:
Right and sites promoting boys/twinks are fresh, funky & fun? Sounds/looks like business as usual. (not the RealBoys4U.com site, the agenda) Isn't that niche just as run down as the straight guy niche?
I really don't understand why everyone is being so harsh towards Ken in this thread. He asked for some opinions on fresh, funky sites and that's what I gave him. Anyways, I am under 30, so I'm not 'worshipping youth' if I like these sites but rather enjoying guys in my own age range...20 somethings. Plus the Latin and Dominican sites have content in niches that are beyond the standard 'white guy' thing, they are more original and difficult to find then another 'mature man' site. There are far too many white guy sites out there, which is why we appreciate those living in 'exotic' foreign countries willing to produce content of the kind of guys us 'ethnic lovers' enjoy, and I personally feel they deserve credit.
My 2 Yen, which won't even buy you a bread crumb in Japan. ;)
I dunno if Ken is really looking for new ideas. Contacting A run of the mill twink site to highlight as something "up and coming" and "funky, fresh and fun" seems odd. ( no offense meant to realboys4u.com , some say my sites are ordinary as well )Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
My concern has nothing to do with my business ( all is good, and will continue to be so ), my concern is the agenda I see forming and the stance that GayAvnonline is going to take with our community and the perception they are going to project of what is acceptable, "new" etc.
Nothing against Ken either. He's an intelligent guy who seems to put a lot of thought into what he's doing.
There's always going to be copycats and competition. Listing them here is not going to make a difference. What good is a gay webmaster community if we can't even share our opinions and ideas about sites we like? He's asking for ESTABLISHED SITES, not new ideas for people to steal.Quote:
Nobody is going to start listing the true up and coming webmasters, their sites and the great new things they are doing since it turns willing copycats with resources into potential competition for everyone.
Danny nothing wrong with what you like, or what anyone else likes, that's the point :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyz
I would never usually link to another board but the reasons I'm concerned of the way the discussion has shaped here
Thanks for the link Squirt. I think anyone who reads that will see what a thoughtful and intelligent guy Ken is, and AVN is lucky to have him working for them. I also think we at GWW should be greatful that he is thinking of us GWW community members to assist him in research for his articles. We should be trying to help him instead of getting into the political side of things, because ultimately it's just going to come down to one man's opinion anyways.
I would like to think the expression of ideas, thoughts and communication was the main mission for starting a gay community webmaster board such as this. While I can certainly understand Lee's refusal to single anyone out (as moderator), I see no reason why the rest of us shouldn't be offering a helping hand...after all, that's what 'community' is all about. :)
Ken said, amongst a lot of other things, "Why would any well-adjusted gay guy give a shit about what a straight guy does sexually anyway?" I don't know Ken. On this specific topic I feel that bringing shame to people for what turns them on sexually is a practice of exclusion, not inclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyz
It's difficult to stand by, as a producer of straight guy niche content, and watch myself, and my subscribers, be morally judged and called "dis-empowered" and "self loathing" for being a part of this niche.Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyz
Where have you seen anyone's expressions, thoughts or communication being suppressed? Everyone is doing very well at expressing themselves :francais:Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyz
There is nothing wrong with people having differing opinions in our community, it's what makes us who we are and there are no hard feelings toward Ken. We disagree on a subject, that's it. He's not a bad person for having a different opinion, nor am I. I shouldn't even have to explain that, we're all adults here.
All you need do is read through the first 10 pages or so of posts on this message board and you'll have plenty of candidates to write about.
I know of one guy that 10 years ago was very ill, almost living on the streets and now, has a very successful business going thanks to his initiative. But it's too incredible for people to believe it to be true.
That's what I would look for. Not for who has the "best design" or the "best niche" idea..but those that never gave up..or now are NOT giving up and have not only got their foot in the front door, they damn well kicked the door open with their presence on the net.
It's time to hear more about the "little guy" that's making a difference in today's homoerotic world.
No offense guys, but I think you're missing the point and this thread is getting way off subject. He was just asking for some fresh and upcoming sites we thought deserved mention...that's what this thread was about and I think that's what should be in it. If you're going to help him out and post links to some sites that you think deserve to be written about, post the URL's and say why you think they are worthy. We shouldn't be bringing posts in from other threads on different boards here, or talking about what we think his article should be about, that's not what he asked for.
Everyone here speaks their mind. What people post on other boards is part of their character and such references are valid and have always been used in board discussions since boards were created. Ironically your post telling us how we should post, and what we should say, is off topic as well. You should take your own advice :francais:Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyz
Squirt,Quote:
Everyone here speaks their mind. What people post on other boards is part of their character and such references are valid and have always been used in board discussions since boards were created. Ironically your post telling us how we should post, and what we should say, is off topic as well. You should take your own advice
You are right, you do have every right to spend your time flaming XXXpornwriter on every thread he posts. I have much more constructive things to do, so feel free to have the last word on this after my post.
Cheers,
Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyz
I don't need to have the last word. Feel free to post after you read this.
I haven't flames XXXpornwriter on every post, or any post. I think you misunderstand. Don't worry Danny I still love you and your sexy avatar muah! :love:
On a side note: Can you please PM me with your rates I have a project that your guys would be good for. Thanks! :thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
Yes, if that's all I was going to promote, young jumping-to-conclusions whippernsapper. :)
The article is going to be a mix between young and old, gay and straight (yes, I'm including straight niche sites; I realize there is a much bigger world beyond my own scope of opinion), and black, and even a mix of ethnicity as well.
Sheesh.
Btw, if you're looking for something a little different than your typical paysite, I suggest giving Michael (dzinerbear) and his Universal Bear site a look-see. It's a perfect example of AVS/AEN done right.
Funny you should mention Michael and his site. You just might have to check out the November issue of AVN Online... :)Quote:
Btw, if you're looking for something a little different than your typical paysite, I suggest giving Michael (dzinerbear) and his Universal Bear site a look-see. It's a perfect example of AVS/AEN done right.
I do not believe anyone who's site is unique and making bank would come out and show it off just to have it copied by everyone the next day :)
Unless they just want to show off and bask in the light of fame by being on AVN lol
I've never seen a webmaster who makes the cash come out and say this is how I do it. It's always only info on the surface of things with little hints here and there
By the way, definitely wanted to comment on this. The intent of the article was always to focus on the funky, fresh and fun aspect of what's out there, but I have to tell you, it's incredibly hard to come by a site that is indeed those things. Having only been in the adult Internet business for just under a year now, I can tell you that the trend seems to be to "follow the trend," in that I don't see an awful lot of true originality in the sites popping up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
This is not at all to belittle or criticize the work that anyone here is doing with their sites (I've checked out a lot of them, and they are, indeed, QUALITY sites worthy of the attention, and it's obvious you people are putting a lot of work and love into them), but man, it sure would be nice to see some really edgy, unique and NEW ideas popping up now and then. Hmmm, another straight niche site? Another military niche site? Another fraternity niche site? Shit, man, where are the punk rock tattooed metal head Asian boys playing "I dare you" in their back yard? The furry daddies who get off on balloon fetishes? Is there a GothicSluts.com of the gay community?
The article is just about finished, and, though it reports on seven webmasters who I feel are doing great work (and who have my respect), it is not, in fact, the article I set out to write. But I'm still proud of it. And you're all still really cool people!
But the question that I want to ask is: Is it that we're just content to rehash the stuff that everyone else is doing, or are there really no new ideas left?
Very good question and, the answer imho for the majority is YES.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
Most in the industry despite what they tell us, just want to make a quick buck, if they can do that replicting the success of others, they will do so.
This question may be an idea for another thread topic Ken :)
Regards,
Lee
I disagree completely! There are so many good ideas that are never developed and plenty of great niches that are totally ignored/under-exposed for whatever reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Several sites come to mind instantly http://www.workinmenmovies.com/ http://www.menatplay.net/index.html and http://www.sleepingmen.com/
I hope sites like these are just the tip of the iceberg because the market could sure use the variety.
That's just fear and fear does nothing to build up a community. xstr8guy and I have exactly the same content on our sites and we share openly. We trade links, we help one another, we ask one another for design or SEO advice, we even buy exclusive content together. If I can't get the sale, I'd rather he get it and I know he feels the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by jIgG
Besides when you hit number one in Google it's not like you're actually hiding. You're already there for the world to see. And anyway, it's not like I'm lurking in the shadows on these boards. I've got a big mouth and if I've got something to say or share, I usually do.
:)
Michael