EU Wants Shared Control of Internet - to possibly pan porn sites

The European Union insisted Friday that governments and the private sector must share the responsibility of overseeing the Internet, setting the stage for a showdown with the United States on the future of Internet governance.

A senior U.S. official reiterated Thursday that the country wants to remain the Internet's ultimate authority, rejecting calls in a United Nations meeting in Geneva for a U.N. body to take over.

EU spokesman Martin Selmayr said a new cooperation model was important "because the Internet is a global resource."

"The EU ... is very firm on this position," he added.

The Geneva talks were the last preparatory meeting before November's World Summit on the Information Society in Tunisia.

A stalemate over who should serve as the principal traffic cops for Internet routing and addressing could derail the summit, which aims to ensure a fair sharing of the Internet for the benefit of the whole world.

At issue is who would have ultimate authority over the Internet's master directories, which tell Web browsers and e-mail programs how to direct traffic.

That role has historically gone to the United States, which created the Internet as a Pentagon project and funded much of its early development. The U.S. Commerce Department has delegated much of that responsibility to a U.S.-based private organization with international board members, but Commerce ultimately retains veto power.

Some countries have been frustrated that the United States and European countries that got on the Internet first gobbled up most of the available addresses required for computers to connect, leaving developing nations with a limited supply to share.

They also want greater assurance that as they come to rely on the Internet more for governmental and other services, their plans won't get derailed by some future U.S. policy.

Policy decisions could at a stroke make all Web sites ending in a specific suffix essentially unreachable. Other decisions could affect the availability of domain names in non-English characters or ones dedicated to special interests such as pornography. FULL STORY

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How do you guys feel about this? Do you think this is a possibility in the future or a bunch of hot air? What's your take on this?

Fuck em!

It isn't all that difficult to set up some networked computers.

I say "screw em" and create a "Euro-net" and a "Japan-net" and a "Turkey-net."

That way everyone is responsible for their own shit, can give out their own addresses and if people want to interface with American websites they can. Or Not! if that's their choice.

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Originally Posted by Hamilton Steele

Fuck em!

It isn't all that difficult to set up some networked computers.

I say "screw em" and create a "Euro-net" and a "Japan-net" and a "Turkey-net."

That way everyone is responsible for their own shit, can give out their own addresses and if people want to interface with American websites they can. Or Not! if that's their choice.

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I agree.

America created the internet. We put the billions of dollars into the initial infrastructure, hardware, developement, technology. It doesn't belong to any Tom Dick & Harry who thinks they have a right to it. We should have put a copyright on the internet to avoid this kind of bullshit. It's their problem they didn't realize the value of the internet... typical.. we thought forward and created something that changed the world now everyone thinks they deserve to control it, it belongs to the world, not us, bullshit.

It started on our land, our satellites, our infrastructure, our people made it, it was our project, our idea, it's ours, not anyone elses. If we want to let them tap into it, we will. If they don't like the way we do things, make your own internet with your own naming authority. Anyone can do it, right?

This mentality is EXACTLY why pirating is so popular around the world. People think they deserve to get for free what all of us work our asses off for.

Just wait until the EU puts sanctions on the US for not handing it over.

US developed and deployed it, and the world jumped on.

Nothing is stopping the EU from creating their own internet and keeping 100% control over it.

actually it will be possible since decisions will be made by governments as opposed to having the ICANN board members do it, who for the most part are independant of government influences

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Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Just wait until the EU puts sanctions on the US for not handing it over.

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Yeah exactly it's like a carjacker fining you for not handing over your car LOL

They can build their own internet... the structure is there.. but by closing themselves off from the American dollar online, it wouldn't be worth it to them.

One thing that sucks about being American.. people hate you, until they want something from you, they get it, then hate you again. It's real hard for me to understand. Living overseas over 3 years now and I still don't understand this mentality completely.

It's like people want to be dependant on you, but independent.

I think countries should be independent, do their own thing, have their own identity, culture, etc. and not depend on other nations for so much. But when they do this they fall behind technologically, etc.

Being Americans we opened the internet to the world without condition, restrictions, fees, tariffs, etc. That wasn't good enough... now they want to take it from us.. ridiculous.

something else to mention - a lot of international web traffic goes over Level3's global network. I think UUNet/WorldCom/MCI are another one who have a global network as well

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Originally Posted by jIgG

something else to mention - a lot of international web traffic goes over Level3's global network. I think UUNet/WorldCom/MCI are another one who have a global network as well

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I'm really starting to wonder about America giving it's inventions to the world at this point.

Need I mention the telephone was an American invention?

Imagine if America was like China in the way it closes the doors to the outside world. Imagine only America having phones, cars, computers, internet. Where would the rest of the world be?

America is a land of immigrants.. we all come from somewhere else in the world, but we come to America to work towards common goals and ideals. What we create belongs to us. Like what the British create belong to them, the Irish, Japanese, etc. etc. Pretty simple really.

Well, when reading your posts, I noticed the information is quite false, it's not EU who tries to get shared Internet control, it is THE REST OF THE WORLD. Eu simply changed his position, not supporting US anymore.
If you need true information about it, just search for "EU Icann" in google news.
And the "shared control" means control under UN which gets most countries, not US-EU control:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...ge=1&pagePos=3

I think this is quite legitimate, since it is, for one country, the control of the network inside this country (computers, cables, infrastructures, etc).

When I read some reactions, that makes me think some people forgot how humankind grew and is developping.

Examples:

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I'm really starting to wonder about America giving it's inventions to the world at this point.
Need I mention the telephone was an American invention?

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So to your opinion, US should not have the right to use paper because Chinese invented it?
What about TV? Don't u think also that EU should control US TV networks, since it was invented by them?

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It started on our land, our satellites, our infrastructure, our people made it, it was our project, our idea, it's ours, not anyone elses.

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Or for a closer example of communication networks: postal networks. You're ot happy that US take it from someone else? You think it should have been controled by the government from who it started first? (probably UK?)
With what u said, British people could say exactly the same: "our people made it, it was our project, our idea, it's ours, not anyone elses" no?
Personaly, it seems to me so selfish!

I think that intenet network will have the same organisation: each country will be regulating its own network, but there will be an international harmonization for it to work well between countries.

So point is not to change anything on how US deal with US web, but how one country can deal with his own web, so the US shouldn't care about it.

Déjà vu

The E.U. can not even decide on who they want to play with, yet they think they can handle 'the net' ... LOL & a big PUHLEEZ!

Worry about what you already have on your plate and when you have eaten all your peas ... MAYBE it will be considered (NOT!).

But ofcourse the anti-americans & Bush haters will step away from the baseboards far enough to open their mouths and state how the ever so evil U.S.A. is already trying to control the world and blah blah Art Bell ... blah blah conspiracy ... blah blah The Backroom Boys Club (or what ever the conspiracy freaks, such as the chub M.Moore, are calling them this week).

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Originally Posted by Axel

I think that intenet network will have the same organisation: each country will be regulating its own network, but there will be an international harmonization for it to work well between countries.

So point is not to change anything on how US deal with US web, but how one country can deal with his own web, so the US shouldn't care about it.

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Yes we agree.

I'm glad you understand that it doesn't make sense for America to give control of our internal infrastructure, and internet, to a world body, just like the EU doesn't want us to have control of their structure.

Regarding modern television, it was invented by Vladimir Kosma Zworykin ( a Russian born American ) and Philo Taylor Farnsworth ( a Utah farm boy ) , as was the first television camera. SOURCE and no I don't think Americans created everything and the world owes us :high:

You just have to wonder at what point during invention is it the inventors right to give it to the world, or the worlds right to take it away. If the internet had a copyright, America could charge for anyone who uses it.

It will be interesting how this all works out as American corporations have started copy writing drugs, genes, and medical procedures, to protect what we've created, as have other countries.

The internet is headed towards segregation anyway. The true world wide web that we know today will not exist in 15 years.

As more and more people get online around the world, the more we are going to see mirroring of what happened here in the US. The internet was the wild west, and users liked that. Then shit hit the fan when ma and pa got online and become offended at how current members where using a tool with potential for clean, wholesome use.

It was and still is two sets of standards and morals butting heads.

You look at this from a world wide perspective, and you'll see why it's vital for the US to retain total control of what is ours.

Make other countries around the world create their own intranets, and then we'll turn ours into a US-only intranet also. That's exactly what I see happening over the next 15 years.

Of course, the world wide web will still exist right alongside this. Maybe in the form of a more advanced internet come then. But it will give countries the opportunity to regulate their own intranets, and citizens won't have to worry about being offended by someone else in another country unless they choose to get on the www... which could be regulated by the UN at that point.

.com and .net would be worldwide, and country code extensions would be limited to those in that country.

I really think this is going to all play out in a similar manner over time.

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Originally Posted by Matt 26z

As more and more people get online around the world, the more we are going to see mirroring of what happened here in the US. The internet was the wild west, and users liked that. Then shit hit the fan when ma and pa got online and become offended at how current members where using a tool with potential for clean, wholesome use.

It was and still is two sets of standards and morals butting heads..

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Don't forget that those in power are using porn to vilify the internet. Keep in mind the real reason those in power want control over the internet is because it is freedom of expression in it's purest form, and those in power have less control over those that can find truth instantly anywhere around the world. This is exactly the reason Blogging has become so popular.

Television show ratings are down, as are newspaper sales, and brick & mortar store sales. Those in power will do anything to get control of the masses again on the new frontier, they're all vying for power. It's pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I agree.

America created the internet. We put the billions of dollars into the initial infrastructure, hardware, developement, technology. It doesn't belong to any Tom Dick & Harry who thinks they have a right to it. We should have put a copyright on the internet to avoid this kind of bullshit. It's their problem they didn't realize the value of the internet... typical.. we thought forward and created something that changed the world now everyone thinks they deserve to control it, it belongs to the world, not us, bullshit.

It started on our land, our satellites, our infrastructure, our people made it, it was our project, our idea, it's ours, not anyone elses. If we want to let them tap into it, we will. If they don't like the way we do things, make your own internet with your own naming authority. Anyone can do it, right?

This mentality is EXACTLY why pirating is so popular around the world. People think they deserve to get for free what all of us work our asses off for.

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It is amazing at how we can share the same opinion but have completely different reasons for it.

I don't care about the Internet being a U.S.A invention. Protecting America isn't a priority for me.

My comment is "If they don't want to fucking share" SCREW EM!

Personally I'm sick and friggin tired of living in one country and still having to worry about if an American politician has a bad gas of farts.

IE: In Canada we have to strengthen our borders to safe guard America. Or Alberta can't possible sell beef to any other nation in the world. Because of the damn Free-Trade agreement. (Which Canada does it's best to honour but American views it only as a suggestion.)

But this isn't a slam against just the good old U.S.A.

I'm now living in France, the land of the bureaucrat and baguette.

Too much paperwork.
Too much regulation.
Too many Tabous with talent.

So my corporation is registered in Italy and my bank accounts are in England. And I go to Russia to film.

as I mentioned LEVEL3 and UUNet-WorldCOm-MCI are about the only two that have a global reach, that is - trans atlatic cables connecting the Americas and Europe and Asia.

Local, country specific networks are established already they are run by whatever the local ISPs are but in order for anyone to see lets say CNN.com that person's ISP must connect to the global network which very often involves using Level3 or MCI.

What could happen is just the internet becoming more fragmented and more expensive for lets say Germany's internet users to be able to reach American hosted web sites. Instead of them being able to stream video from CNN.com they'll have about 5-6KB/sec to load the pages and read text.

If what I've read is true Level3 and MCI and I think a few others much smaller players are the only ones who have the large, global, quality high-grade network with the capability to handle big traffic amounts.

So if US is forced to sede control to the UN and they start to fuck with the web and impose rules the big network players who are mostly US based could just raise their prices and make it more difficult for any country's internet infrastructure to connect to the outside internet world

I can't find a link to a blog post I believe it was or an interview with one of the ICANN members and why it's a bad idea to have the UN control it.

Now everything is decentralised but with the UN if things become centralised then the rules also become centralised. Everything becomes across the board even. All dos and don'ts will be the same no matter where in the world you are

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Regarding modern television, it was invented by Vladimir Kosma Zworykin ( a Russian born American ) and Philo Taylor Farnsworth ( a Utah farm boy ) , as was the first television camera. SOURCE and no I don't think Americans created everything and the world owes us

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Not really, it rather seems the fruit of several inventions:
http://inventors.about.com/library/i...n_timeline.htm

And there had been a television demonstration in Paris in 1900. Constantin Perskyi is the one who was the first to use the word "television" then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_Perskyi
And it was more than 20 years before Vladimir Zworykin patents his iconscope a TV camera tube.

So I guess we can say TV is a Russian invention. Could Russians ask for the control of US Tv as US is having for control of Russian web?

Yes, yes, I know, it's not a so clever idea... for the US, of course...

[QUOTE=Axel]Not really, it rather seems the fruit of several inventions:
http://inventors.about.com/library/i...n_timeline.htm

And there had been a television demonstration in Paris in 1900. Constantin Perskyi is the one who was the first to use the word "television" then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_Perskyi
And it was more than 20 years before Vladimir Zworykin patents his iconscope a TV camera tube.

So I guess we can say TV is a Russian invention. Could Russians ask for the control of US Tv as US is having for control of Russian web?QUOTE]

He's a Russian born American... as I stated in my post. You mean to say foreign born Americans aren't real Americans? Whateva

I guess RCA was pretty stupid to be paying royalties for television to Farsnworth since 1939 then eh? LOL

Dude if you're going to take the time to reply to a post I make with links...at least take the time to read the link I provide.

Also just google the patent number for television to see who invented it. Pretty simple

In the link I provided it explains it pretty well:

"Zworykin is usually credited as being the father of modern television. This was because the patent for the heart of the TV, the electron scanning tube, was first applied for by Zworykin in 1923, under the name of an iconoscope. The iconoscope was an electronic image scanner - essentially a primitive television camera. Farnsworth was the first of the two inventors to successfully demonstrate the transmission of television signals, which he did on September 7, 1927, using a scanning tube of his own design. Farnsworth received a patent for his electron scanning tube in 1930. Zworykin was not able to duplicate Farnsworth’s achievements until 1934 and his patent for a scanning tube was not issued until 1938. The truth of the matter is this, that while Zworykin applied for the patent for his iconoscope in 1923, the invention was not functional until some years later and all earlier efforts were of such poor quality that Westinghouse officials ordered him to work on something “more useful.”

In the late thirties, when RCA and Zworykin, who was now working for RCA, tried to claim rights to the essence of television, it became evident that Farnsworth held the priority patent in the technology. The president of RCA sought to control television the same way that they controlled radio and vowed that, “RCA earns royalties, it does not pay them,” and a 50 million dollar legal battle subsequently ensued.

In the height of the legal battle for patent priority, Farnsworth’s high school science teacher was subpoenaed and traveled to Washington to testify that as a 14 year old, Farnsworth had shared his ideas of his television scanning tube with his teacher.

With patent priority status ruled in favor of Farnsworth, RCA for the first time in its history, began paying royalties for television in 1939.

Philo Farnsworth was recently named one of TIME Magazine's 100 Greatest Scientists and Thinkers of the 20th Century. "

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Originally Posted by Axel

So I guess we can say TV is a Russian invention. Could Russians ask for the control of US Tv as US is having for control of Russian web?

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The inventing country of the TV (whoever it was) can't claim control over another countries TV programming since TV is not dependent upon the inventing country.

The US is not claiming control over a Russian-only internet or a France-only internet or an internet that France and Germany builds between each other.

However, it is my understanding that the US physically owns what makes the world wide internet possible. If a Russian looks at an Australian website, then American owned physical technology is involved.

Hi Squirt,

I know quite a lot about TV history too, and I can provide links too:

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He's a Russian born American... as I stated in my post. You mean to say foreign born Americans aren't real Americans? Whateva

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Vladimir Zworykin is born in Russia, studied in Russia and worked also in Russia. Yes, he worked also in the US, but that doesn't make him a US citizen!
See even what is writen on US FFC site: http://www.fcc.gov/omd/history/tv/1880-1929.html
"and Russian émigré Vladimir Zworkin, working for Westinghouse and later RCA"
émigré : it's a French word that means he is a foreigner, not a US citizen.

I also worked in the US: that doesn't make me an American... think about it.

In about.com site, it is said "Russian inventor, Vladimir Zworykin invented the cathode-ray tube" not Amercian inventor.
http://inventors.about.com/library/i...blzworykin.htm

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Dude if you're going to take the time to reply to a post I make with links...at least take the time to read the link I provide.

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I did, as you should have too:
"Television was not invented by a single inventor, instead many people working together and alone, contributed to the evolution of TV."
from http://inventors.about.com/library/i...n_timeline.htm

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Originally Posted by Axel

Vladimir Zworykin is born in Russia, studied in Russia and worked also in Russia. Yes, he worked also in the US, but that doesn't make him a US citizen!

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Vladimir Zworykin was a U.S. citizen. Deal with it

"Zworykin served during World War I in the Russian Signal Corps. In 1916 Zworykin married Tatiana Vasilieff (later they were divorced) and they had two children. Rosing disappeared during the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917. Soon Zworykin also decided to leave Russia for the United States. He emigrated to the United States in 1919 and became a naturalized citizen in 1924. " source


"Zworykin decided to leave Russia for the United States in 1919" source

"In 1926 he received a Ph.D from the University of Pittsburgh." source

"In 1924, Zworykin became a naturalized citizen of the United States." source

During his American Ph.D education in 1923 is when he demonstrated the first crude television with his employers at Westinghouse and put in a patent for the television. He then got a job at RCA where they funded over $50,000,000 to create the modern television.

I agree with jIgG and Matt.. I think the internet will fragment for EXACTLY the reason this thread keeps getting sidetracked... people bitching about who did what and who owns what. I think we should have a separate internet and share only with our allies... let the French, Russians, China etc continue along their separatist paths and see what they come up with.

I think the world is far to open and connected these days.. to many people with different ideals clashing , bombing, etc. Let the middle east be. Let Russia be, let china be. We should focus on ourselves and bettering our lives before we attempt to bring the world up to speed technologically.

I invented Post-it notes

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Originally Posted by Happysucks

I invented Post-it notes

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A brilliant use of your pre cum!

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I agree with jIgG and Matt.. I think the internet will fragment for EXACTLY the reason this thread keeps getting sidetracked... people bitching about who did what and who owns what. I think we should have a separate internet and share only with our allies... let the French, Russians, China etc continue along their separatist paths and see what they come up with.

I think the world is far to open and connected these days.. to many people with different ideals clashing , bombing, etc. Let the middle east be. Let Russia be, let china be. We should focus on ourselves and bettering our lives before we attempt to bring the world up to speed technologically.

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Now Geeezzz,

If we don't continue to "Open up" the world. I will never be able to purchase Kraft Dinner in France. And my cravings for Kraft Dinner are legendary, even amoungst Newfoundlanders.

"H'y B'ys, do't be gett'n in da we-ay of a Newfie nd 'is Kraft Dinn'r!!!
Especially if he be one ov dem Acadie Newfs. -

Da's rares s'ya knows n str-ah-nge. Once I done's wat-sh one-of-er-em eat a seal flipper pie wit's kat-sup-s on er. An dat iz str-ah-nge"