Rapidshare vs. password trade

Recently found a list of almost each and every Sean Cody video on one of the password forums, they were all uploaded on rapidshare and shared to thousands of people... only the post on that forum had over 1,800 views...

So... you can somewhat fight password trading sites, by better protection, but how do you fight someone who buys your 3 day trial or 1 month membership, goes inside and downloads everything you have and posts it this way....

There were actually over 100 videos... I could post the links here, but that would be sharing

3 simple letters can take care of that... DRM

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

3 simple letters can take care of that... DRM

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Indeed, thats something we'll be using once we have our first exclusive content site next year the problem with DRM is that some members dont like it because they need to remain a member to view the movies.

Thats a trade-off im willing to make though, if they dont like it and want to watch the movies whenever they want to, they can buy the DVDs lol

Regards,

Lee

Sorry, what exactly does that mean to a surfer?DRM

Digital Rights Management (DRM) is a type of copy protection for videos. A surfer can only view downloaded videos while there membership is active. Once they are no longer a member, they videos will not play.

what... basically he can't upload that video and share with others? Along with that password?

i read a lot about this sort of protection (didn't know it was called DRM) and most of the surfers don't like it... especially there was one thread on Justusboys forum where they show quite an anger regarding sites that use it...

I could be wrong, but I thought DRM also allowed for an 'expiry' date to be encoded into the key, so that even if they remained a member the program locked up after 'x' number of days.

Each video receives a unique key to the surfer, which automatically expires. Unless I am thinking of some other program.

Ian

I'm conflicted over DRM myself. As a surfer, I hate it. But if surfers didn't insist on file sharing, there would be no need for such protection.

Companies like Sean Cody, Randy Blue, Fratmen.tv spend a fortune producing content. It is in their best interest to protect their media from being given away for free all over the internet. Sure, it may piss surfers off. But if they want the content, they will have to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

I could be wrong, but I thought DRM also allowed for an 'expiry' date to be encoded into the key, so that even if they remained a member the program locked up after 'x' number of days.

Each video receives a unique key to the surfer, which automatically expires. Unless I am thinking of some other program.

Ian

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Oh, you are probably correct. But as long as the surfer is a member they could still re-download the expired video.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Oh, you are probably correct. But as long as the surfer is a member they could still re-download the expired video.

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True, but depending on the expiry date, least the company would still be getting a revenue, and it'd be a bitch to share a new video key every 7 days or whatever the expiry date was set at... wouldn't cut out the sharing for certain, but could curtail it at least. I think there are other parameters as well, such as checking for computer IDs that make it difficult to transfer the file to another computer and still use the key. That would (if my memory is right) make it really hard to trade keys online.. as the DRM program would check for computer ID and nulify the key if the check didn't pass..

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

True, but depending on the expiry date, least the company would still be getting a revenue, and it'd be a bitch to share a new video key every 7 days or whatever the expiry date was set at... wouldn't cut out the sharing for certain, but could curtail it at least. I think there are other parameters as well, such as checking for computer IDs that make it difficult to transfer the file to another computer and still use the key. That would (if my memory is right) make it really hard to trade keys online.. as the DRM program would check for computer ID and nulify the key if the check didn't pass..

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I was just going to ask if this "key" then would be easily traded with the file itself too. But if it's computer specific..would make it heck if you say wanted to move it to your laptop to take with you somewhere and then view the vids.

I think it is very helpful to have an attorney present at all times who is quite willing to write a letter to the "offending" hosts of these pw sites. I've seen these letters to be pretty effective to getting stuff removed asap!

Of course the two major problems with that are:
1)You have to find ALL places where this is going on.
2)Good luck with getting people outside of the U.S. to worry about your attorney's letter.

While "file sharing" can be manipulated to help stimulate some great traffic for your sites if you do it the right way, it still remains a LARGE problem for unregulated sharing.

Unfortunately there are those who've managed to find a way to get around DRM. Even sites that use it can expect to see their videos posted on RapidShare and P2P networks. Not in the numbers they were made available before, but they're being pirated still nonetheless.

I suppose the way to look at it is that whereas before DRM the instant you made a file available to members it'd make its way to the piracy networks and be all over the place in a matter of days, not it takes a bit longer for that to happen. And the run-of-the-mill copyright-infringers aren't able to get ahold of the files as easily. Those with the technical skills and knowledge, however, can steal them just as easily today as they could a few years ago, DRM notwithstanding.

things could have changed since i looked into it, but originally DRM was only available for WMV. also recently i reviewed a site that showed another problem - their DRM company went down (or i couldn't get there from here for some reason) and i was unable to play their videos till the next day.

i would imagine that any members who join and can't watch the videos will be cancelling and refunding the same night.

I have a client protecting exclusive content using DRM. Yes, Patti, you are correct, DRM is only available on wmv files. And yes, if the authentication server goes down then your members can be screwed until it comes back up.

The way it works is the video itself is protected by a DRM key so when you play the video, it checks to see if you already have a session with a valid license key (licenses are generally valid for 24 to 48 hours and are stored encoded by WMP). If you do not, then the user is prompted with a login box. The user then enters his login information for the site, the DRM software verifies against the current .htpasswd file and allows or denies it based on the membership status code received.

The main problem with DRM is that not everyone uses it, so surfers get pissy when they download a video and 2 weeks later when they are no longer a member they can no longer play the video. Or when they download a video, disconnect from the internet and then try to play the video for the first time. My client had to lower his monthly fee in order to compensate for this inconvenience, plus he put up a huge warning on his join page that stated they use DRM and what that meant to the surfer.

And yes, DRM can be broken, there are several hacks available that will chew away at the video using brute force until the right key is found. This may take a day to break per video, but honestly its amazing how much time these hackers will invest into a project like this in order to save $25 on a membership.

Hope this info helps! If you want further details please ask :)

cheers,
Luke

luke - that was a great and informative post. i hope people read the entire thing as it answers a lot of questions.

thanks!

I still have a question... so DRM is not 100% secure (ok,nothing is) and sites that use DRM have to lower their membership so that people don't get pissed off, but in the end members are still pissed since they can't have anything saved on their computers even after they cancel membership, and content owners are still pissed off because it DRM doesn't guarantee their files won't be shared and they have bunch load of pissed members...

God... so DRM yes, or DRM no?

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Originally Posted by dalimili

I still have a question... so DRM is not 100% secure (ok,nothing is) and sites that use DRM have to lower their membership so that people don't get pissed off, but in the end members are still pissed since they can't have anything saved on their computers even after they cancel membership, and content owners are still pissed off because it DRM doesn't guarantee their files won't be shared and they have bunch load of pissed members...

God... so DRM yes, or DRM no?

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Me..personally...NO!

Most all of the problems people mention about DRM in this thread can be overcome by the manner in which DRM is implemented. It is highly customizable and can be implemented and set to various specifications.

For example you can make a license last an hour or you can make it indefinite.

And as for the authentication server going down, that's a problem much like any other hosting issue. Get a reliable set up and it's no more a problem than any other aspect of running a site (which is to say, your regular host can go down and take your entire site down for a day but that prospect doesn't make us all unwilling to run websites, does it? It's something we do our best to avoid but always a possibility nonetheless).

for me, no drm. i like happy customers and quicktime videos.

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Originally Posted by dalimili

I still have a question... so DRM is not 100% secure (ok,nothing is) and sites that use DRM have to lower their membership so that people don't get pissed off, but in the end members are still pissed since they can't have anything saved on their computers even after they cancel membership, and content owners are still pissed off because it DRM doesn't guarantee their files won't be shared and they have bunch load of pissed members...

God... so DRM yes, or DRM no?

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So... what do you do to protect yourself from customers who only buy trial stuff and go inside with some software download all and don't come back until some other major update?

Do you think Limiting daily download goes well with customers? I mean, not limiting it to 10 MB ofcourse, but for instance 200 MB?

ANy other alternatives?

why not DRM the files based on usage? Say sharing between 5 PCs max and let the members keep it. Sort of what Apple's DRM is like, not sure if it can be done with video files.

I'm also interested in DRM protection, but I read it's possible remove DRM protection from .wmv files.

search in google: remove DRM protection

you can find some info about this.

you can either stop selling trials, limit each trial's downloads or offer trials with limited content unless they upgrade to monthly (this is what naughtyamerica does).

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Originally Posted by dalimili

So... what do you do to protect yourself from customers who only buy trial stuff and go inside with some software download all and don't come back until some other major update?

Do you think Limiting daily download goes well with customers? I mean, not limiting it to 10 MB ofcourse, but for instance 200 MB?

ANy other alternatives?

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basschick is absolutely right! I can not say this enough... just don't sell trials! I hate them!!! They almost never convert to full memberships... they are a waste of the affiliate's traffic and the paysite's content.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

basschick is absolutely right! I can not say this enough... just don't sell trials! I hate them!!! They almost never convert to full memberships... they are a waste of the affiliate's traffic and the paysite's content.

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For the site I'm currently working on I tought at first not to give trial option at all, but then I tought "what the heck" so I came out with rather high trial options of $19.95 for 7 days.

Since site is suppose to be updated daily, even if they download everything for that week, next week there will be 1200 more pix inside and 7 new videos..so either they'll keep buying 7 day trials or keep the monthly membership...

I don't know...

dalimili - what is the monthly price of your site?

and btw, reps at both paycom and ccbill told me that the high priced trials get a LOT of chargebacks.

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Originally Posted by basschick

dalimili - what is the monthly price of your site?

and btw, reps at both paycom and ccbill told me that the high priced trials get a LOT of chargebacks.

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$29.95... I didn't even think that lot of people would buy weekky trials at that high price , but that's exactly what I want, because there's only 10$ difference, so I tought they would then rather buy monthly membership...


I'm not really keen on giving trials, as my tour will be exact reflection of members pages, I figure they will know what they're buying and they won't need that trial... or am I wrong?

there's no point in a $19.95 trial. most people who will spend $19.95 will probably spend $29.95, but some people might resent having spend $19.95 for so short a time and charge back...

basschick, glad you liked my reply :)

dalimili, I think DRM has its place, if you offer top quality exclusive content its a fantastic alternative to only providing video streams. As long as the member keeps his membership active he can play any videos he downloaded from his own computer.

I would highly recommend dropping any trial periods. More and more site owners are doing this, when we dropped trials we had a very small decrease in the number of signups, however, we also had a huge increase in the number of surfers that rebilled too. It was like when they stuck around for the month and saw the site was good they decided to keep their membership for longer.

webnet, its not impossible to remove (or maybe the right term is defeat) DRM protection. Just for fun I did google "remove DRM protection" and the 2nd site that came up was "*** WINDOWS MEDIA COPY PROTECTION CRACKED ***" LOL!!!

cheers,
Luke

We did trials for a while, but people would join on the $8 trial, download all the content, and not renew, so now we don't offer trials any more. Actually, it significantly increased our income... we have a few less members, but a lot more cash, since all join at the one month level or higher.

As for DRM, it is *not* limited to WMV, it's just that at this moment, the most advanced DRM toolkits are the ones written based on the Windows Media DRM technology. There are several people offering DRM options for Quicktime, just none that are as sophisticated or mature as WMV; give it some time, and it will mature. Another option is Flash Video. Much harder to download the files, but requires a Macromedia streaming server to implement in volume.

As for arguments that customers don't like DRM... well, phooey. It depends on implementation, as others have said. What many sites are doing is allowing a license that can be unlocked for play on a single computer for an unlimited period. So anyone that joins can get any video and view it as long as they want, as long as they don't change computers. If they change computers, they re-join for a month, and reactivate all the videos they have (without downloading again). Most sensible people consider that reasonable.

There will never be an uncrackable DRM, but using a good DRM toolkit will certainly make it more difficult to trade rights-protected videos, and I think that's what matters.